A&E decides

#226
#226
Although I do not agree with the suspension and am supportive of his right to truthfully express his beliefs, I thought it might be helpful to explore another perspective.

I know a lot of people question why the LGBT community has made a big deal of this. The bottom line here is that when celebrities/people of influence make statements like this it does pepetuate the idea that gay people are lesser, more sinful, dirty, evil, etc. That is the reason they get so upset. It is not a situation where they are using the opportunity to shove homosexuality in the face of everyone, it's more a point of "hey, we're not so different from you; we're not vile, evil sub-human creatures". Are gays more sensitive than other groups? Sure, but understand that many of these folks have been disowned by family and church, and ridiculed for something out of their control. That can be difficult to get past.
 
#227
#227
KoachKletus said:
What is it then? Some "dude" on a reality show - a scripted show at that - expresses his fear, his homophobia, but now you make it out to be bigger than what it actually is! Think about it. Then think about who the idiot is. Replace the bearded ones with the ample cleaved ones (kardashians) and you have the same scripted bull**** with the same low IQ viewers.
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That is priceless.

Please define the word "phobia" and then explain how his statements fit the definition.

I saw nor interpreted any irrational fear in his statements.

He basically said: "I don't understand the attraction to a man's anus." And then loosely quoted a Bible verse that listed several actions as immoral.

If he were "phobic", he would have probably remained quiet for fear of attracting the attention of that which he "fears". Or he would have said to round them up and kill them all. Or he could have asked that all homosexuals be removed from pop culture, so as to remove their platform for affecting american culture.

Oh, wait... That's what happened to him.

Who appears to be operating out of fear? The one that made an objective moral statement, little more? Or the activist group that called for him to be removed, and the folks that seek to marginalize him by falsely attributing a stigma such as "homophobe"?

Who is operating out of fear? The one having the dialog, or the ones that seek to end two way dialog through bullying and name calling?
 
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#229
#229
gcbvol said:
Although I do not agree with the suspension and am supportive of his right to truthfully express his beliefs, I thought it might be helpful to explore another perspective.

I know a lot of people question why the LGBT community has made a big deal of this. The bottom line here is that when celebrities/people of influence make statements like this it does pepetuate the idea that gay people are lesser, more sinful, dirty, evil, etc. That is the reason they get so upset. It is not a situation where they are using the opportunity to shove homosexuality in the face of everyone, it's more a point of "hey, we're not so different from you; we're not vile, evil sub-human creatures". Are gays more sensitive than other groups? Sure, but understand that many of these folks have been disowned by family and church, and ridiculed for something out of their control. That can be difficult to get past.
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What about bisexuals?

Are they born that way too?
 
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#230
#230
gcbvol said:
Although I do not agree with the suspension and am supportive of his right to truthfully express his beliefs, I thought it might be helpful to explore another perspective.

I know a lot of people question why the LGBT community has made a big deal of this. The bottom line here is that when celebrities/people of influence make statements like this it does pepetuate the idea that gay people are lesser, more sinful, dirty, evil, etc. That is the reason they get so upset. It is not a situation where they are using the opportunity to shove homosexuality in the face of everyone, it's more a point of "hey, we're not so different from you; we're not vile, evil sub-human creatures". Are gays more sensitive than other groups? Sure, but understand that many of these folks have been disowned by family and church, and ridiculed for something out of their control. That can be difficult to get past.
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The only celebrities that get flamed are the non-minority for having beliefs that are on par with the "norm". If you don't have an over the top bleeding heart for the minority you're labeled an evil racist bigot. Of course gays, blacks, etc can seem to say just whatever the hell they want & it's accepted.
 
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#231
#231
gcbvol said:
Although I do not agree with the suspension and am supportive of his right to truthfully express his beliefs, I thought it might be helpful to explore another perspective.

I know a lot of people question why the LGBT community has made a big deal of this. The bottom line here is that when celebrities/people of influence make statements like this it does pepetuate the idea that gay people are lesser, more sinful, dirty, evil, etc. That is the reason they get so upset. It is not a situation where they are using the opportunity to shove homosexuality in the face of everyone, it's more a point of "hey, we're not so different from you; we're not vile, evil sub-human creatures". Are gays more sensitive than other groups? Sure, but understand that many of these folks have been disowned by family and church, and ridiculed for something out of their control. That can be difficult to get past.
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So you can't control whether-or-not you act on your homosexual tendencies, like a violent person can't control their violent tendencies, or a womanizer can't control their womanizing tendencies (an issue that many, many men face, and struggle with)?
 
#232
#232
gcbvol said:
Sure, and I also understand that some are grouped together in the same scripture(s), so I'm sure that accounts for a lot of it. They probably hear them listed together in sermons, or read them in personal study, etc.

