'17' TN ATH Tee Higgins (Clemson commit)

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You quoted that ridiculous nonsense? Butch is on the hottest seat in the country right now? Wow man you really are new to football. Smdh.

Maybe not the hottest right now. But let a replay of 2015 happen where he blows leads and loses to Florida and/or Georgia. Then he'll be on his way out.

Its SEC title game or bust for Butch Jones. No more brick by brick clitches.

This is Tennessee. We are about results.

 

[CrunchingTheVolz]

Yes... the blue font should be assumed on that one. Unless you think like CTV and integrity can be a flexible trait.

I'm all for integrity. It's got to be a two way street though, especially with a thing like recruiting. I'd love to see our coaches start to recruit with some integrity. That happens and I'd be much less willing to ignore it when a recruit turns the tables on them. A coach calls you family then yanks an offer to make room and he's making the right business decision. A kid tells you what you want to hear and he's a liar. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I think the way CBJ coaches with a lead is playing a significant factor in the reversal of his recruiting fortune. There is very little evidence that his conservative, play-not-to-lose philosophy that relies on a horizontal passing attack with the lead against good teams and/or dominate defenses will ever change. We've seen nothing to suggest it has (despite his flock of sheep that will point to Vandy and Northwestern, which does not convince me, although perhaps those games are a reason for cautious optimism).

CBJ goes into conservative mode (to the extreme) every time he builds a lead beyond one score against quality competition. He simply tries to get the game over with instead of continuing the game plan that built the lead. There is zero passion on offense once a two score lead is established against our toughest foes.

Even after the catastrophic collapses against OU and UF, which were widely criticized across the sports world, he still showed that same tendency against four other opponents.

Here's the total quarter-by-quarter scoring of UT last year in the four losses (OU, UF, Ark, Bama) and two conservative SEC wins (USCe, Mizzu):
First – 58-21 +276%
Second – 33-16 +206%
Third – 16-38 -238%
Fourth – 17-45 -265%

First Half – 91-37 +246%
Second half – 33-83 -252%

All six games were the same song, different verse in terms of offensive production following a built up lead. The only difference is how the defense performed with the lead in those games.

A lot of fans have chosen to forget how close we came to giving up a victory against USCe (saved by a fumble in the redzone with 32 seconds left and a mere 3-point lead against an interim coached inferior team). After scoring on the first two possessions with ease, our conservative offense could only score one more touchdown the rest of the game against one of the worst defenses in the SEC. CBJ's conservative approach allowed USCe to tie it up 24-24 despite building a 17-0 lead.

The Mizzu game showed a similar conservative offensive mindset from Butch, but the Tiger's offense was so inept it couldn't take advantage.

Elite HS players see this when they watch our games and it probably turns some of them off. I know it would me (it takes away my enthusiasm of CBJ as a fan), especially if I was destined to play offense. It's hard to be enthusiastic about a coach who plays not-to-lose against his best opponents.

Basically, "Butch Stones" has no balls, which is why I grimace every time one of these CBJ ballsniffers on VN makes some kind of lewd comment or innuendo about his machismo -- not to mention how pathetic it is for men to make such comments about another man. It's quite the irony when one considers how he coaches.

Agree with almost everything you said. Butch Jones has also given me no faith to believe that he has learned his lesson.

He's yet to acknowledge he made mistakes. His hiring on Shoop while great also shows this arrogance. He's basically saying it was the defense's fault those leads were blown rather than his conservative approach.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You can be a fan and have common sense imo

Not really. Being a fan is to be irrational.

Sorta like patriotism. We have tons of objective markers saying that there are many countries better than the United States in healthcare, education, infant mortality, happiness, etc.

That still won't stop nearly every American from screaming USA USA and screw those other countries.

Same with sports. Being a fan is to literally be a FANATIC. Common sense or reason be damned.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Truth. We'll know in less than six months. It's now or never for Butch Jones in the SEC. He did not coach last year's team to their potential in the first half of the season and its costing us now. Fans who are quick to criticize this opinion need to remember how close we were to starting the season 2-4 after falling into a 21-point deficit against UGA.

Hopefully he coaches team 120 to their full potential and the direction for the program continues upward as everyone currently views the trajectory. If we don't play like a top 10 team this year (as we damn well should be), recruiting will continue to suffer and the steady improvement we've seen (which I've always felt should have come sooner based on the recruiting talent CBJ amassed) will reverse.

