NCAA trying to come down on NIL and collectives

[TheVolsFrog]

They sure aren't acting like it right now. I don't think they realize what they are doing. Once they try to limit NIL deals in ANY way, it will go back to court and the end result is now all players are on the University payroll. This means they will have to get the same benefits as all employees (healthcare, access to retirement systems, etc). This will cripple most Universities. The big boys could absorb it for a while, but the vast majority will get hammered. They just can't leave well enough alone.

Yeah they should just give it a few years and see how it plays out. I think for the most part a standard would be set.
NCAA should fix the transfer portal and maybe make commitments a 2yr thing. Coach leave, oh well. Put certain opt outs like if the school was caught cheating, coach grabbing guys balls in the shower etc. Then you could transfer out and have immediate eligibility.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

If it went that route and colleges stayed involved I think we'd see a separate breakoff league. Some makeup of the Power 5 schools that want to pay players as employees, and everyone else in another league(s) that doesn't really make money.

Yup. That's what I was getting at earlier. Power 5 schools, at least in football, will form their own league or be a club team and maybe some type of association with a college. Setting up a payment structure, contracts etc. It'll be the new NFL farm league

 

[volinSmyrna]

If it went that route and colleges stayed involved I think we'd see a separate breakoff league. Some makeup of the Power 5 schools that want to pay players as employees, and everyone else in another league(s) that doesn't really make money.

You can't really do that if the courts rule players are employees of the university they attend. If a player at UT is an employee, then a player at UT Martin has to be an employee. The NCAA had more than enough time to figure this out and settle the O'bannon case before it got to SCOTUS, but they chose to stick their head in the sand. Now they are going to literally pay the price if they try to limit NIL any further. Lock the portal down and regulate it....fine, but the second they go after the first NIL deal, it is over for them.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Yeah they should just give it a few years and see how it plays out. I think for the most part a standard would be set.
NCAA should fix the transfer portal and maybe make commitments a 2yr thing. Coach leave, oh well. Put certain opt outs like if the school was caught cheating, coach grabbing guys balls in the shower etc. Then you could transfer out and have immediate eligibility.

Transfer portal is a one time "get out of jail free" card for players. I don't think changes need to be made as far as that goes but I do think the window in which players can enter the portal needs to shrink down to a specific time period of the year. I'd say open it the day after the national championship game and leave it open until the end of July. That's a 6 month window and that gives players plenty of time to make a decision. I do NOT think the portal should be open at all during the season. This horse crap of players quitting their team mid season and entering the portal at no penalty needs to stop!

 

[TheVolsFrog]

You can't really do that if the courts rule players are employees of the university they attend. If a player at UT is an employee, then a player at UT Martin has to be an employee. The NCAA had more than enough time to figure this out and settle the O'bannon case before it got to SCOTUS, but they chose to stick their head in the sand. Now they are going to literally pay the price if they try to limit NIL any further. Lock the portal down and regulate it....fine, but the second they go after the first NIL deal, it is over for them.

Yeah you're right. They all become employees

So now the question begins to be asked is do schools continue to keep sports or just licenses their name to a clubs team(college teams that break off from the school)
Because you know womens basketball players are going to want to be paid just as much as the men players are. Because you know Title IX will be brought up.
Do you really want to have to pay the volleyball player $30K a year on top of covering their education?
If sports players are allowed to become employees, if I was a school I would probably give a good hard look at either dropping pretty much all athletics except football since there are no college female teams or dropping them all while licensing and doing other agreements to still make some money off football and basketball.

 

[butchna]

This NCAA pushback is in large part University Presidents seeing a decline in AD contributions being diverted to NIL collectives.

Another genie bottle/toothpaste cap analogy begging to be uttered. In the past you had to donate to the university and HOPE some of it made it’s way to the program.

 

[TheDeeble]

You can't really do that if the courts rule players are employees of the university they attend. If a player at UT is an employee, then a player at UT Martin has to be an employee. The NCAA had more than enough time to figure this out and settle the O'bannon case before it got to SCOTUS, but they chose to stick their head in the sand. Now they are going to literally pay the price if they try to limit NIL any further. Lock the portal down and regulate it....fine, but the second they go after the first NIL deal, it is over for them.

I'm not saying that's how I think it would play out. Only in the scenario provided. I only mean it as there would be a competitive league where players are getting paid significantly vs a much less competitive league where players, if they are getting paid, aren't getting paid much because that league isn't a big moneymaker. Most likely for a less talented athletes that can't compete at the elite levels. Players at Tennessee might be getting paid well to play competitive football. Players at Austin-Peay may not be getting paid much at all. Certainly nothing that would break their budget.