I don't want to take this off topic, but I also take a bit of issue by calling homosexuality a preference and/or lifestyle. Those terms both imply choice, and being gay is as much a choice as race or gender are choices. And, no, I'm not speaking for all who identify as gay, but everyone I know claims the same. That is what differentiates homosexuality with some of those other sins, imo.
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Homosexuality is a choice in the same way that heterosexual adultery is. Maybe you can't control who you are attracted to, but you can control your actions. Please note that I'm saying this from the Judeo-Christian theological perspective, since we are in effect discussing morality as defined by the Bible.

God does not call a person to be heterosexual. He calls them to be holy. And it's not picking on homosexuals. Jesus said to die to self, take up our crosses, and follow Him. Every person that decides to be a Christian will have some part of their life to surrender to Him. Homosexual/sexual desires may be one of many.

So, "I was born this way" is not really an answer that denies the Bible's mandate that homosexuality would be a sin. The same Bible also says that we were all born into sin. We were all born with fallen human natures that need to be submitted to God's ideal, and reformed into the very image of Christ.

Again, I'm not saying you have to agree. I'm just explaining the balance of Biblical doctrine on this matter, and the basis where many Christians form their view.

:hi:
 
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#233
#233
Orange_Crush said:
Homosexuality is a choice in the same way that heterosexual adultery is. Maybe you can't control who you are attracted to, but you can control your actions. Please note that I'm saying this from the Judeo-Christian theological perspective, since we are in effect discussing morality as defined by the Bible.

God does not call a person to be heterosexual. He calls them to be holy. And it's not picking on homosexuals. Jesus said to die to self, take up our crosses, and follow Him. Every person that decides to be a Christian will have some part of their life to surrender to Him. Homosexual/sexual desires may be one of many.

So, "I was born this way" is not really an answer that denies the Bible's mandate that homosexuality would be a sin. The same Bible also says that we were all born into sin. We were all born with fallen human natures that need to be submitted to God's ideal, and reformed into the very image of Christ.

Again, I'm not saying you have to agree. I'm just explaining the balance of Biblical doctrine on this matter, and the basis where many Christians form their view.

:hi:
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So God intends for a person born as a homosexual to live a life of misery and loneliness for simply being gay? Doesn't really paint a picture of a loving and caring God very much.
 
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#234
#234
salutethehill said:
So you can't control whether-or-not you act on your homosexual tendencies, like a violent person can't control their violent tendencies, or a womanizer can't control their womanizing tendencies (an issue that many, many men face, and struggle with)?
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So since you are born straight you get to enjoy a life with someone you love but a gay man or woman can't? Again a God that orders that isn't very loving or caring.
 
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#236
#236
salutethehill said:
So you can't control whether-or-not you act on your homosexual tendencies, like a violent person can't control their violent tendencies, or a womanizer can't control their womanizing tendencies (an issue that many, many men face, and struggle with)?
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I'm saying that sexuality is innate. You can't just flip a switch and change it.

Sure, you can not act on it and lead a celibate life. Some choose that path.

Respectfully, it's easy to ask that someone not act on their homosexuality when you're sitting comfortably on the other side of the issue. I take it you are attracted to women, so how easy would it be to completely suppress and never act on that attraction?

I understand people do it, but should they be forced to? I truly do respect people of faith, but why does God condemn homosexuality when he included it in the natural world? Seems like gay people drew the short straw when it comes to battling sin.
 
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#239
#239
govols/cc said:
If that's your belief then fine. Should you be fired or face persecution because someone doesn't agree?
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I believe a private business has the right hire or fire anyone, at any time, for whatever reason they so wish.
 
#242
#242
vader said:
Not sure if you are talking about the same incident, but that happened in Lexington when I was in high school. Making chicken noises at the line of scrimmage when we played them was good times...except for the fact they beat us badly.
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:whistling: Yep, that's the one I was thinking about but didn't want to name the town.
 
#243
#243
I'm going to make the crazy assumption that all the duckers were under some form of contract and I have to believe AE thought that contract was violated or they could face litigation from the duckers so they made a business decision and suspended him.I find it astonishing that so many of you right to work state law lovers are so up in arms and in a massive tizzy over this hell while were at it where were you all defending Martin Bashir when he was forced to resign over Palin comments or Alec baldwin losing his show over homophobic slurs I guess I just missed your all's staunch defense of their right to their personal views.:ermm:
 
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#244
#244
zjcvols said:
Yes but what got him in trouble is when he started condemning people to hell. We can argue about hell and what not, but that is a serious charge to most people. You can say that what they are doing is wrong, but Phil Robertson is not God. That's not his place to condemn anyone to hell.
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The very scripture he quoted talks about who will not go to heaven. Would you oppose a person saying: "In Texas, if you murder someone, you'll get the death penalty"?

