A&E decides

#251
#251
gcbvol said:
For the record, as someone who is gay, I do not think he should have been put on hiatus for this. Obviously I disagree with his views, but they are his and he is fully entitled to them. This is a precarious road to travel, as we all have varying views on myriad topics. He was asked a question and he answered, perhaps too honestly.

It always saddens and disappoints me when folks group homosexuality along with bestiality, but it is what it is. Doesn't make them bad or hateful people, just outdated and misguided views, in my opinion.
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What he said, God said. I guess God is outdated and misguided too.
 
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#253
#253
gcbvol...

May I also commend and thank you for allowing this varied discussion. I have huge respect that you would enter it with such decorum. Let none of us minimize how personal this subject is to you. Thank you, and well played.
 
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#254
#254
Orange_Crush said:
God is not the author of sin. Humanity is the author of sin. Theologically speaking, God created people with a perfect nature that reflected His own. The first humans sinned willfully, and humanity inherited that sinful nature and all of the sinful traits that come with it. But Jesus came to rescue us and give us a new nature.

Paul said it this way:

In the first Adam, all died. But through the second Adam (Jesus), all were redeemed.

Paul went on to say that sin is slavery. All of it. It's a harsh slave driver that degrades us. But through Christ, we have been set free of sin that it should not rule over us. In other words, our sexual desires rule our lives , kill us, and degrade us. But we have access to new desires through the same power that raised Jesus from the grave, and His Spirit that endwells us.

So, you say: Why would God make me this way and then ask me not to enjoy it?

The Bible says, H didn't and through His Son you won't anymore. He will give you new desires that will filfill you.

To burrhead... This is the definition of a loving God.

:hi:
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I appreciate your response. Allow me to add personal experience on the topic.

I was raised Christian and was very active in the church into my early 20s. I fought against my sexuality for several years and prayed over it constantly, literally begging to be 'normal'. Unfortunately those prayers were never (apparently) answered. It is difficult to express in words the self-hate and anguish I experienced - this was a lengthy ordeal. When I ultimately accepted who I am, life changed - even before I actually acted on my sexuality; I felt peace.

Maybe I didn't pray enough, or accurately or made some other mistake; I don't know. All I know is that my life was absolutely miserable, and if there is a God it felt like I had been abandoned.

For the record I have only 'been' with one person my entire life, and we just celebrated 20 years together last week. Most who know me would likely consider me a kind, charitable person. I work to foster empathy as a primary driver in how I go through life. Not saying I'm a great person or better than anyone else, but I try to be a solid human being. Maybe I'm going to hell because I'm gay. If that's the case, so be it but I am so much more than my sexuality. We all are.
 
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#255
#255
gcbvol said:
I'm saying that sexuality is innate. You can't just flip a switch and change it.
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Grew up around a gay guy (family friends older son) and he was very "prancy" if you will. Is this innate also? Acting feminine? Also, I have read and have seen that homosexuals are very promiscuous, do you find this to be true or is it dependant on the individual?
 
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#256
#256
gcbvol said:
I appreciate your response. Allow me to add personal experience on the topic.

I was raised Christian and was very active in the church into my early 20s. I fought against my sexuality for several years and prayed over it constantly, literally begging to be 'normal'. Unfortunately those prayers were never (apparently) answered. It is difficult to express in words the self-hate and anguish I experienced - this was a lengthy ordeal. When I ultimately accepted who I am, life changed - even before I actually acted on my sexuality; I felt peace.

Maybe I didn't pray enough, or accurately or made some other mistake; I don't know. All I know is that my life was absolutely miserable, and if there is a God it felt like I had been abandoned.

For the record I have only 'been' with one person my entire life, and we just celebrated 20 years together last week. Most who know me would likely consider me a kind, charitable person. I work to foster empathy as a primary driver in how I go through life. Not saying I'm a great person or better than anyone else, but I try to be a solid human being. Maybe I'm going to hell because I'm gay. If that's the case, so be it but I am so much more than my sexuality. We all are.
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You sound like one of Gods children to me. I appreciate what you are sharing with us. I am sorry for your struggles, but it sounds like you have become an awesome human.
 
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#257
#257
Orange_Crush said:
gcbvol...

May I also commend and thank you for allowing this varied discussion. I have huge respect that you would enter it with such decorum. Let none of us minimize how personal this subject is to you. Thank you, and well played.
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Thank you. I appreciate the civil discourse and the well thought out replies you've shared. I very much appreciate this type of conversation.
 
