Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

#501
#501
PowerSweep said:
I agree he has done a great job but sparty aint a historically at that level...ut's peers in the top 15(I would rank them 10th) are bama ga fla okla texas usc nd ohst mich pennst fsu nebraska..maybe throw aub lsu mia in there if you wanna be generous
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Tennessee may be historically a top 10-15 program, looked like anything but lately. The coaching carousel has been the biggest deal, bad hires can kill a program. We weren't far from life support. It was going to take a slow steady pace to get it back. Could have come this year with a couple we let get away. This is the best team we've had despite record since 2007, which i don't think was all that great a team. A lucky team really.
 
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#502
#502
ntxVOL said:
I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree. Our downfall began with Kiffin slithering away in the night, just 3 weeks before NSD. We would never have hired Dooley if not for that. He left us with just a few days to find a coach and few choices. We had little choice but to give that coach 3 yrs.

FYI, For the 2010 season we had less than 80 scholarship players after Dooley put 3 walk-ons on scholarship.
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And Kiffin landed 30 guys at SC. We would've had solid to great class and it wouldn't have been filled with the last minute guys Dooley grabbed that didn't qualify.
 
#503
#503
The Vols have their best team right now since the heyday of Fulmer. Jones built that, practically from scratch. The worse thing that could happen to the program is that somebody important start listening to the bellyachers and whiners who seem to have nothing better to do. Butch isn't perfect, but he's a helluva lot better than what we had. I wasn't happy about how we let the Oklahoma and Florida games slip through our fingers, but I'm more than satisfied with the progress Butch has made.
 
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#504
#504
think ofsome of the coaches that took over "dumpster fires" that were successful...holtz stoops carroll harbaugh(apparently) saban...it doesnt take more than a couple of years...
 
#505
#505
madbamahater said:
Realistically in year 3 a team should be showing great progress and winning. This team LOOKS to be heading toward that.

By year 4/5 he should be heavily in the mix in the East and SHOULD be and looks like he COULD be.

With the unique horrible shape UT was in through the Dooley years, Butch is right, it may take 6/7 years to fully overcome all of that.

I would have said 5/6 years. But 6/7 is not really a stretch.....

Any reasonably minded person who would have told me that Butch could finish year 3 with 9 wins (including bowl) when he was hired after Dooley, I would have been pleased.

I think it is extremely crucial he wins out. That will be tough to do. Winning out for any team is tough. Even the Alabamas and Ohio States of the world.

I still think 2017 will be the year UT is a solid contender for the SEC. It MAY happen in 2016. But, that is too soon. I say too soon because I don't THINK they can win the league next year. Hope but don't think. Fire Butch if not? Hell no. Hot seat if he wins 7/8 games in 2016? Probably. He will have a stacked and experienced and hungry team next year. 9 regular season wins needs to be the minimum expectation in 2016.....
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We were a few bad play calls and mis-managed games away from being in driver seat of the east
 
#506
#506
PowerSweep said:
think of the coaches that took over "dumpster fires"...holtz stoops carroll harbaugh saban...it doesnt take more than a couple of years...
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Most of those were nowhere close to dumpster fires. In fact, most were already in decent to good shape.
 
#507
#507
ntxVOL said:
I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree. Our downfall began with Kiffin slithering away in the night, just 3 weeks before NSD. We would never have hired Dooley if not for that. He left us with just a few days to find a coach and few choices. We little choice but to give that coach 3 yrs.

FYI, For the 2010 season we had less than 80 scholarship players after Dooley put 3 walk-ons on scholarship.
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We all have our opinion on this. But it did start with Fulmer. If it hadn't then he would have never been fired. Kiffin should have never been hired and that is on Hamilton. But to Lane's credit he had one of the best recruiting staff's ever assembled at TN then throw in him bringing his Daddy in who was one of the best NFL DC's around. But he had no clue how to stop spread offense's. But Lane should never have been hired to follow Fulmer. My only issue with Kiffin was how he left and his recruiting violations. Then Hamilton follows that bad hire up with one 3 times as bad. Dooley was as lazy of a HC that you will ever see. At least with Lane we all knew what we were getting. Dooley had us fooled the first 2 years then his recruiting tactics and the way he treated everyone started coming out. He single handedly burned so many bridges with HS coach's,especially in TN and in GA. But Fulmer's decline in recruiting was his downfall. Then throw in Cut leaving and making the worst possible OC hire he could have made. If I knew my coaching job was in jeopardy there is no way I hire an OC that runs an offense that is the exact opposite of the type of offensive players you have. And Dooley did the exact same thing except on the defensive side. But Cut leaving was the absolute worst thing for Fulmer.
 