If you look holistically at the stuff he has said, he's stated repeatedly (often specifically pertaining to homosexuals), "I love everybody. They are no more sinful than I am. I just hope they find forgiveness."

Agree or disagree, this doesn't seem to be a guy that hates and wishes people into hell.
 
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#245
#245
Burhead said:
He said homosexuality, sleeping around, etc is immoral and by the very nature implies one will be condemned to hell if they don't stop. So yes, in essence he did, just not openly.
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He quoted a law, as he sees it. He condemned someone to hell no more than a legal analyst on Court TV condemns someone to the electric chair.

Your logic is a bit confusing.
 
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#246
#246
Burhead said:
"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

John 8:7

It is not his place to cast judgement.
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Stones kill. Was Phil trying to kill homosexuals?

And, since you're quoting scripture:

Ephesians 5:3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. 4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. 5For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not become partners with them; 8for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9(for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), 10and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Phil was doing what the Bible commands us to do. Calling sin sin.

It was Jesus that said the world hated Him because He called sin sin. (John 7) He later said the world would hate Christians for the same reason.

I agree, though. If Phil had been trying to kill homosexuals by throwing big rocks at them, he would have been a bad Christian.
 
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#247
#247
DAVOL said:
I'm going to make the crazy assumption that all the duckers were under some form of contract and I have to believe AE thought that contract was violated or they could face litigation from the duckers so they made a business decision and suspended him.I find it astonishing that so many of you right to work state law lovers are so up in arms and in a massive tizzy over this hell while were at it where were you all defending Martin Bashir when he was forced to resign over Palin comments or Alec baldwin losing his show over homophobic slurs I guess I just missed your all's staunch defense of their right to their personal views.:ermm:
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They all got screwed. I live in a right to work state & I don't know of anybody ever being fired without just cause.
 
#248
#248
Burhead said:
So God intends for a person born as a homosexual to live a life of misery and loneliness for simply being gay? Doesn't really paint a picture of a loving and caring God very much.
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You are free to take it up with him. A few thoughts, tho.

Misery? Do you actually believe that sex is the only form of happiness in the world? I know lots of people who live chaste lives who are very fulfilled. Perhaps you are overstating the importance of sex, and understating the happiness and fulfillment available in so many other avenues? (Not the least of which is a relationship with Him, which I can say from experience dwarfs anything else I've ever experience.)

Loneliness? Do you actually believe that sex is the only form of companionship that be happy and fulfilling? That is extremely sad.

Loving? He loves you so much that He sent His Son to die that you may be reconciled to Him, and so that your fallen human nature can be transformed to find infinite fulfillment as it never could outside of Him.

How's that for loving and kind?
 
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#249
#249
Burhead said:
So since you are born straight you get to enjoy a life with someone you love but a gay man or woman can't? Again a God that orders that isn't very loving or caring.
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Again... You are free to take it up with Him. He created sex and marriage. Jesus defined it in Matthew 19. He's also the one that said to die to self in order to follow Him. He also said not many would choose to do so.

If that makes you dislike Him, there's plenty more where that came from. Move through the epistles, and it seems like you can't go three pages without being reminded that there's LOTS of things God calls us to give up to follow Him.

Prov 14:12 There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.

Loving God? He died to give you eternity, and you question His love because He wants your sex life. If that doesn't beat all... :)
 
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#250
#250
gcbvol said:
I'm saying that sexuality is innate. You can't just flip a switch and change it.

Sure, you can not act on it and lead a celibate life. Some choose that path.

Respectfully, it's easy to ask that someone not act on their homosexuality when you're sitting comfortably on the other side of the issue. I take it you are attracted to women, so how easy would it be to completely suppress and never act on that attraction?

I understand people do it, but should they be forced to? I truly do respect people of faith, but why does God condemn homosexuality when he included it in the natural world? Seems like gay people drew the short straw when it comes to battling sin.
Click to expand...

God is not the author of sin. Humanity is the author of sin. Theologically speaking, God created people with a perfect nature that reflected His own. The first humans sinned willfully, and humanity inherited that sinful nature and all of the sinful traits that come with it. But Jesus came to rescue us and give us a new nature.

Paul said it this way:

In the first Adam, all died. But through the second Adam (Jesus), all were redeemed.

Paul went on to say that sin is slavery. All of it. It's a harsh slave driver that degrades us. But through Christ, we have been set free of sin that it should not rule over us. In other words, our sexual desires rule our lives , kill us, and degrade us. But we have access to new desires through the same power that raised Jesus from the grave, and His Spirit that endwells us.

So, you say: Why would God make me this way and then ask me not to enjoy it?

The Bible says, H didn't and through His Son you won't anymore. He will give you new desires that will filfill you.

To burrhead... This is the definition of a loving God.

:hi:
 
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