2020 Primaries

#4,651
#4,651
OHvol40 said:
You sound uninspired to offer a sound defense of a voting system that was designed for 13 colonies, yet still preservers to this day. I don’t blame you.
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The onus is on you to change it and your argument of a majority defies the Constitution. If you knew a little about that you'd know that it takes two thirds of a lot of things to change (amend) it. You need to convince a lot of us that the EC needs to change and you're not doing so well.
 
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#4,654
#4,654
0nelilreb said:
You can say that going the other way also , just like 2016 . Some people are non-confrontational or just don’t think it’s any of anyone’s business who they vote for .
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Which was a mistake because that made other's efforts to ostracize them even bolder. Thought police intimidation tactics failed though.

Is anyone actually at all enthusiastic about a potential Biden presidency?
 
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#4,655
#4,655
Electric Orange said:
Which was a mistake because that made other's efforts to ostracize them even bolder. Thought police intimidation tactics failed though.

Is anyone actually at all enthusiastic about a potential Biden presidency?
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The only reason they are kind of excited is because they are just anti-Trump. Biden is senile and corrupt but they don't give a damn
 
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#4,656
#4,656
OHvol40 said:
2. There has still been no logical defense to the fairness of the EC. Why do we conduct every other election using popular vote?
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Have thought a lot about the EC since stumbling into this discussion last night. There is no defense, logical or otherwise, necessary. The onus to defend or prosecute is on those who wish to change the current system.

To answer your second question: just like checks and balances are inherent in our system to ward against tyranny, different pathways to government leadership exist as safeguards from tyranny. Some positions are elected by popular vote, some positions are appointed, and one is elected by appointed Electors. Senators were originally appointed (should still be, imo). Supreme court justices are appointed. There is wisdom in removing the "majority rule" approach as power is condensed. Representatives, have less individual power than Senators, Justices, or the President. Majority rule for Representatives is less dangerous than majority rule for President. Furthermore, the design gives voice to all the governed. The people by Representatives. The states by Senators. And the Federal by the President.
 
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#4,657
#4,657
McDad said:
Have thought a lot about the EC since stumbling into this discussion last night. There is no defense, logical or otherwise, necessary. The onus to defend or prosecute is on those who wish to change the current system.

To answer your second question: just like checks and balances are inherent in our system to ward against tyranny, different pathways to government leadership exist as safeguards from tyranny. Some positions are elected by popular vote, some positions are appointed, and one is elected by appointed Electors. Senators were originally appointed (should still be, imo). Supreme court justices are appointed. There is wisdom in removing the "majority rule" approach as power is condensed. Representatives, have less individual power than Senators, Justices, or the President. Majority rule for Representatives is less dangerous than majority rule for President. Furthermore, the design gives voice to all the governed. The people by Representatives. The states by Senators. And the Federal by the President.
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Yeah, but, Hillary lost because of the antiquated EC.

That damn Constitution, it's antiquated too. . .

You say you'll change a constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head.
You tell me it's the institution,
Well, you know
You better free your mind instead.
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao,
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow.
Don't you know it's going to be alright,
Alright, alright
 
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#4,658
#4,658
Another nugget which seems to be lost in the discussion is America's definition of popular vote. We haven't had a popular vote winner in my lifetime. It's debatable if we've even seen a majority vote winner.
We've had a candidate get a majority of votes cast. When compared to the number of eligible voters, which is different from registered voters, no candidate has captured a majority of the eligible voters. At best, the popular vote 'winner' receives about 35% +/- of the count of eligible voters. About 20% +/- of the population is voting in the president to office.
 
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#4,659
#4,659
McDad said:
Have thought a lot about the EC since stumbling into this discussion last night. There is no defense, logical or otherwise, necessary. The onus to defend or prosecute is on those who wish to change the current system.

To answer your second question: just like checks and balances are inherent in our system to ward against tyranny, different pathways to government leadership exist as safeguards from tyranny. Some positions are elected by popular vote, some positions are appointed, and one is elected by appointed Electors. Senators were originally appointed (should still be, imo). Supreme court justices are appointed. There is wisdom in removing the "majority rule" approach as power is condensed. Representatives, have less individual power than Senators, Justices, or the President. Majority rule for Representatives is less dangerous than majority rule for President. Furthermore, the design gives voice to all the governed. The people by Representatives. The states by Senators. And the Federal by the President.
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It’s the default setting that’s often resorted to . The ones wanting the change or to do away with constitutional language often try to place the burden of proof or an explanation as to why it should be left the way it is . Just like with the 2a . It’s an interesting way to go about it for sure .
 
#4,661
#4,661
37L1 said:
Yeah, but, Hillary lost because of the antiquated EC.

That damn Constitution, it's antiquated too. . .

You say you'll change a constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head.
You tell me it's the institution,
Well, you know
You better free your mind instead.
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao,
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow.
Don't you know it's going to be alright,
Alright, alright
Click to expand...
Sounds like you're looking for a revolution.
 
#4,666
#4,666
0nelilreb said:
You can say that going the other way also , just like 2016 . Some people are non-confrontational or just don’t think it’s any of anyone’s business who they vote for .
Click to expand...
It's like saying fear of assisted suicide kept people from speaking out about Hillary.
 
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#4,667
#4,667
OHvol40 said:
1. You have no idea what generation I hail from.

2. There has still been no logical defense to the fairness of the EC. Why do we conduct every other election using popular vote?
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What standard of "fairness/justice" do you want to use for the debate? If ya'll can agree on that, ya'll can have that debate. Short of an agreed upon standard and source of rights, you get down to the Constitution as the guide for justice and fairness.

What does the Constitution say is fair?
 
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#4,668
#4,668
Septic said:
Get some popcorn and head over to Reddit if Bern loses Michigan, the meltdown will be glorious.
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I can't wait. They still think it's a conspiracy that California hasn't been called by most outlets, even though there are even this morning over 2.1 million mail in votes and 600+ thousand provisional ballots still to be counted.

Biden probably doesn't catch up and win in the end, but Bernie's delegate lead in California will be smaller than Biden's in Alabama. No way to win a nomination if your best state demographically nets jack squat on the delegate count.
 
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