At a minimum, I'm looking forward to not having to hear any excuses this season (and hopefully beyond).

If we're not playing in Atlanta for a shot at the playoffs this year, we'll know Butch ain't the one.

No backdooring your way into the SEC championship game like South Carolina in 2010.

 

[jlawso21]

I don't have any insider info, the only info I get is off this site. But over the time a thread like this gets started and ends up with a decision, sometimes a year or more, certain things start to stand out. This recruitment has had drama from day one, particularly as it involved Amari Rogers and the intrigue involving his father, Tee Martin. There has always been the flavor of something more than just recruiting. Add to that the age of those involved and it should not be too surprising.

Volnation is more than just disappointed on this one, and I believe that is true of the coaching staff. I do believe they were trolled by Tee, at least in the last few weeks. It's one thing to enjoy recruiting or even to have fun and exult in your final decision. It's quite another to take obvious joy in sticking the proverbial knife in and twisting it. I do believe in some Karma, and I believe there will be some involved with this young man before his recruitment/career is over. Not wishing him bad fortune, Karma takes care of that all by itself.

Butch and the staff may not be perfect, but overall he has done an unbelievable job of rebuilding this program against all odds. I for one am grateful he is our coach and believe the program is in good hands. I will continue to support Butch and look forward to this season. Recruiting will get better. Would I love to have seen him commit, you bet! Do I believe his commitment to Clemson will have a long term effect? No, as long as Butch doesn't overreact.

So, the adults in the room (the UT war room) have to take the high road and move on. We will find great players and once we have success this will be little remembered. But I predict the this stunt will come back to haunt Mr. Higgins. If he lied to our coaches it will reveal a character that won't hold up at Clemson. If he did not lie then good luck him, but I won't invest any more energy in worrying about him.

Edit: And if I were his family I would be careful, it may not be as much fun living here as it has been.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Will be interesting to see if Tee gets cold feet in Nov/Dec and calls Dabo up and say I want to take some official visits.

If that happens will be interesting to see if Dabo stays consistent and tells him to decommit.

I think committing to them now actually helps us in Dec-Feb, no way he will be able to stay away from our campus for 9 months and when he inevitably visits, what does Dabo do?

We had 5* Clemson commit Tavein Feaster visit last year around this time. Dabo pulled no offer or made no threats.

I think that no visits shtick is only for marginal prospects.

Tee will probably have no such directive.

 

[InVOLuntary]

So maybe recruits have decided to eliminate the insiders. If they are going to spoil their moment like VQ does, I'm honestly surprised recruits didn't start these tactics much sooner.

VQ has never spoiled a recruit's moment. Sure they may drop small hints. If anything the national guys have been spoiling their moment as they've said Clemson all along. Tee "Von Belled" his own community. It's fairly obvious he lied to everyone in the 865. Speaks to class or lack thereof.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I don't have any insider info, the only info I get is off this site. But over the time a thread like this gets started and ends up with a decision, sometimes a year or more, certain things start to stand out. This recruitment has had drama from day one, particularly as it involved Amari Rogers and the intrigue involving his father, Tee Martin. There has always been the flavor of something more than just recruiting. Add to that the age of those involved and it should not be too surprising.

Volnation is more than just disappointed on this one, and I believe that is true of the coaching staff. I do believe they were trolled by Tee, at least in the last few weeks. It's one thing to enjoy recruiting or even to have fun and exult in your final decision. It's quite another to take obvious joy in sticking the proverbial knife in and twisting it. I do believe in some Karma, and I believe there will be some involved with this young man before his recruitment/career is over. Not wishing him bad fortune, Karma takes care of that all by itself.

Butch and the staff may not be perfect, but overall he has done an unbelievable job of rebuilding this program against all odds. I for one am grateful he is our coach and believe the program is in good hands. I will continue to support Butch and look forward to this season. Recruiting will get better. Would I love to have seen him commit, you bet! Do I believe his commitment to Clemson will have a long term effect? No, as long as Butch doesn't overreact.

So, the adults in the room (the UT war room) have to take the high road and move on. We will find great players and once we have success this will be little remembered. But I predict the this stunt will come back to haunt Mr. Higgins. If he lied to our coaches it will reveal a character that won't hold up at Clemson. If he did not lie then good luck him, but I won't invest any more energy in worrying about him.

