'14 TN WR Josh Malone (UT commit 12/4/13)

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#6,302
#6,302
Let me add that I have no idea where he is going. Zero. Buck is the best source for this recruitment. Everything he has posted thus far has been 100% accurate. I will also add that it appears my info is cut off now. The Malones are shutting it down. Any info that comes out of those in homes will have to come from the respective coaching staffs or be made up.
 
#6,303
#6,303
VOLout8 said:
Let me add that I have no idea where he is going. Zero. Buck is the best source for this recruitment. Everything he has posted thus far has been 100% accurate. I will also add that it appears my info is cut off now. The Malones are shutting it down. Any info that comes out of those in homes will have to come from the respective coaching staffs or be made up.
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I've been getting the impression from Buck's posts over the last few weeks that it's not going to be Tennessee. Sure hope I'm wrong on that.
 
#6,304
#6,304
VOLout8 said:
Let me add that I have no idea where he is going. Zero. Buck is the best source for this recruitment. Everything he has posted thus far has been 100% accurate. I will also add that it appears my info is cut off now. The Malones are shutting it down. Any info that comes out of those in homes will have to come from the respective coaching staffs or be made up.
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Following your post over the past few weeks leads me to believe this isn't going to end the way we all thought.

I was very confident before today. Now I think we may be in trouble here
 
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#6,305
#6,305
BruinVol said:
Following your post over the past few weeks leads me to believe this isn't going to end the way we all thought.

I was very confident before today. Now I think we may be in trouble here
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Am beginning to believe that way as well. Promising info for Tennessee was flowing for awhile, then all of the sudden, the info dries up and the camp "shuts things down". Hope I'm reading too much into it.
 
#6,306
#6,306
BruinVol said:
Following your post over the past few weeks leads me to believe this isn't going to end the way we all thought.

I was very confident before today. Now I think we may be in trouble here
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Yea I have no clue. Which ever school he picks can thank their head coach for closing the deal. I will have no more info either. I am following along like everyone else now.
 
#6,307
#6,307
Our on the field suckitude the last few weeks with the QB Malone was looking to as the future at UT has hurt it seems. And Clemson is selling Watson and Kitt and a program already winning. Makes sense.

Butch and Thigpen are really going to have to win this one in the end. I have faith they will.
 
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#6,308
#6,308
Ron Swanson said:
Our on the field suckitude the last few weeks with the QB Malone was looking to as the future at UT has hurt it seems. And Clemson is selling Watson and Kitt and a program already winning. Makes sense.

Butch and Thigpen are really going to have to win this one in the end. I have faith they will.
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Yep. The last few weeks IMO have made things a lot tougher for Tennessee. Especially the Vandy game. I still cant get over the offensive gameplan they came up with for that one.
 
#6,309
#6,309
Montrell Hardy said:
Yep. The last few weeks IMO have made things a lot tougher for Tennessee. Especially the Vandy game. I still cant get over the offensive gameplan they came up with for that one.
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I've blocked it from my memory. Snap and clear, right? Hopefully Malone does too.
 
#6,310
#6,310
KBVol said:
kmkemp11 said:
That's just not true. Just because it's worked out for some coaches doesn't mean it will always work out. There are plenty of counterexamples out there. There are plenty of reasons to doubt that Butch can translate his success to the SEC. He never had to coach against Saban at Cincinatti. He never had to win games with less talented teams. His leash is shorter in the SEC where every win is worth more dollars, so there is pressure to turn it around quickly. Next year, for example, we project to probably not have a better roster (except maybe in the depth) but this place will go ape**** if we only win 5 games.
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So it's just not true that Meyer, Saban, Spurrier and Miles came from "lesser" conferences as successful coaches and transitioned their winning systems quite nicely to National Championship Programs at Florida (twice), Saban (LSU & Bama, 4 times), Florida (once) and Miles (once).
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That's not what I said. I said that showing positive evidence doesn't prove anything without looking at the counter-examples as well.

I have given you 4 examples off the top of my head and I'm sure I could give you more. You said there were counter examples.... who? There may be plenty, I don't know. Give me a few who were successful at other conferences and were bad in the SEC.