#508
#508
PowerSweep said:
think of the coaches that took over "dumpster fires"...holtz stoops carroll harbaugh saban...it doesnt take more than a couple of years...
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He dropped a couple he should have won. That's how i look at it. The play calling was head scratching conservative for the first 5 games. That's on them. Happens again next year i'd say Butch isn't the guy, it'd be pretty obvious at that point.
 
#509
#509
Vandy had all those losing seasons with less talent and CJF came in:
Yr 1= 6-7
Yr 2= 9-4
Yr 3= 9-4
 
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#510
#510
VFL-82-JP said:
If I'm a 4* or 5* recruit, and I see that Tennessee came within a cat's whisker of beating both OK and FL, the first thing I'm thinking to myself is: hey, if I were there, I could make up that difference myself. All they need is me, and the Vols are winning championships!"

So I don't think close losses to really good programs are the huge negative message you maybe think they are.

I do agree with you that winning a good bowl game helps with recruiting. Bowl season is special that way.

Go Vols!
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I have 3 teenagers and believe me they don't think like that now days
 
#511
#511
KBVol said:
Sorry Daj, just don't believe it.

Also, on another note, if Tennessee was 7-1 right now, with the same exact roster and circumstances that CHM is dealing with, and was sitting in the SECEast catbird seat and was guaranteed a spot in the SECCG game right now, in year 3 mind you.....and I came on here and said "meh...nothing to see here, because any one of at least 100 other college football coaches in the country could do what Jones is doing right now".......Oh my dear God and all that is holy the unmitigated ish I would catch. I'd be called every name in the book, be told I wasn't a real fan, be told to go root for any other team in the country other than Tennessee.
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Hard to imagine that going over well.
 
#512
#512
Cartervol said:
Tennessee may be historically a top 10-15 program, looked like anything but lately. The coaching carousel has been the biggest deal, bad hires can kill a program. We weren't far from life support. It was going to take a slow steady pace to get it back. Could have come this year with a couple we let get away. This is the best team we've had despite record since 2007, which i don't think was all that great a team. A lucky team really.
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OU was a mess before stoops...usc before carroll...nd before holtz...etc...if a coach is gonna succeed the state of the program when he takes over a great program has no impact on him winning big by yr 3. If it did there'd be lots of examples. There aren't.
 
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#513
#513
PowerSweep said:
OU was a mess before stoops...usc before carroll...nd before holtz...etc...if a coach is gonna succeed the state of the program when he takes over a great program has no impact on him winning big by yr 3. If it did there'd be lots of examples. There aren't.
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So what is your point. You just trolling or what. It's pretty obvious Tennessee is a better team this year than last.
 
#514
#514
Dooley wasn't exactly recruiting the best of the best either. Sun Belt talent doesn't fair well in the SEC. Butch has just about turned this whole roster over. Doesn't excuse some coaching blunders early this year but it wasn't a easy place to come in and do great things quickly. Only a couple of those guys you mentioned would do much better with how it was.
 
#515
#515
VFL-82-JP said:
Most of those were nowhere close to dumpster fires. In fact, most were already in decent to good shape.
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bama lost 24 games in 4 yrs under shula, ou lost 33 games in the 5 yrs before stoops, usc lost 29 games in the 5 yrs before carroll, michigan 18 losses in 3 yrs, and nd under faust was a disaster...how did they do? carroll nat'l title yr 2, saban #6 yr 2 natl title yr 3, holtz nat'l title yr 3, stoops natl title yr 2...

where are the coaches that take over historical powers and have a slow but steady 6-7 yr build?
 
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#516
#516
Cartervol said:
So what is your point. You just trolling or what. It's pretty obvious Tennessee is a better team this year than last.
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I guess my point is that the idea that it takes 6-7 yrs to build a program at a place like tennessee is absurd and can't be factually supported..no more, no less. Clearly we are getting better.
 
