NCAA trying to come down on NIL and collectives

#4

unfrozencvmanvol

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#4
IDK, I tried to tell some guys a few months ago. There is plenty of precedent for regulating fair market value and offering improper incentives out there. Look no further than the federal Stark and Anti-Kickback laws (not saying they apply here in this context, only that they provide a legal framework for regulating this type of thing). Doctors are recruited by hospitals and communities and those laws regulate how they can be paid. Of course, doctors can be paid through the wazoo, and that'll never change, and they won't be able to stop athletes being paid either absent Congress passing a law, however the NCAA and or the conferences can probably adapt similar rules regarding fair market value and improper incentives that would probably hold up in court, it would stop some of the blatant stuff going on. Either way, since the NCAA totally failed to provide any guidance, everyone should have grace for the period they abdicated responsibility and any agreements entered into before hand should be grandfathered in.
 
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#6
These "University administrators" need to go back and read Kavanaugh's addition to the opinion in the 9-0 ruling before they kick this can too far down the road. They will be cutting off their noses to spite their face, as the old saying goes. If they push this, it will end very badly for the universities. Once they try to limit players' opportunities to earn money, it will go right back to court where SCOTUS pretty much told them what would happen. The next step is the players becoming "employees" of the university where they will take a hefty chunk out of their budgets. I suggest they sit back down and let whoever wants to pay them whatever they want to pay them. Or else the players will have their hands in the university's pockets. It seems to me the better course of action is to regulate and restrict the Transfer Portal. That would calm the "wild west" feel we have at the moment in my opinion.
 
#7

RDU VOL#14

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#7
These "University administrators" need to go back and read Kavanaugh's addition to the opinion in the 9-0 ruling before they kick this can too far down the road. They will be cutting off their noses to spite their face, as the old saying goes. If they push this, it will end very badly for the universities. Once they try to limit players' opportunities to earn money, it will go right back to court where SCOTUS pretty much told them what would happen. The next step is the players becoming "employees" of the university where they will take a hefty chunk out of their budgets. I suggest they sit back down and let whoever wants to pay them whatever they want to pay them. Or else the players will have their hands in the university's pockets. It seems to me the better course of action is to regulate and restrict the Transfer Portal. That would calm the "wild west" feel we have at the moment in my opinion.
This. Get that under control and the rest of the stuff will eventually calm down. I think there also needs to be a little bit more clarification of what “NIL” is. NIL is being used as a term to just pay guys. I brought it up in the NCAA forum, exactly how many commercials or social media posts have you guys seen actually using players? Not many for me. I’m in North Carolina and I’ve seen Sam Howell and Wendell Moore repping Bojangles and Trevor Keels on an Instagram post for Outback Steakhouse and a tv spot for a recovery medical device. To me that’s awesome. Why not let these guys get on tv or social media and do their thing? I just don’t see many of the social media posts or tv commercials to warrant the amount of money being thrown around.
 
#8

sjt18

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#8
IDK, I tried to tell some guys a few months ago. There is plenty of precedent for regulating fair market value and offering improper incentives out there. Look no further than the federal Stark and Anti-Kickback laws (not saying they apply here in this context, only that they provide a legal framework for regulating this type of thing). Doctors are recruited by hospitals and communities and those laws regulate how they can be paid. Of course, doctors can be paid through the wazoo, and that'll never change, and they won't be able to stop athletes being paid either absent Congress passing a law, however the NCAA and or the conferences can probably adapt similar rules regarding fair market value and improper incentives that would probably hold up in court, it would stop some of the blatant stuff going on. Either way, since the NCAA totally failed to provide any guidance, everyone should have grace for the period they abdicated responsibility and any agreements entered into before hand should be grandfathered in.
I would actually not dislike this in effect... but would oppose it on principle.

I would particularly oppose the idea that a non-government, unelected organization or even universities could establish rules limiting someone's NIL potential. The reason NIL "worked" legally is that it isn't actually paying for play.

I said a while back that there might be a path to making sure there is some "deliverable" associated with an NIL payment. But the idea of a bureaucracy complete with all the inequities and corruption that naturally follow them will decide what a person's NIL is worth... is like taking cyanide to cure a headache.
 
#10

unfrozencvmanvol

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#10
I would actually not dislike this in effect... but would oppose it on principle.

I would particularly oppose the idea that a non-government, unelected organization or even universities could establish rules limiting someone's NIL potential. The reason NIL "worked" legally is that it isn't actually paying for play.