Successful coaches are, wait for it.....successful coaches, and they tend to be successful no matter where they coach.
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The problem here is that we're limiting our sample size to the SEC. A successful coach doesn't always take a job at a bigger school and succeed. Otherwise, we would be hiring high school coaches that haven't lost games in 3 or 4 years since they would be "sure things" by that logic.

Conversely, bad coaches with little to no success in "lesser conferences" or who were not successful collegiate HCs anywhere tend not to do well in the SEC.... I can quickly think of 3 ... Gerry DiNardo, Lane Kiffin and Derek Dooley.

Also, Butch coached vs Charlie Strong, a guy most consider a coaching star and the guy who UT wanted ahead of Jones.... were it not for a narrow 3 point overtime loss at Louisville last year, Butch would've been 3-0 against Strong. To my knowledge Butch never had the opportunity to coach vs Saban... can't say what that outcome would've been, but how does that remotely relate to what we're discussing here? Are you saying that because Butch didn't coach a game vs Saban that his 4 share of or outright conf championships didn't happen or weren't legit?
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No, I'm saying that the quality of coach he faces in the SEC is higher than at his previous gigs.

Finally, you said Butch never had to win games with lesser talented teams. Can you prove that? I saw an analysis shortly after he was hired that showed that while at Cincy, on average, he won 2 games per season that, based on talent evaluations on paper of the 2 teams, he won 2 games per season he was not supposed to win. Isn't that the definition of winning games with lesser talented teams?
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I've read the same analysis. For his career (before this season), he had won 0.67 games more per season than expected based on talent.

ref: 2013 College Football Matrix Pre-Season Coach Effect Rankings and Metrics

That's good, but those numbers are slanted towards teams that don't have top talent since it would be hard to win more games than you were expected to if you were expected to win 9 or 10 already. It's a lot easier when they expect you'll win 6 or 7. And even then, his number isn't super impressive.

Look, I don't, you don't, no one knows if Butch is gonna make it happen here. Time will tell. But I'll stick to my original argument that good coaches who have success and/or win championships in lesser conferences (MAC, Mtn West, Big East,etc) can, have and will continue to run successful programs in the SEC.
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It does seem to be the only recipe that works out. But it doesn't always work out. I'm hopeful that Butch is our man. There are plenty of positive vibes, but it comes down to this: you have to be a great recruiter and a great coach (or at least hire great coordinators) to win national championships. He definitely looks the part as a recruiter, but the coaching is still a big question mark. We have two coordinators that still have a lot to prove and so far their resume has 1 upset (South Carolina) and 1 bad loss (Vanderbilt), and a lot of blowouts against the best teams. Not exactly confidence inspiring from a coaching perspective.
 
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#6,312
#6,312
If he is thinking that, the problem is we haven't seen the QB that will be throwing him the ball yet.
 
#6,314
#6,314
Nashvegas31 said:
Was butch in home last night or next Tuesday?

TN officials told 247 yesterday they wouldn't speak on uncommitted prospects that have signed papers out of respect for their privacy.

If he visited last night I wonder if they have the ok to make a general comment.

Butchs comment was general. Richt went full out recruit pitch mode. Which tells me we prob are ahead of him. I am not liking this Clemson momentum but at least he would be out of our conference
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I didn't think Butch would stoop to media-based, propaganda butt kissing and I'm glad that he won't, There is still something to be said for keeping your dignity and not doing whatever is in the rules to get even the perception of an edge. I am sure the Malones are well aware of how much Josh is wanted here without having to read it through a media outlet. I agree that WR is a tough sell for us right now and that it would be hard to blame Josh for having reservations about coming here. Still, a future corps of Malone, North, Booth and Preston Williams has me reminiscing about the Pickens, Harper and Morgan years. Maybe some last minute Thigpen magic will do the trick? Ya never know!
 
#6,316
#6,316
bignewt said:
nice novel
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It's long ... but he's right. I was hopeful this coaching staff would win some games in spite of our lesser talent. It just hasn't happened. We have puzzling gameplans and uninspiring performances.

They can recruit like champs which is way more than the last staff had going for them. Unfortunately, that seems to be all they have at the moment. The race isn't over yet, though. I'm hoping Butch learns from this awful year and makes adjustments.
 
