AJ Johnson/Michael Williams Case (merged)

Why are so many on here ready to rush to judgement? Let the judicial process play out. I'm not saying AJ is innocent, I'm not saying he's guilty. I'm saying I don't know, and none of you do either.

I'm not saying he's guilty either, I'm just merely pointing out that from this point he will either be found guilty or not guilty, and to me NOT guilty doesn't mean he's innocent.

Had charges never been filed and he never was never arrested it would be much easier to make the claim that he's innocent.

Just my two cents.
 
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I'm not saying he's guilty either, I'm just merely pointing out that from this point he will either be found guilty or not guilty, and to me NOT guilty doesn't mean he's innocent.

Had charges never been filed and he never was never arrested it would be much easier to make the claim that he's innocent.

Just my two cents.

Then I hope you're never falsely accused of anything because even if you're found not guilty, it doesn't really mean anything.
 
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Is that TN state law that a prosecutor has to use a GJ? That's not how it works in every state, so I'm asking if that is specific to TN?

I'm not a lawyer, so I won't pretend expertise, but not every state requires a prosecutor to take a case to the GJ.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I am a LEO. I work in the federal system, and I was a LEO in Florida not Tennessee, so I'm not completely up to speed on criminal procedures in Tennesee, but most states are very similar.
 
I'm not a lawyer either, but I am a LEO. I work in the federal system, and I was a LEO in Florida not Tennessee, so I'm not completely up to speed on criminal procedures in Tennesee, but most states are very similar.

My understanding has always been DA's have several options to choose from. They can file charges with the court based off of the police report, they can take it to the GJ to decide if charges should be filed and what charges they should be, or they can choose not to file charges at all.

Maybe my understanding is wrong. If there are any lawyers present, please feel free to chime in(SDV).

A GJ doesn't determine guilt or innocence, that I know. They only determine if there is probable cause to file formal charges, and the rules of a GJ are far more lax than those of a formal trial proceeding.
 
Do you understand the concept of probable cause?

Yes, I do. In this case, probable cause could simply be sex occured in that room that night. Do you understand the concept of consensual sex? If the sex between AJ and the accuser was consensual, and he had no part after that, he is innocent. If it was consensual, he did not rape her. If he knew nothing of any acts that happenned after he left the room, he did not abet in raping her. If he did not rape her or abet in raping her, he is innocent.
 
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My understanding has always been DA's have several options to choose from. They can file charges with the court based off of the police report, they can take it to the GJ to decide if charges should be filed and what charges they should be, or they can choose not to file charges at all.

Maybe my understanding is wrong. If there are any lawyers present, please feel free to chime in(SDV).

A GJ doesn't determine guilt or innocence, that I know. They only determine if there is probable cause to file formal charges, and the rules of a GJ are far more lax than those of a formal trial proceeding.


In Florida that is true, the prosecution does have serveral options, they can file a direct information charing you with a crime. I'm not sure if that's true in Tennessee, the only way I have ever seen violations charged for a crime is by a probable cause warrentless arrest by the police or by a warrant after indictment.
 
Sorry to be crude, but the indictment reads like a gang bang. Of course, that could be consensual or non-consensual.

On second thought, there are other explanations for "aiding and abetting". My bad.
 
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Yes, I do. In this case, probable cause could simply be sex occured in that room that night. Do you understand the concept of consensual sex? If the sex between AJ and the accuser was consensual, and he had no part after that, he is innocent. If it was consensual, he did not rape her. If he knew nothing of any acts that happenned after he left the room, he did not abet in raping her. If he did not rape her or abet in raping her, he is innocent.

That's what I thought, your not really sure.

We don't know all the facts and circumstances involved all we know is that probable cause that a crime has been committed has been established by the prosecution.

That doesn't mean he's guilty, but rather it's more likely than not that a crime has been committed by those named in the indictment. It's the prosecution job to prove it. If they don't prove it in the eyes of jury then he is found NOT Guilty.
 
I'm not a lawyer either, but I am a LEO. I work in the federal system, and I was a LEO in Florida not Tennessee, so I'm not completely up to speed on criminal procedures in Tennesee, but most states are very similar.

Yeah well you also said AJ would get his bond money back, minus court fees, and that just ain't happening.
 
Yeah well you also said AJ would get his bond money back, minus court fees, and that just ain't happening.

It's depends on who posted the bond. If AJ put up his own money and is found not guilty they can't keep all of it. That's all I was getting trying to convey.
 