I said a while back that there might be a path to making sure there is some "deliverable" associated with an NIL payment. But the idea of a bureaucracy complete with all the inequities and corruption that naturally follow them will decide what a person's NIL is worth... is like taking cyanide to cure a headache.
I think what would occur here, if it followed a similar model to the regulations I am talking about, would be that the NCAA could adopt some rules by-laws prohibiting blatant pay for play and requiring that any compensation for NIL to be fair market value, that's what they do with doctors except with doctors it's prohibiting "pay for referrals" instead of pay for play.

The NCAA could set up some rules along this line that would probably pass legal muster, like I said there is considerable precedent, and say these are our rules, and if you don't follow them, you're ineligible, it doesn't mean you can't make money, but if you don't want to be restricted to fair market value and abide by these rules regarding improper incentives, then you can go play somewhere else. Who knows, a real minor league could pop up? The conferences could do the same thing also.

Again, either way, there needs to be amnesty for anything done to this point, because the NCAA has just completely whiffed on this to date and failed in its duty to provide any sort of order, and NIL deals which they view as "improper" under any new rules, should be grandfathered in if they were entered into up to this point.
 
#11

unfrozencvmanvol

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#11
The NCAA is over, that is why Emmert is retiring. He milked as much money as he could and now it is over. Little Nicky is sad.
Emmert is retiring because he is a huge failure and had no idea what to do next, that doesn't mean no one has a vision forward, as I referred to above, there are models for regulating this in existence, they wouldn't have to invent the wheel.
 
#12

IndianaVol

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#12
Typical NCAA knee-jerk reaction.
Analysts, pundits, and pretty much everyone has been saying that NIL will be a good thing with a few basic rules in place. Rules that would be very enforceable.
Meanwhile, the NCAA sits to the side and remains deaf and mute on the subject.

Fast forward a year and now the NCAA sees that it's becoming the 'Wild West' and how they themselves are missing out on the cash.
Of cource it wants to enact a thousand rules to regulate the NIL marketplace.
 
#13
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#13
This. Get that under control and the rest of the stuff will eventually calm down. I think there also needs to be a little bit more clarification of what “NIL” is. NIL is being used as a term to just pay guys. I brought it up in the NCAA forum, exactly how many commercials or social media posts have you guys seen actually using players? Not many for me. I’m in North Carolina and I’ve seen Sam Howell and Wendell Moore repping Bojangles and Trevor Keels on an Instagram post for Outback Steakhouse and a tv spot for a recovery medical device. To me that’s awesome. Why not let these guys get on tv or social media and do their thing? I just don’t see many of the social media posts or tv commercials to warrant the amount of money being thrown around.
There have been several autograph signings etc around Knoxville. I think the commercials and things will come in time. I know Weigels is doing some things with a couple of the baseball guys. I've seen far more tshirts with players on them so far, which is textbook NIL opportunity in my opinion.
 
#14

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#14
It seems to me the better course of action is to regulate and restrict the Transfer Portal. That would calm the "wild west" feel we have at the moment in my opinion.
This 100% Give each player one opportunity to transfer without penalty and that is all! If they want to transfer beyond that, they must sit a year.
 
#15

RDU VOL#14

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#15
There have been several autograph signings etc around Knoxville. I think the commercials and things will come in time. I know Weigels is doing some things with a couple of the baseball guys. I've seen far more tshirts with players on them so far, which is textbook NIL opportunity in my opinion.
I’m with you on that. I noted the stuff about the tshirts and autographs when I talked about it in the ncaa forum. Even DJ Ukulele scored a Dr Pepper commercial last year. Doubt he will this year, but I have zero problem with these guys being given the opportunities to be paid to rep companies . I was just pointing out that I don’t see many things like that where I live.
 
#16

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#16
It seems to me the better course of action is to regulate and restrict the Transfer Portal. That would calm the "wild west" feel we have at the moment in my opinion.
This 100% I hate the transfer portal in it's current state, perhaps even more than NIL. It makes it nearly impossible for fans to endear themselves to any of the players because they know many of them can now leave at any time. It's like the equivalent of following a minor league baseball team. The individual players almost seem irrelevant because they're so here today/gone tomorrow. I feel the same way about "one and done" college basketball players. I think they should have to play a minimum 3 years like football players do. I say give each player one opportunity to transfer without penalty and that is all! If they want to transfer beyond that, they must sit a year. I would even impose a rule saying that a player cannot transfer to a school within the same conference. Also, players should not be allowed to enter the transfer portal until AFTER the season is over!
 