#258
#258
gcbvol said:
I appreciate your response. Allow me to add personal experience on the topic.

I was raised Christian and was very active in the church into my early 20s. I fought against my sexuality for several years and prayed over it constantly, literally begging to be 'normal'. Unfortunately those prayers were never (apparently) answered. It is difficult to express in words the self-hate and anguish I experienced - this was a lengthy ordeal. When I ultimately accepted who I am, life changed - even before I actually acted on my sexuality; I felt peace.

Maybe I didn't pray enough, or accurately or made some other mistake; I don't know. All I know is that my life was absolutely miserable, and if there is a God it felt like I had been abandoned.

For the record I have only 'been' with one person my entire life, and we just celebrated 20 years together last week. Most who know me would likely consider me a kind, charitable person. I work to foster empathy as a primary driver in how I go through life. Not saying I'm a great person or better than anyone else, but I try to be a solid human being. Maybe I'm going to hell because I'm gay. If that's the case, so be it but I am so much more than my sexuality. We all are.
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I appreciate the response. Not knowing all the details, I would never dare to offer specific insight. :hi:

In general, I will say that we are called to be conformed and die to our sinful desires. Paul had something going on with him that he prayed earnestly for God to take away. It apparently it affected him with such depression that he was suicidal at times (despairing even of life). God's answer? "My grace is sufficient for you."

Jesus never once said that He came to make us happy-- just redeemed and holy. Please don't interpret that as me trying to be calloused and minimizing your struggles. I don't mean that to do so, just to state His priorities from a theological perspective.

Thanks again for the discussion. I pray that I came across as respectfully as you have. :hi:
 
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#259
#259
tim said:
Grew up around a gay guy (family friends older son) and he was very "prancy" if you will. Is this innate also? Acting feminine? Also, I have read and have seen that homosexuals are very promiscuous, do you find this to be true or is it dependant on the individual?
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That's a good question. I certainly know some who are quite effeminate but I was not around them early in life to know whether they were always like that or developed the characteristics.

In terms of promiscuity I think that maybe gay men can be very active, but I always wonder how much of that is related to the absence of women. I think the perception is that men are more promiscuous than women, but I'm not sure if that's accurate.
 
#260
#260
Orange_Crush said:
Again... You are free to take it up with Him. He created sex and marriage. Jesus defined it in Matthew 19. He's also the one that said to die to self in order to follow Him. He also said not many would choose to do so.

If that makes you dislike Him, there's plenty more where that came from. Move through the epistles, and it seems like you can't go three pages without being reminded that there's LOTS of things God calls us to give up to follow Him.

Prov 14:12 There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.

Loving God? He died to give you eternity, and you question His love because He wants your sex life. If that doesn't beat all... :)
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I've said this before on the matter but I grew up the Church, baptized, the whole thing. Once I started growing up and researching the matter I quickly learned that all religion is a sham. I saw first hand how the Church operated & how "Christians" acted, most of them being complete hypocrites. For example just in my youth group (before I quit going) my youth minister was caught fooling around with one of the girls in the group (who also had a BF at the time) and tried to kill himself afterwards. Also the entire female section of our group had or was going to have kids before they left high school. My experiences growing left me completely jaded about the whole concept.

While I love my mother to no end she still believes and tries to get me to go back which annoys me to no end. The other reasons I'm against religion is due to the fact that it has brought nothing but pain, suffering, and wars to this world. Not to mention the fact it is used globally as a tool to control the masses (an effective one no doubt). Maybe I'm just too cynical about religion all together but those are just my opinions however.
 
#261
#261
WHy did he even do an interview for GQ ? Armani coming out with 1000 dollar camo suits or what ?
 
#262
#262
gcbvol said:
Honestly, I do get that. Just strikes me as funny how often homosexuality, bestiality and pedophilia follow one another when listing sins. For whatever reason those seem to go together in a lot of minds.
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Seems like some sins are an abomination to God and I believe those are all considered to be the ones he dislikes the most but I could be wrong. I do believe some sins are worse than others.
 
#263
#263
508mikey said:
WHy did he even do an interview for GQ ? Armani coming out with 1000 dollar camo suits or what ?
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He probably realized it was an opportunity to bring the message to a different audience than have heard it through DD.
 