#6,317
#6,317
Ron Swanson said:
Our on the field suckitude the last few weeks with the QB Malone was looking to as the future at UT has hurt it seems. And Clemson is selling Watson and Kitt and a program already winning. Makes sense.

Butch and Thigpen are really going to have to win this one in the end. I have faith they will.
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Poor Dobbs is going to have to play a whole season to get his TD/INT ratio above 1. I am afraid the Vandy game may have ended it for us.
 
#6,318
#6,318
kmkemp11 said:
The problem here is that we're limiting our sample size to the SEC. A successful coach doesn't always take a job at a bigger school and succeed. Otherwise, we would be hiring high school coaches that haven't lost games in 3 or 4 years since they would be "sure things" by that logic.
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No, we wouldn't be hiring high school coaches by that logic. They have to show some sort of progression (position coach to quality OC/DC, or lower level HC to mid major HC).

I'd argue that CBJ has show sucessful progression at each level and that its not a huge jump to believe he can continue being successful in the SEC.


To say nothing of the fact I think almost the whole discussion is somewhat pointless. The more I watch, the more I believe at least 75% to 80% of success in major college football now is due to sheer talent. Sure, the coaching is a very important part, but the effect of a coach can be VASTLY overrated.

Other than maybe Saban and at this point Malzahn, I don't exactly see a league full of scheme wizards.

I guess my point is I'm much more concerned with assembling talent right now (something this staff is excelling at). From watching CBJ's teams at UC/CMU I honestly don't think their schemes will look all that bad when they have some bullets in the gun.
 
#6,319
#6,319
InVOLuntary said:
Poor Dobbs is going to have to play a whole season to get his TD/INT ratio above 1. I am afraid the Vandy game may have ended it for us.
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This is a very rare thing to say and it be reasonable in recruiting but this game Saturday is huge here IMO.

The staff can shoulder the blame for dobbs last week by saying they thought they could win the game without turning him lose. They can darn sure sell that it almost worked

If dobbs has a good game this week the emphasis can be placed on all that being a coaching mistake and one that won't happen again.
 
#6,320
#6,320
KY is definitely important for Dobbs. If he can't put up some numbers against them, I don't see how he sees the field next year. On the other hand, this is our only opportunity to show Malone that we have a QB that might have the potential to be a real SEC QB.
 
#6,321
#6,321
Mike4Vols said:
It's long ... but he's right. I was hopeful this coaching staff would win some games in spite of our lesser talent. It just hasn't happened. We have puzzling gameplans and uninspiring performances.

They can recruit like champs which is way more than the last staff had going for them. Unfortunately, that seems to be all they have at the moment. The race isn't over yet, though. I'm hoping Butch learns from this awful year and makes adjustments.
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If you don't have the horses, you don't have the damn horses. And we most certainly do not have the horses. We were all stupid for begging to have Worley benched. We go to a bowl game if he were not injured and post like yours are nonexistent.
 
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#6,322
#6,322
Scotty's Flat Top said:
If you don't have the horses, you don't have the damn horses. And we most certainly do not have the horses. We were all stupid for begging to have Worley benched. We go to a bowl game if he were not injured and post like yours are nonexistent.
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I agree, we're idiots. Healthy Worley and we're bowling.
 
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#6,324
#6,324
BruinVol said:
This is a very rare thing to say and it be reasonable in recruiting but this game Saturday is huge here IMO.

The staff can shoulder the blame for dobbs last week by saying they thought they could win the game without turning him lose. They can darn sure sell that it almost worked

If dobbs has a good game this week the emphasis can be placed on all that being a coaching mistake and one that won't happen again.
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I can agree with that. The passing game has to perform at a level to at least give some ray of hope that we can get WR open, get the ball to them, and they catch it. If it's another Vandy type performance it may slam the door.
 
#6,325
#6,325
If QBs are the issue then Clemson is faaaar behind. Their QB for Josh has yet to spend a meaningful day in their program. At worst ours has experience or a year in the system against the best competition in the country. Uga vs UT battle IMO. Btw being close to the family doesn't hurt. I ain't got no worries.
 
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