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#17
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#17
This 100% I hate the transfer portal in it's current state, perhaps even more than NIL. It makes it nearly impossible for fans to endear themselves to any of the players because they know many of them can now leave at any time. It's like the equivalent of following a minor league baseball team. The individual players almost seem irrelevant because they're so here today/gone tomorrow. I feel the same way about "one and done" college basketball players. I think they should have to play a minimum 3 years like football players do. I say give each player one opportunity to transfer without penalty and that is all! If they want to transfer beyond that, they must sit a year. I would even impose a rule saying that a player cannot transfer to a school within the same conference. Also, players should not be allowed to enter the transfer portal until AFTER the season is over!
Exactly. I think they need to severely restrict the timeframe that the portal is open. Open it up the day after the February Signing Day and leave it open until May 1. This gives players an idea of where they stand from a roster standpoint after signing day and Spring practice. It also allows all of the coaching moves to settle and see if they are a good or bad fit with any new coaches. I also think it needs to be limited to the first 2 years. If you've played 3 seasons at a school, it can't be that bad. You can stick it out one more year, or try your hand in the NFL. You can only transfer after your 3rd season by way of Grad transfer. If you graduate from the university, you have fulfilled your responsibility as a student-athlete to that school and should be able to finish your eligibility wherever you want to. Just my 2 pennies worth of opinion.

Edit: I would like to add that ANY team caught tampering with a player outside of the "open portal" timeframe about transferring will receive a MINIMUM 5 scholarship reduction for the next cycle.
 
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#18

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#18
Exactly. I think they need to severely restrict the timeframe that the portal is open. Open it up the day after the February Signing Day and leave it open until May 1. This gives players an idea of where they stand from a roster standpoint after signing day and Spring practice. It also allows all of the coaching moves to settle and see if they are a good or bad fit with any new coaches. I also think it needs to be limited to the first 2 years. If you've played 3 seasons at a school, it can't be that bad. You can stick it out one more year, or try your hand in the NFL. You can only transfer after your 3rd season by way of Grad transfer. If you graduate from the university, you have fulfilled your responsibility as a student-athlete to that school and should be able to finish your eligibility wherever you want to. Just my 2 pennies worth of opinion.

Agree with all of this. Also, regarding coaching changes, I think there needs to be a rule that active coaches should not be allowed to even interview for another job until the season is over for the team he is currently coaching. To me one of the greatest injustices right now in college football is when a team has worked their asses off all season long, only to see one of their coaches leave right before the bowl game or playoffs to go coach at another school. That is a terrible disservice and un needed distraction for the school that coach is leaving from. Schools should not be allowed to interview or hire active coaches until after the season is over!
 
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#19

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#19
Exactly. I think they need to severely restrict the timeframe that the portal is open. Open it up the day after the February Signing Day and leave it open until May 1. This gives players an idea of where they stand from a roster standpoint after signing day and Spring practice. It also allows all of the coaching moves to settle and see if they are a good or bad fit with any new coaches. I also think it needs to be limited to the first 2 years. If you've played 3 seasons at a school, it can't be that bad. You can stick it out one more year, or try your hand in the NFL. You can only transfer after your 3rd season by way of Grad transfer. If you graduate from the university, you have fulfilled your responsibility as a student-athlete to that school and should be able to finish your eligibility wherever you want to. Just my 2 pennies worth of opinion.

Edit: I would like to add that ANY team caught tampering with a player outside of the "open portal" timeframe about transferring will receive a MINIMUM 5 scholarship reduction for the next cycle.
All these would be a big improvement.
 
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#20

VolPack22

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#20
This. Get that under control and the rest of the stuff will eventually calm down. I think there also needs to be a little bit more clarification of what “NIL” is. NIL is being used as a term to just pay guys. I brought it up in the NCAA forum, exactly how many commercials or social media posts have you guys seen actually using players? Not many for me. I’m in North Carolina and I’ve seen Sam Howell and Wendell Moore repping Bojangles and Trevor Keels on an Instagram post for Outback Steakhouse and a tv spot for a recovery medical device. To me that’s awesome. Why not let these guys get on tv or social media and do their thing? I just don’t see many of the social media posts or tv commercials to warrant the amount of money being thrown around.
I’ve seen the Clemson QB in the Dr Pepper commercials but that’s been about all I’ve seen.
 