#264
#264
Forget A&E, doubt the Robertson's make that much from a rinky dink network like A&E anyway.

Bigger question is, has WalMart or Bass Pro pulled their merchandise or made any statement? Have the gay rights groups threatened them?
 
#265
#265
gcbvol said:
That's a good question. I certainly know some who are quite effeminate but I was not around them early in life to know whether they were always like that or developed the characteristics.

In terms of promiscuity I think that maybe gay men can be very active, but I always wonder how much of that is related to the absence of women. I think the perception is that men are more promiscuous than women, but I'm not sure if that's accurate.
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Makes sense. Men are definitely mor demanding sexually. Thanks again and MC to you and yours.
 
#266
#266
Burhead said:
I've said this before on the matter but I grew up the Church, baptized, the whole thing. Once I started growing up and researching the matter I quickly learned that all religion is a sham. I saw first hand how the Church operated & how "Christians" acted, most of them being complete hypocrites. For example just in my youth group (before I quit going) my youth minister was caught fooling around with one of the girls in the group (who also had a BF at the time) and tried to kill himself afterwards. Also the entire female section of our group had or was going to have kids before they left high school. My experiences growing left me completely jaded about the whole concept.

While I love my mother to no end she still believes and tries to get me to go back which annoys me to no end. The other reasons I'm against religion is due to the fact that it has brought nothing but pain, suffering, and wars to this world. Not to mention the fact it is used globally as a tool to control the masses (an effective one no doubt). Maybe I'm just too cynical about religion all together but those are just my opinions however.
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Pretty much agree with you :good!:
 
#268
#268
OJ said:
Seems like some sins are an abomination to God and I believe those are all considered to be the ones he dislikes the most but I could be wrong. I do believe some sins are worse than others.
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I always thought (and studied) that all sin is equally bad and one isn't any worse than the other.
 
#271
#271
Burhead said:
I've said this before on the matter but I grew up the Church, baptized, the whole thing. Once I started growing up and researching the matter I quickly learned that all religion is a sham. I saw first hand how the Church operated & how "Christians" acted, most of them being complete hypocrites. For example just in my youth group (before I quit going) my youth minister was caught fooling around with one of the girls in the group (who also had a BF at the time) and tried to kill himself afterwards. Also the entire female section of our group had or was going to have kids before they left high school. My experiences growing left me completely jaded about the whole concept.

While I love my mother to no end she still believes and tries to get me to go back which annoys me to no end. The other reasons I'm against religion is due to the fact that it has brought nothing but pain, suffering, and wars to this world. Not to mention the fact it is used globally as a tool to control the masses (an effective one no doubt). Maybe I'm just too cynical about religion all together but those are just my opinions however.
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So, please share the proof that "all religion is a sham".

Wait... It wasn't what I just quoted was it? Because you had someone in your church that abused their position? Because a group of teenagers were sexually active? I hope that's not the proof that you believe proves "all religion a sham".

Jesus told the parable of the wheat and tares. You know what that parable stated? There are a lot of people that claim to be Christian that really aren't. He often talked about sheep and goats. They will be separated on the last day, and no one will see the difference until He says, "Depart from me; I never knew you."

Further, even considering Christians, John wrote in his first epistle, "If anyone says that they don't sin, they are a liar." Paul himself said, "Woe is me! That which I want to do, I do not do, and that which I don't want to do, I do!" He continued, "But it is not me that sins but sin inside of me."

In other words, Christians sin. It's a sad fact of life that no one will ever be perfect until; we receive our new bodies in eternity that are not marred with our fallen, sinful nature.

So, so far... "Scientifically" and logically speaking, the only proof you've offered "against" Christianity is exactly what Christianity predicted you'd find if Christianity is true.

:hi:
 
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#272
#272
hog88 said:
Forget A&E, doubt the Robertson's make that much from a rinky dink network like A&E anyway.

Bigger question is, has WalMart or Bass Pro pulled their merchandise or made any statement? Have the gay rights groups threatened them?
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You can't walk any where in Wal-Mart and not see that idiotic merchandise it has gotten completely out of hand.
 
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#273
#273
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#274
#274
Burhead said:
I always thought (and studied) that all sin is equally bad and one isn't any worse than the other.
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All sin is terrible. Sexual sin is in a class of its own.

1 Corinthians 6

For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” 17But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
 
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