Most athletic departments are not profitable. Most school aren't the Texas, Ohio St, Alabama schools that are profiting in the 100's of millions each year.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

Either way NCAA and schools like Bama about to get a rude awakening. I get they don't want pay for play but let's be honest it's been going on under the table for years. NIL is just a way to bring it out in the open. Top recruits will get top money, while lower 3/2 stars will make less.

I know you want to jump on a problem early to keep it from becoming a bigger problem but sometimes jumping in too early makes the problem even worse and that looks like what they're doing with NIL. Instead of sitting back and letting the market self correct they're going to wind up finding they just hired a whole bunch of employees

 

[TheVolsFrog]

I'm not saying that's how I think it would play out. Only in the scenario provided. I only mean it as there would be a competitive league where players are getting paid significantly vs a much less competitive league where players, if they are getting paid, aren't getting paid much because that league isn't a big moneymaker. Most likely for a less talented athletes that can't compete at the elite levels. Players at Tennessee might be getting paid well to play competitive football. Players at Austin-Peay may not be getting paid much at all. Certainly nothing that would break their budget.

Most athletic departments are not profitable. Most school aren't the Texas, Ohio St, Alabama schools that are profiting in the 100's of millions each year.

Which is why the NCAA and Schools aren't careful they're going to wind up having new employees in the form of players now on their payroll.
It'll be that or cut sports from their school.
It could get messy

 

[butchna]

You can't really do that if the courts rule players are employees of the university they attend. If a player at UT is an employee, then a player at UT Martin has to be an employee. The NCAA had more than enough time to figure this out and settle the O'bannon case before it got to SCOTUS, but they chose to stick their head in the sand. Now they are going to literally pay the price if they try to limit NIL any further. Lock the portal down and regulate it....fine, but the second they go after the first NIL deal, it is over for them.

It’s more difficult (if not impossible) to reverse a policy after it’s been enacted. You’re basically admitting you didn’t know what you were doing but do now? I still believe the ONE TIME qualifier will balance out the madness involved. The grad transfer loophole was udderly (intentional) ridiculous and becoming oft abused. You have Quentin Dormady attending 3 different universities in 3 years under the thin auspice that HOUSTON and CENTRAL MICHIGAN offered academic opportunities unavailable at his original school? It took Kelly Bryant exactly 4 GAMES to realize that Clemson was lacking a requisite course in a degree trek he was contemplating? I’d rather kids get their wishywashiness out of their system reasonably early…jmo.

 

[Sudden Impact]

It’s impossible for the NCAA to “have balls” when the Supreme Court neutered them. This is the end result of HARD BALLING every tidbit of every lil namby pamby possibility of student athlete compensation for over half a century…adjusted for Biden level inflation! I read a biography of Bear Bryant and found it fascinating that a functionally illiterate spawn of Arkansas dirt farming ended up in Tuscaloosa after Bama won a BIDDING WAR for his services! This is circa 1930’s! Flash forward to the 2010’s, and you have this monopolistic monolith riding herd over a high school kid who starts a t-shirt business totally unrelated to his athletic status. Remember Phil Crosby? The NCAA began as a regulatory vehicle enabled by Theodore Roosevelt to eliminate the death toll from dueling Flying Wedges formations and evolved into a faux, self-annointed defender of “amateurism” whilst micro-managing a machine that generates billions of dollars. Any ADJUSTING of their pretentious methods and maybe they head this off…but they didn’t. Why? Because they’re dumbazzes who held on too tight until reality in the form of the highest court cut their hands off! So they’re waving their stumps around as if they still mattered and there are actual heretics who believe they have a say in the matter.

The NCAA went to the Supreme Court hoping that they would waive a MAGIC WAND over NIL and give them National Authority to govern NIL.
Reason(s) it did not work
Supreme Court basically stated not our problem and this is a State to State thing.
Supreme Court could not legally open up this can of worms without Lower Courts getting in on it first.
The NCAA cannot address this issue to 30+ courts because of costs and the States have home court advantage.
The NCAA cannot state in all honesty that they did their due diligence to prevent this fiasco they call of which they are complaining about at this point. A basic Failure to Act on their part to regulate or govern.
What legitimate lawsuit does the NCAA have?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/05/12/nil-rules-ncaa/

 

[butchna]

Either way NCAA and schools like Bama about to get a rude awakening. I get they don't want pay for play but let's be honest it's been going on under the table for years. NIL is just a way to bring it out in the open. Top recruits will get top money, while lower 3/2 stars will make less.