You think that I am being obtuse on purpose? I regret that you feel that way. However, it is apparent to me that you are a bit confused on the function and purpose of a Grand Jury and what determines probable cause. I am not debating the fairness of a Grand Jury, but rather describing it's purpose in our justice system.

Here is my understanding of probable cause after over 20 years of experience in law enforcement at the local, state and federal levels.

Probable Cause is when a reasonable person that is presented with the facts and circumstances regarding the alleged crime would conclude that it's more probable than not that a crime has been committed by the accused.

It is a strict legal standard that must be met before any arrest, search or seizure can occur. This is a requirement based upon the U.S. Constitution so all levels of law enforcement must adhere to this standard.

For the Grand Jury to indict they must conclude that probable causes exist that a crime was committed and who committed it. The Grand Jury is made up of common citizens who are considered to be reasonable. It does not consist of attorneys, prosecutors, or LEO's or Judges. There is a foreman who is appointed to lead them.

A law enforcement officer (LEO) can arrest someone without a warrant based solely upon probable cause. This is called a warrantless arrest and there is nothing a defense attorney can do to prevent this from happening, it's a fundamental concept of our justice system.

The arrest just like any Grand Jury indictment does NOT determine guilt, but rather that based on the facts and circumstances it is more probable than not that a crime has been committed by the person who was arrested.

However, most prosecutors prefer that a LEO not make a warrantless arrest and procede cautiously especially in high profile cases. Therefore, the prosecutor takes the case to a Grand Jury where it's the prosecutor's responsibility to present the facts and circumstances to the Grand Jury including any exculpatory evidence that may serve to exhonorate the defendant.

It is not intended to be a confrontational hearing but simply a fact finding event to determine probable cause. If the allegations are confirmed by the Grand Jury then the Forman returns a true bill for the indictment. Once the defendant is indicted for the crime an arrest warrant is issued and the defendant goes to jail where he is usually given a bond, and is released from jail while he awaits trial because he is still presumed to be innocent until guilt is proven or accepted by pleading guilty.

At this point, in the process the defendant is appointed or hires legal counsel if he doesn't already have one to prepare a defense. The vast majority of all defendants usually realize that thier best option is to eventually plea to something, and they usually do. However, some maintain thier innocence and go to trial.

As for your comments regarding the ability of a prosecutor to indict anything, in my experience, the Grand Jury is simply a formality because at this point the prosecution has enough evidence that in his opinion he can prove the case beyond any reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty and is willing to go to trial. So with that in mind the Grand Jury IS viewed by many to be just a rubber stamp because there is an abundance of evidence to determine probable cause.

I hope this helps.

Explain to me how what you said fundamentally differs from what you think I said, especially if youre not being obtuse on purpose.

I admit, I am no expert. Im just a final year law student, with several years of experience both as a clerk and intern in and around the Tennessee criminal system (federal as well, but that knowledge doesn't directly apply here).
 
Most people who are 35 or older as I am do not understand the dynamics of how these young people meet, date or otherwise. It is the most backward thing I have ever seen. Sexual expectations and the lack of respect for women in general is unbelievable. Girls have now become the aggressors in dating and sexual relationships. That's backwards from how things have ever been. It's not better.... its worse. Add in the music these kids listen to that glorifies sex and no respect for females... this is what happens. This young lady may truly be a victim. I know their are those girls who have this twisted sexual lifestyle of sex with whoever whenever. The only way to stop these assaults is thru education. These girls should never drink anything they don't open themselves. They should never place themselves in situations where they are alone with anyone at a party that they do not know well. Require respect and respect yourself. The girls have to take responsibility for actions that lead to these assaults. The boys who commit these assaults or rapes are criminals and should be prosecuted. But if the victim is intoxicated and alone with someone the do not know. The burden of proof falls not to the proof of if they had sex but if it was consensual. That is close to impossible in a setting where everyone is intoxicated. Like I said EDUCATION for the girls. The University used to had rape education program taught by UT Police. Not sure if that happens still.
 
Do you understand the concept of probable cause?

Do you understand the concept of circumstantial evidence. Just because he was indicted by a grand jury doesn't mean he is guilty and if he is found not guilty by a jury of his peers then you can try and rationalize his guilt all you want, he was found innocent by our system.
 
That's what I thought, your not really sure.

We don't know all the facts and circumstances involved all we know is that probable cause that a crime has been committed has been established by the prosecution.

That doesn't mean he's guilty, but rather it's more likely than not that a crime has been committed by those named in the indictment. It's the prosecution job to prove it. If they don't prove it in the eyes of jury then he is found NOT Guilty.