Edit: And if I were his family I would be careful, it may not be as much fun living here as it has been.

Great post.

I just hope he didn't lie either. That's the only thing that would make me not like the kid. I have no issue with his decision. You can go wherever you want. Tennessee doesn't own Tee Higgins. However, stringing along those in your own hometown (which Knoxville basically is given it's proximity to Oak Ridge) only to stab them in the back is not cool.

I hope that was not the case and that the reports that he was all vol was from overzelous family members who didn't know what he was gonna do or some coaches who were being overly hopeful. And not from his own mouth.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Do these 40-50 year old coaches lie to these recruits during the process if recuiting? My money would be on Yes. They tell them what they want to hear. When a recruit returns a little of that, off with his head. LOL

Can you go back to your island where there is no Internet? I'm not lying when I ask that.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I'm all for integrity. It's got to be a two way street though, especially with a thing like recruiting. I'd love to see our coaches start to recruit with some integrity. That happens and I'd be much less willing to ignore it when a recruit turns the tables on them. A coach calls you family then yanks an offer to make room and he's making the right business decision. A kid tells you what you want to hear and he's a liar. You can't have it both ways.

So how are Butch and company not recruiting with integrity? Do you have verifiable info or are you getting your impressions from Volnation and other Internet sources?

 

[Vol_sanity]

Worst thread ever...IMO

 

[butchna]

So how are Butch and company not recruiting with integrity? Do you have verifiable info or are you getting your impressions from Volnation and other Internet sources?

You quote him...you feed him.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

We had 5* Clemson commit Tavein Feaster visit last year around this time. Dabo pulled no offer or made no threats.

I think that no visits shtick is only for marginal prospects.

Tee will probably have no such directive.

Offers aren't pulled for good (or at all); you're misunderstanding Dabo's handling of it. He doesn't consider you committed if you take visits and will continue to recruit other players at said position. As long as you're committed and he's only taking 1 at your spot, he honors your commitment and shuts down his pursuit of others. Feaster visited, returned home and immediately firmed up his commitment to Clemson; something behind the scenes was definitely said by Dabo. He's not going to let you reserve a spot for eternity.

 

[LynxVol]

This recruitment is not over. I'm interested to see how the next few months go in terms of visits. We all know Dabo's "policy" on commitments visiting other schools. I don't see that applying to Higgins given how close he is to Knoxville.

 

[InVOLuntary]

You quote him...you feed him.

I know, I'm sorry. His lack of grey matter between his fallopian tubes, (Or is it eustachian tubes?) make it hard to resist sometimes.

 

[Pacer92]

Tough pill to swallow losing elite talent within miles of campus. I know Dobbs isn't the prototypical thrower of the football, but I blame the system. It's not WR friendly let's face it. WR want to make plays down the field and this offense doesn't offer that. Too much lateral short stuff and sideline throws that make it harder on the QB.

 

[AppStVol]

I don't have any insider info, the only info I get is off this site. But over the time a thread like this gets started and ends up with a decision, sometimes a year or more, certain things start to stand out. This recruitment has had drama from day one, particularly as it involved Amari Rogers and the intrigue involving his father, Tee Martin. There has always been the flavor of something more than just recruiting. Add to that the age of those involved and it should not be too surprising.

Volnation is more than just disappointed on this one, and I believe that is true of the coaching staff. I do believe they were trolled by Tee, at least in the last few weeks. It's one thing to enjoy recruiting or even to have fun and exult in your final decision. It's quite another to take obvious joy in sticking the proverbial knife in and twisting it. I do believe in some Karma, and I believe there will be some involved with this young man before his recruitment/career is over. Not wishing him bad fortune, Karma takes care of that all by itself.

Butch and the staff may not be perfect, but overall he has done an unbelievable job of rebuilding this program against all odds. I for one am grateful he is our coach and believe the program is in good hands. I will continue to support Butch and look forward to this season. Recruiting will get better. Would I love to have seen him commit, you bet! Do I believe his commitment to Clemson will have a long term effect? No, as long as Butch doesn't overreact.

So, the adults in the room (the UT war room) have to take the high road and move on. We will find great players and once we have success this will be little remembered. But I predict the this stunt will come back to haunt Mr. Higgins. If he lied to our coaches it will reveal a character that won't hold up at Clemson. If he did not lie then good luck him, but I won't invest any more energy in worrying about him.