I know you want to jump on a problem early to keep it from becoming a bigger problem but sometimes jumping in too early makes the problem even worse and that looks like what they're doing with NIL. Instead of sitting back and letting the market self correct they're going to wind up finding they just hired a whole bunch of employees

Pennies on the dollar with the old bag system tho. Float a kid who grew up without, $50 k and upwards and (maybe) an extra Dodge Charger from one of your subsidiary dealerships and be anointed a saint by their families. Now that (might) lands you a meeting to PITCH a possible NIL deal to net their services. If this is allowed to continue, Nicky might have to start charging visitors to his lake mansion or egad…tap into his $10 mil plus salary to make ends meet.

 

[sjt18]

I've gone from being against NIL to believing it will create a bigger group at the top able to compete. Regardless of why you think it happened, the last 10+ seasons have produced only 2 or 3 teams per year with any serious chance of winning the BCS. Over that same period, Bama and OSU have become fixtures more or less... so really you have them and a handful of others playing for the other two spots.

NIL means that if you have a fanbase devoted to winning and willing to use a product or support a business to help the team... you have a path to competing.

The portal needs more structure. IMO there needs to be a letter of intent signed during one of two open periods each year. Maybe require a player to enter the portal before those open signing periods and make a final decision before the signing period. Example- Players can enter the portal from 12/15 to 1/15 then can sign with a new team between 1/16 and 2/15. Have a similar period at the end of spring semester.

The combination of the portal and NIL is going to result in a lot of those "diamonds in the rough" 2/3* players to moving to teams that can win championships. Having 20 or so teams that can work that puzzle isn't just a good thing... it is a GREAT thing.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Yeah they should just give it a few years and see how it plays out. I think for the most part a standard would be set.
NCAA should fix the transfer portal and maybe make commitments a 2yr thing. Coach leave, oh well. Put certain opt outs like if the school was caught cheating, coach grabbing guys balls in the shower etc. Then you could transfer out and have immediate eligibility.

Sounds like a contract which may force collective bargaining?

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Why did the Miami Collective guy immediately start deleting tweets when this all came out?



I also found Spyre's statement curiously worded. Nico is not a "University of Tennessee student athlete" until he signs his LOI. If they were totally unworried you'd think they would say "we'll keep working with high school athletes also where State law allows".



Both sides are posturing. The Supreme Court decision was not even about NIL. Things aren't as clear cut as either side would hope. I see the NCAA is keeping the PR campaign going though. Deion said something yesterday, Saban is talking again today.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

Why did the Miami Collective guy immediately start deleting tweets when this all came out?



I also found Spyre's statement curiously worded. Nico is not a "University of Tennessee student athlete" until he signs his LOI. If they were totally unworried you'd think they would say "we'll keep working with high school athletes also where State law allows".

View attachment 454594

Both sides are posturing. The Supreme Court decision was not even about NIL. Things aren't as clear cut as either side would hope. I see the NCAA is keeping the PR campaign going though. Deion said something yesterday, Saban is talking again today.

I'd be surprised if that #1 guy Deion got wasn't making NIL and Saban every time he spoke against NIL I'd bring up his Bryce Young comments along with asking why players are driving Chargers from his dealership

 

[SpookyAction]

I suspect UT us going to be the #1 punching bag for this retroactive crap rule.
So, given the university's past fighting spirit, I am not hopeful.
But I am hopeful they might have some gumption looking forward with Mr. White and Coach Heupel's regime having a new outlook and backbone.

But if they roll over again (giving up our new advantage) and let them stand on our chests, I may be done again for a while.

 

[Sudden Impact]

I suspect UT us going to be the #1 punching bag for this retroactive crap rule.
So, given the university's past fighting spirit, I am not hopeful.
But I am hopeful they might have some gumption looking forward with Mr. White and Coach Heupel's regime having a new outlook and backbone.

But if they roll over again (giving up our new advantage) and let them stand on our chests, I may be done again for a while.

If it goes to the Court, UT will not be the only Plaintiff.
NCAA is blowing Smoke at the moment hoping it will catch fire.
I don't think the NCAA can reasonably afford a battle in which they will lose.
I think the NCAA is attempting to move the Organization in a different direction and this is the only hope to do so. Self Destruction or a move to a reorganization of the NCAA.

This is a move by the NCAA for more oversight and power. (long game) What organization can you totally ignore or delay or tell to take a hike and wait for the results of a 5 year investigation that does nothing.

Kessler Welcomes NCAA NIL Fight, but Doesn’t Expect Much Action – Sportico.com

This article sums it up. We are not the only one in the boat and others will join into the fight. Lawyers love to litigate it is their job.