That's just a complete BS statement. Were you in the jury room? Did you hear the evidence presented? A GJ is a group of fallible human beings. You have no clue what they based their decision on, so to say it's "more likely than not" that AJ committed a crime is total crap.

It's apparent that you have already found him guilty. By your own statement, any other verdict simply means the prosecution failed. It can't be that AJ might actually be innocent.

Now here's the truth. It's possible AJ did it. If he did, throw the book at him. Punish him as severely as the law allows, which I personally don't think is harsh enough. It's possible he did it and he'll get away with it, at least in this lifetime. If that's the case, we'll never know the truth, because it's also possible he's innocent. It's possible he and his accuser had consensual sex. It's possible she's falsely accusing him out of vindictiveness. The truth is, a myriad of possibilities about what might have happenned that night exist, but only those directly involved know what actually happenned. The truth is that the rest of us will never know with certainty what did happen.

You seem eager and quick to judge with no factual evidence at your disposal. The fact that you're a LEO scares me.
 
I do take it with a grain of salt, I was merely discussing if it did exist. I honestly don't believe the police have such evidence in their possession, but we will have to wait until it comes out at trial.

If that evidence was brought before the DA, then he would have brought the charges himself. If there is no doubt by having hard evidence such as a video then it is the DA's responsibility to bring charges and have the defendant arrested.
 
That's just a complete BS statement. Were you in the jury room? Did you hear the evidence presented? A GJ is a group of fallible human beings. You have no clue what they based their decision on, so to say it's "more likely than not" that AJ committed a crime is total crap.

It's apparent that you have already found him guilty. By your own statement, any other verdict simply means the prosecution failed. It can't be that AJ might actually be innocent.

Now here's the truth. It's possible AJ did it. If he did, throw the book at him. Punish him as severely as the law allows, which I personally don't think is harsh enough. It's possible he did it and he'll get away with it, at least in this lifetime. If that's the case, we'll never know the truth, because it's also possible he's innocent. It's possible he and his accuser had consensual sex. It's possible she's falsely accusing him out of vindictiveness. The truth is, a myriad of possibilities about what might have happenned that night exist, but only those directly involved know what actually happenned. The truth is that the rest of us will never know with certainty what did happen.

You seem eager and quick to judge with no factual evidence at your disposal. The fact that you're a LEO scares me.

You're only defending said person because they're a Tennessee player. You wouldn't even acknowledge rape on the local scale. If you did, it's only because you live in a small town. As far as large cities go, do you read about rape daily? Probably not. They still happen daily. Do you defend all of those potential rapists? Nope. You sure don't. You playing the card about someone judging as you defend someone simply because they played for your team is bulls***. They judge without knowing the facts? You defend(judge in favor) because someone played on a stupid ass team.
 
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Weezer, Yes, I completely understand circumstancial evidence, as I work with it every day, but apparently you don't have a very good understanding of our CJ system. Your understanding and lack knowledge is the system is the problem. There is tremendous difference in probable cause and being found guilty at a trial.

Here are the facts as we know them

1. A victim filed a rape complaint with KPD naming AJ and Williams.
2. The police interviewed witnesses gathering evidence.
3. The police conducted an investigation including the execution of a state seach warrant that was issued by a Judge establishing probable cause to seach AJ's apartment where they gathered more evidence.
4. The police complied all the evidence in the case and sent it to the DA's office.
5. The DA reviewed the evidence.
6. The DA took the evidence and witnesses before a Grand Jury.
7. The Grand Jury returned a true bill charing both with crimes which establishes probable cause that a crime has been committed.
8. Williams surrendered to Police and was he allowed to post bond.
9. AJ surrendered to Police and he was allowed to post bond.
10. Both have hired legal counsel to prepare a defense while they await trial as both have maintained innocence.

These are the facts regarding the case as reported by the media. We won't know everything until it comes out at a trial.
 
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Weezer, Yes, I completely understand circumstancial evidence, as I work with it every day, but apparently you don't have a very good understanding of our CJ system. Your understanding and lack knowledge is the system is the problem. There is tremendous difference in probable cause and being found guilty at a trial.

Here are the facts as we know them

1. A victim filed a rape complaint with KPD naming AJ and Williams.
2. The police interviewed witnesses gathering evidence.
3. The police conducted an investigation including the execution of a state seach warrant that was issued by a Judge establishing probable cause to seach AJ's apartment where they gathered more evidence.
4. The police complied all the evidence in the case and sent it to the DA's office.
5. The DA reviewed the evidence.
6. The DA took the evidence and witnesses before a Grand Jury.
7. The Grand Jury returned a true bill charing both with crimes which establishes probable cause that a crime has been committed.
8. Williams surrendered to Police and was he allowed to post bond.
9. AJ surrendered to Police and he was allowed to post bond.
10. Both have hired legal counsel to prepare a defense while they await trial as both have maintained innocence.