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#517
#517
bowlinggreenvol said:
UF needed two FCS transfers to even have a serviceable OL.
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Don't bring that up....and don't mention the RB turned WR Powell because they were so thin at that position....and the true freshman WR Callaway, the kid who scored the game winner vs us. And don't mention the questions at QB question coming into the season...RSFr who had never made a start or Soph who completed less than half his passes last year. And losing their best DL to the NFL wasn't a big deal...neither were their injuries at linebacker. Nope...all was well with the team that was so immensely talented that they were picked to finish 5th in the SECEast and received 4 total votes in the AP poll and 2 total votes in the Coaches Poll.....which was less than 10 other SEC teams. Just because they fired their coach due his consistent lack of success there doesn't mean everything wasn't in tiptop shape....why, I bet some of these guys on here had Florida in the SECCG and 4 team playoff from day 1 of the preseason.
 
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#518
#518
jasonvol18 said:
We all have our opinion on this. But it did start with Fulmer. If it hadn't then he would have never been fired. Kiffin should have never been hired and that is on Hamilton. But to Lane's credit he had one of the best recruiting staff's ever assembled at TN then throw in him bringing his Daddy in who was one of the best NFL DC's around. But he had no clue how to stop spread offense's. But Lane should never have been hired to follow Fulmer. My only issue with Kiffin was how he left and his recruiting violations. Then Hamilton follows that bad hire up with one 3 times as bad. Dooley was as lazy of a HC that you will ever see. At least with Lane we all knew what we were getting. Dooley had us fooled the first 2 years then his recruiting tactics and the way he treated everyone started coming out. He single handedly burned so many bridges with HS coach's,especially in TN and in GA. But Fulmer's decline in recruiting was his downfall. Then throw in Cut leaving and making the worst possible OC hire he could have made. If I knew my coaching job was in jeopardy there is no way I hire an OC that runs an offense that is the exact opposite of the type of offensive players you have. And Dooley did the exact same thing except on the defensive side. But Cut leaving was the absolute worst thing for Fulmer.
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OK, I agree that our downfall began with Fulmer. Even if Kiffin had stayed, the 2010 team was not going to be very good and that's on Fulmer. Kiffin stabbed us in the back and destroyed any chance of getting the program back to prominence quickly. The Dooley hire is on him as much as anyone IMO.
 
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#519
#519
To argue Florida was stacked with talent is crazy, they're just two years removed from losing to Georgia southern. GEORGIA FREAKING SOUTHERN!! And now they're in the seccg. That's has everything to do with coaching.
 
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#520
#520
PowerSweep said:
OU was a mess before stoops...usc before carroll...nd before holtz...etc...if a coach is gonna succeed the state of the program when he takes over a great program has no impact on him winning big by yr 3. If it did there'd be lots of examples. There aren't.
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None of those teams are in the SEC. I would even argue that Fulmer's best teams would struggle to compete in today's SEC. Just seems like the season is longer and much more of a grind than in the past.
 
#521
#521
Cartervol said:
He dropped a couple he should have won. That's how i look at it. The play calling was head scratching conservative for the first 5 games. That's on them. Happens again next year i'd say Butch isn't the guy, it'd be pretty obvious at that point.
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I tend to agree. Next years schedule really sets up for a really good year. None of our OOC games will be against ranked teams and should win all 4. UK,Vandy and SCe should be 3 wins so that is 7 right there. Throw in having Ala,UF and Mizzou all at home there will be no excuse for not challenging for the East. If he loses all 4 games or goes 1-3 vs Ala,UF,UGA and Mizzou then I would lean towards him not being the guy. Getting it done Sun- Fri is a big part of it but at the end of the day if that doesn't lead to wins on Saturdays then he won't be here long. The last thing I want is another HC change so I hope to hell he is the man that gets us there.
 
#522
#522
Cartervol said:
Well he won't get 6 or 7 years if he goes butt tight conservative in all the meaningful early games again.. A couple of those OU and UF were total choke jobs..
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Did he say he wanted/needed/would get 6 or 7 years? Or are you (like others) talking out of your butt?
 
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#524
#524
ntxVOL said:
None of those teams are in the SEC. I would even argue that Fulmer's best teams would struggle to compete in today's SEC. Just seems like the season is longer and much more of a grind than in the past.
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that hardly matters...bama was a mess under shula, and obviously why he was fired..saban comes in goes 26-2 with a nat'l title his first 2 yrs..if my point is wrong, again I will ask..where are the successful coaches at traditional powrs like tennessee that didnt win big by yr 2-3?
 
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