 

[SpookyAction]

If it goes to the Court, UT will not be the only Plaintiff.
NCAA is blowing Smoke at the moment hoping it will catch fire.
I don't think the NCAA can reasonably afford a battle in which they will lose.
I think the NCAA is attempting to move the Organization in a different direction and this is the only hope to do so. Self Destruction or a move to a reorganization of the NCAA.

This is a move by the NCAA for more oversight and power. (long game) What organization can you totally ignore or delay or tell to take a hike and wait for the results of a 5 year investigation that does nothing.

Kessler Welcomes NCAA NIL Fight, but Doesn’t Expect Much Action – Sportico.com

This article sums it up. We are not the only one in the boat and others will join into the fight. Lawyers love to litigate it is their job.

I simply worry our university has a history of going home before we fight. I hope our new leaders are better than that. I think they are.

 

[SpookyAction]

If it goes to the Court, UT will not be the only Plaintiff.
NCAA is blowing Smoke at the moment hoping it will catch fire.
I don't think the NCAA can reasonably afford a battle in which they will lose.
I think the NCAA is attempting to move the Organization in a different direction and this is the only hope to do so. Self Destruction or a move to a reorganization of the NCAA.

This is a move by the NCAA for more oversight and power. (long game) What organization can you totally ignore or delay or tell to take a hike and wait for the results of a 5 year investigation that does nothing.

Kessler Welcomes NCAA NIL Fight, but Doesn’t Expect Much Action – Sportico.com

This article sums it up. We are not the only one in the boat and others will join into the fight. Lawyers love to litigate it is their job.

Kessler Welcomes NCAA NIL Fight, but Doesn’t Expect Much Action – Sportico.com

“But the problem in that argument is that it has already been established that there is no competitive balance in FBS football or Division I basketball. And, if there is no balance, there is no balance to preserve.”

Great quote from the attorney in the article.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

If it goes to the Court, UT will not be the only Plaintiff.
NCAA is blowing Smoke at the moment hoping it will catch fire.
I don't think the NCAA can reasonably afford a battle in which they will lose.
I think the NCAA is attempting to move the Organization in a different direction and this is the only hope to do so. Self Destruction or a move to a reorganization of the NCAA.

This is a move by the NCAA for more oversight and power. (long game) What organization can you totally ignore or delay or tell to take a hike and wait for the results of a 5 year investigation that does nothing.

Kessler Welcomes NCAA NIL Fight, but Doesn’t Expect Much Action – Sportico.com

This article sums it up. We are not the only one in the boat and others will join into the fight. Lawyers love to litigate it is their job.

Everybody is posturing.

 

[Sudden Impact]

I simply worry our university has a history of going home before we fight. I hope our new leaders are better than that. I think they are.

I agree, we have a history of it in the past. Dickey got ahead of it, but since his departure there have been numerous roll overs.

Under White, I don't think this is the case. Securing the State's legislation was critical to the implementation of NIL. It changes the scenery. NCAA will have to challenge 30 States vs Cherry picking one or two out the bunch

D White will not roll over and I truly believe that NIL was actually litigated (War Game) in a manner by lawyers before UT ever went into the full NIL. Collective bargaining organization is "tomato vs tomahto" IMO.

 

[VolInNW]

I'd be surprised if that #1 guy Deion got wasn't making NIL and Saban every time he spoke against NIL I'd bring up his Bryce Young comments along with asking why players are driving Chargers from his dealership

This. I am somewhat amused with our posters in here who seem compelled to make sure it is clear to them that we deserve high scrutiny for Nico, but seem to ignore the motivations of those who are seeking that scrutiny (ahem, Jere Morehead, Nicky Saban, etc ring a bell?)

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Everybody is posturing.

Sure.

But it seems to me that that lawyers representing the players are posturing from the cupola of an Abrams battle tank with the main gun loaded and ready to fire. Meanwhile, the NCAA and certain university presidents are posturing from the front door of a cardboard house.

So there's posturing, and then posturing.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

The heads of our beloved NCAA signed a death warrant for college sports when they permitted NIL. Just a matter of time before greed and stupidity overtake college sports - which was the last bastion of true sports on the planet.
RIP NCAA

They didnt permit it..

So many comments on NIL that are completely off base. Please read and try to understand why NIL exists.
A quick synopsis
Even though fans apparently loved it- forcing someone to give up their rights to play college sports was judged illegal...but the SCOTUS.

The NCAA and ADs loved having not only cheap.labor but cheap labor with no recourse to make money.