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#21

Dadof2Vols

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#21
Exactly. I think they need to severely restrict the timeframe that the portal is open. Open it up the day after the February Signing Day and leave it open until May 1. This gives players an idea of where they stand from a roster standpoint after signing day and Spring practice. It also allows all of the coaching moves to settle and see if they are a good or bad fit with any new coaches. I also think it needs to be limited to the first 2 years. If you've played 3 seasons at a school, it can't be that bad. You can stick it out one more year, or try your hand in the NFL. You can only transfer after your 3rd season by way of Grad transfer. If you graduate from the university, you have fulfilled your responsibility as a student-athlete to that school and should be able to finish your eligibility wherever you want to. Just my 2 pennies worth of opinion.

Edit: I would like to add that ANY team caught tampering with a player outside of the "open portal" timeframe about transferring will receive a MINIMUM 5 scholarship reduction for the next cycle.
The first thing that has to be done is the transfer dates for going into portal and moving to a new school has to be aligned whether in conference or out of conference. Take for example Bru transferred with an announcement on May 3 and now a WR further down depth chart may want to declare but he is screwed. If you aligned all movement is open between this date a & b it will help. NCAAA days are numbered!
 
#22

Dadof2Vols

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#22
IDK, I tried to tell some guys a few months ago. There is plenty of precedent for regulating fair market value and offering improper incentives out there. Look no further than the federal Stark and Anti-Kickback laws (not saying they apply here in this context, only that they provide a legal framework for regulating this type of thing). Doctors are recruited by hospitals and communities and those laws regulate how they can be paid. Of course, doctors can be paid through the wazoo, and that'll never change, and they won't be able to stop athletes being paid either absent Congress passing a law, however the NCAA and or the conferences can probably adapt similar rules regarding fair market value and improper incentives that would probably hold up in court, it would stop some of the blatant stuff going on. Either way, since the NCAA totally failed to provide any guidance, everyone should have grace for the period they abdicated responsibility and any agreements entered into before hand should be grandfathered in.
Who gets to say what the FMV of a kid is? If the business owner in Miami feels those kids are worth that much to market his business that is between him and the athlete. I say 98% of Hollywood actors are overpaid but studios pay them. Demand creates the FMV not NCAA idiots. What are they going to do investigate 10,000 deals a year. It will take them 3 years to settle the UT case that UT investigated for them.

How can the NCAA tell a kid you can’t talk to the collective at Tennessee and Alabama so they can determine their FMV difference between the two locations?

9-0…The NCAA should have fixed this before they got their butt kicked. 9-0 only happens @ SCOTUS when you have NO case. If they mess with the athletes earning protentional again they will not only lose 9-0 but can you say punitive damages?

The NCAA is D.E.A.D…DEAD! 15 of those 200 schools going along with this proposal are in the other room plotting their conferences (SEC & Big 12) breakaway from the toothless NCAA.
 
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#23

jeff1vol

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#23
This 100% I hate the transfer portal in it's current state, perhaps even more than NIL. It makes it nearly impossible for fans to endear themselves to any of the players because they know many of them can now leave at any time. It's like the equivalent of following a minor league baseball team. The individual players almost seem irrelevant because they're so here today/gone tomorrow. I feel the same way about "one and done" college basketball players. I think they should have to play a minimum 3 years like football players do. I say give each player one opportunity to transfer without penalty and that is all! If they want to transfer beyond that, they must sit a year. I would even impose a rule saying that a player cannot transfer to a school within the same conference. Also, players should not be allowed to enter the transfer portal until AFTER the season is over!
I believe they only get one "free" transfer. After that, you have to sit a year, unless you are a grad transfer. Sorry... replied to the wrong post.
 
#24

Orange_Crush

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#24
I would actually not dislike this in effect... but would oppose it on principle.

I would particularly oppose the idea that a non-government, unelected organization or even universities could establish rules limiting someone's NIL potential. The reason NIL "worked" legally is that it isn't actually paying for play.

I said a while back that there might be a path to making sure there is some "deliverable" associated with an NIL payment. But the idea of a bureaucracy complete with all the inequities and corruption that naturally follow them will decide what a person's NIL is worth... is like taking cyanide to cure a headache.
Or a governing organization defining "fair market value" for a player's marketing? That smacks of Communism and the abuse of personal rights and liberties. People should seriously consider the power they're willing to give to nameless bureaucrats.
 
#25

sjt18

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#25
Or a governing organization defining "fair market value" for a player's marketing? That smacks of Communism and the abuse of personal rights and liberties. People should seriously consider the power they're willing to give to nameless bureaucrats.
Not sure about communism... sounds more like fascism. The economic system of fascism is/was highly regulated/taxed crony capitalism.
 

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