To Protect and to Serve II

#10,251
#10,251
utvolpj said:
Been using my same 870 since I was a teenager. All this hubbub made me pull it out of the safe, clean it up and ordered a couple parts to make sure it functions well.

Rem 1100 is also a good choice in semi @Rasputin_Vol
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I have my grandfather’s Remington Model 11. It was made in 1932 from the browning design. It is a simi automatic and still works flawlessly
I’d also recommend the new Remington V3 for a semi automatic
 
#10,252
#10,252
Pepe_Silvia said:
Well, for one, private security wouldnt have anything like qualified immunity, so they would actually be held legally accountable for any abuses they commit. Taxpayers would not be on the hook paying for the abuses committed by an officer.
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Who’s going to hold the private security accountable?
Call 911 but that number is no longer in service
 
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#10,253
#10,253
Rasputin_Vol said:
Oh, I missed this. I'm more than confident that private security forces will be held accountable for anything thing they do. Much different than what we have under the present situation with cops.
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By who? That’s my fear. We do away with the police where we still have a shot at reforming the system and sell out to businesses who can then make even more money filling up prisons that they run for profit. And guess who will be the most incarcerated......poor blacks .....that’s who.
 
#10,255
#10,255
Orangeslice13 said:
By who? That’s my fear. We do away with the police where we still have a shot at reforming the system and sell out to businesses who can then make even more money filling up prisons that they run for profit. And guess who will be the most incarcerated......poor blacks .....that’s who.
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That's a legislation issue. Get rid of all the laws that that put people in jail for victimless crimes.
 
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#10,256
#10,256
Pepe_Silvia said:
Private security would be held accountable in the courts, the same way any private entity is held accountable.

Not sure what you mean by your second sentence.
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I’m saying you’ll have even less control over private security than you do the police. Do some research on how the private sector prisons are run. You think abuse under the current system is bad. Just wait till you see the private guys.
 
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#10,257
#10,257
Pepe_Silvia said:
That's a legislation issue. Get rid of all the laws that that put people in jail for victimless crimes.
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Could not agree more with you. But I’m dealing in how I believe things are going to be as opposed to how I believe they should be.
Obviously based on my opinion
 
#10,258
#10,258
Orangeslice13 said:
I’m saying you’ll have even less control over private security than you do the police. Do some research on how the private sector prisons are run. You think abuse under the current system is bad. Just wait till you see the private guys.
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I'm willing to give the free market a chance to fix the problem. Obviously the government solution is an abject failure.
 
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#10,259
#10,259
Orangeslice13 said:
I’m saying you’ll have even less control over private security than you do the police. Do some research on how the private sector prisons are run. You think abuse under the current system is bad. Just wait till you see the private guys.
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Difference being a private security firm would have incentive to actually provide a good service. Else they’ll go out of business or lose the contract.
 
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#10,260
#10,260
Pepe_Silvia said:
I'm willing to give the free market a chance to fix the problem. Obviously the government solution is an abject failure.
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A recent pole puts 80-85% of people across all political lines in favor of police reform with oversight being placed in the hands of someone other than the police. Yet not one politician anywhere is offering any plans for reform. As to your point, you’re absolutely correct. The government has no plans to do anything any differently.
 
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#10,263
#10,263
Orangeslice13 said:
A recent pole puts 80-85% of people across all political lines in favor of police reform with oversight being placed in the hands of someone other than the police. Yet not one politician anywhere is offering any plans for reform. As to your point, you’re absolutely correct. The government has no plans to do anything any differently.
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People literally had to start burning down police stations and police cars to get the government to acknowledge any need for a change. I dont think we'll see any significant lasting change once all of this blows over.
 
#10,264
#10,264
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Yup. Competition is the key. The market will work.
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As a small business owner I am a big fan of the free market.
Dealing with governments tend to limit their effectiveness.
Look at the CDC for example. Approximately 10% of their budget goes to what you and I would consider their mission.
Look it up, you’ll be shocked at what they do with the money we the people give them
 
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#10,265
#10,265
Pepe_Silvia said:
People literally had to start burning down police stations and police cars to get the government to acknowledge any need for a change. I dont think we'll see any significant lasting change once all of this blows over.
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Now you’re speaking my language. They’re waiting and hoping for a Covid 19 spike so they can move on like this never happened
 
#10,267
#10,267
Orangeslice13 said:
As a small business owner I am a big fan of the free market.
Dealing with governments tend to limit their effectiveness.
Look at the CDC for example. Approximately 10% of their budget goes to what you and I would consider their mission.
Look it up, you’ll be shocked at what they do with the money we the people give them
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I have 0 faith in any state institution. I know I was shocked by Ben Swanns report on the actual budgets of the big city police departments. New York is literally something like 6 billion dollars. That’s insanity.
 
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#10,269
#10,269
Orangeslice13 said:
As a small business owner I am a big fan of the free market.
Dealing with governments tend to limit their effectiveness.
Look at the CDC for example. Approximately 10% of their budget goes to what you and I would consider their mission.
Look it up, you’ll be shocked at what they do with the money we the people give them
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And the CDC is woefully incompetent at their main mission. The perverse incentives of government bureaucracy will ensure the CDC gets more funding due to their failures.
 
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#10,270
#10,270
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I have 0 faith in any state institution. I know I was shocked by Ben Swanns report on the actual budgets of the big city police departments. New York is literally something like 6 billion dollars. That’s insanity.
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Government does 3 things really well.
1) extract productivity (money) from citizens
2) create lines where none would be
3) eliminate human life with ruthless efficiency
 
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#10,272
#10,272
Orangeslice13 said:
By who? That’s my fear. We do away with the police where we still have a shot at reforming the system and sell out to businesses who can then make even more money filling up prisons that they run for profit. And guess who will be the most incarcerated......poor blacks .....that’s who.
Click to expand...

Well let me step back, I'm not a proponent of getting rid of the police. I was mainly addressing that post I was replying to. There is considerable hand wringing about how we are going to hold private security accountable when right now the burning question is how do we keep police accountable right now. In either case, it is going to be an issue, but the thin blue line crew only sees it being a problem if their services are outsourced.
 
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#10,274
#10,274
Rasputin_Vol said:
Now, playing Devil's advocate... what pool of candidates will be available for these security companies? What kind of experience do you think these companies will be wanting to see on those resumes?
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That would be up to the companies. I’m sure they’d have a criteria. We could look at the threat management company in Detroit for examples.

For any of this to have the slightest chance of being successful there will need to be a significant curtailment of the criminal code in this country. Or as slice said, they’ll just fill the prisons with poor folks and drug offenders and it’ll be the same song, second verse.
 
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