Edit: And if I were his family I would be careful, it may not be as much fun living here as it has been.

You never know, his family may be moving into a new house on Lake Hartwell. A commonly known perk(outside of the NCAA) of playing for Clemson is how they house star players in nice lake homes along Hartwell. It's similar to Auburn around there as the college controls everything with cops, media, etc and allows them to get by with a lot more than they would in a place like Knoxville.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Tough pill to swallow losing elite talent within miles of campus. I know Dobbs isn't the prototypical thrower of the football, but I blame the system. It's not WR friendly let's face it. WR want to make plays down the field and this offense doesn't offer that. Too much lateral short stuff and sideline throws that make it harder on the QB.

Well the system has been tailored because Dobbs can not throw it downfield.
In Cincinnati, this offense produced an 1100, 680, and 770 yard receivers.
At Central Michigan, this offense had an 1100, 990, 1100 yard receivers.

Its not the offense, its the QB.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Last post on this, and I'm going to let it all out and move on.

Don't try to sell me in his fandom, him being conflicted, and just making a business decision.

Every Tennessee voice, including Butch expected a commitment. He decided at Clemson, turned around to go to OCD, lied to Butch's face instead of thanking him for his recruitment, and telling it straight. He pissed on the staff, for his own moment of glory.

Much more respect for a man who can be confident in his decision and stand by it. Not so much for someone who talks out of both sides of his mouth. Young man got his moment in the sun, but I hope he learns how to handle things better. He's just a kid

This recuitment is over. You can keep holding on to hope, and quote Drew Richmonds recruitment all day long. There is 0 chance he flips, and with that, i lose my vindictiveness and I move on

Good day, gents :hi:

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Well the system has been tailored because Dobbs can not throw it downfield.
In Cincinnati, this offense produced an 1100, 680, and 770 yard receivers.
At Central Michigan, this offense had an 1100, 990, 1100 yard receivers.

Its not the offense, its the QB.

Which is odd at Cincy cause neither Collaros or Legaux completed many passes. Both had a completion percentage as crappy or worse as Dobbs. Maybe Collaros was just better downfield than Dobbs. Lefevour is another story. He's one of the best QB's in college football history from a pure stats standpoint.

 

[CrunchingTheVolz]

VQ has never spoiled a recruit's moment. Sure they may drop small hints. If anything the national guys have been spoiling their moment as they've said Clemson all along. Tee "Von Belled" his own community. It's fairly obvious he lied to everyone in the 865. Speaks to class or lack thereof.

Anyone who follows recruiting and VQ knows what "UT has positioned themselves well here" means. You can say they are not spoiling a kids announcement. That's exactly what they did in saying that. Tee just made sure the info he provided them was not accurate. Like usual VQ posted their typical "hints" as you call them and they were very wrong. IMO, something we'll see more and more recruits do. Is it wrong? Not if the recruit wants his announcement to be his moment.

 

[BleedingButch]

Plot twist - Higgins is a silent UT commit going undercover to convert the Clemson commits to UT.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Well the system has been tailored because Dobbs can not throw it downfield.
In Cincinnati, this offense produced an 1100, 680, and 770 yard receivers.
At Central Michigan, this offense had an 1100, 990, 1100 yard receivers.

Its not the offense, its the QB.

I dont know about that. I've seen Dobbs throw it pretty well when we've had no choice but to throw.

See 2014 South Carolina and 2015 Georgia.

Those are the only 2 games we've fallen behind by double digits since Dobbs took over as the full-time starter. Both were 300 yard passing and 100 yard rushing days for Dobbs. Both were come from behind victories.

I think its more Butch Jones conservatism in the SEC against top teams than anything to do with Dobbs talent. We've seen how he clams up like a shell once we take double digit leads.

Dobbs play when we've had no choice but to rely on his arm says otherwise. Its more Butch Jones and his philosophy to play it conservative. With runners like Hurd, Kamara, and Dobbs, he probably thinks why take the risk and pass. Especially in the mighty SEC.

 

[CrunchingTheVolz]

Plot twist - Higgins is a silent UT commit going undercover to convert the Clemson commits to UT.

You mean the 3 that most feel UT didn't want? Interesting. LOL