These are the facts regarding the case as reported by the media. We won't know everything until it comes out at a trial.
So KPD did not say if a rape kit was taken right after the incident? or if phones siezed? Thats the stuff that will convict. What they are reporting makes you wonder why they were even charged. I assume they do.
 
That's just a complete BS statement. Were you in the jury room? Did you hear the evidence presented? A GJ is a group of fallible human beings. You have no clue what they based their decision on, so to say it's "more likely than not" that AJ committed a crime is total crap.

It's apparent that you have already found him guilty. By your own statement, any other verdict simply means the prosecution failed. It can't be that AJ might actually be innocent.

Now here's the truth. It's possible AJ did it. If he did, throw the book at him. Punish him as severely as the law allows, which I personally don't think is harsh enough. It's possible he did it and he'll get away with it, at least in this lifetime. If that's the case, we'll never know the truth, because it's also possible he's innocent. It's possible he and his accuser had consensual sex. It's possible she's falsely accusing him out of vindictiveness. The truth is, a myriad of possibilities about what might have happenned that night exist, but only those directly involved know what actually happenned. The truth is that the rest of us will never know with certainty what did happen.

You seem eager and quick to judge with no factual evidence at your disposal. The fact that you're a LEO scares me.


Your misunderstanding of the system seems to be the problem. So I will try to help to the best of my abilities. I wrote this in another post and it seems useful here too.

Here is my understanding of probable cause after over 20 years of experience in law enforcement at the local, state and federal levels.

Probable Cause is when a reasonable person is presented with the facts and circumstances regarding the alleged crime would conclude that it's more probable than not that a crime has been committed by the accused.

It is a strict legal standard that must be met before any arrest, search or seizure can occur. This is a requirement based upon the U.S. Constitution so all levels of law enforcement must adhere to this standard.

For the Grand Jury to indict they must conclude that probable causes exist that a crime was committed and who committed it. The Grand Jury is made up of common citizens who are considered to be reasonable. It does not consist of attorneys, prosecutors, or LEO's or Judges. There is a foreman who is appointed to lead them.

A law enforcement officer (LEO) can arrest someone without a warrant based solely upon probable cause. This is called a warrantless arrest and there is nothing a defense attorney can do to prevent this from happening, it's a fundamental concept of our justice system.

The arrest just like any Grand Jury indictment does NOT determine guilt, but rather that based on the facts and circumstances it is more probable than not that a crime has been committed by the person who was arrested.

However, most prosecutors prefer that a LEO not make a warrantless arrest and procede cautiously especially in high profile cases. Therefore, the prosecutor takes the case to a Grand Jury where it's the prosecutor's responsibility to present the facts and circumstances to the Grand Jury including any exculpatory evidence that may serve to exhonorate the defendant.

The Grand Jury is not intended to be a confrontational hearing but simply a fact finding event to determine probable cause. If the allegations are confirmed by the Grand Jury then the Forman returns a true bill for the indictment. Once the defendant is indicted for the crime an arrest warrant is issued and the defendant goes to jail where he is usually given a bond, and is released from jail while he awaits trial. The defendant is still presumed to be innocent until guilt is proven at trial or accepted by pleading guilty.

I hope this helps.
 
Don't put yourself in bad situations. At best, AJ is dealing with false accusations. He maybe entirely innocent but he will never get back his good name in some people's eyes. At worst he did rape the girl and deserves to be put under the prison. But all of that is because of a person putting themselves in a bad situation with a girl that he didn't know.

He knew the girl, which is even more perplexing. As some have mentioned that he has text from her propositioning him for sex. I would think that would be enough to show consent.
 
He knew the girl, which is even more perplexing. As some have mentioned that he has text from her propositioning him for sex. I would think that would be enough to show consent.

But what if the girl initially consents but changes her mind during the act?
If she says to stop and he doesn't stop, is that rape?
I would think that it is.
I would think consent ends wit the word stop.
And, where does alcohol/drug/memory impairment come in?
Just seems to me these things always come down to which party is more believable.
 
He knew the girl, which is even more perplexing. As some have mentioned that he has text from her propositioning him for sex. I would think that would be enough to show consent.

If that truly exists it would definitely muddy the waters a lot for the prosecution being able to get a guilty verdict. That said I'll wait until the facts come out but that lines up with a lot of the rumors we've heard especially with Bowles and his father being witnesses.
 

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