Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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#113,326
#113,326
drvenner said:
Has your opinion of Dooley changed any after last year?
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They are about the same. I posted when he was hired i wasn’t ruling him out being a good coordinator. He’s a smart dude, thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room which is his problem but even after replacing arguably their best QB maybe ever and having a weird fit injury riddled kelly Bryant and a post season ban looming, they had a decent year offensively. They averaged more points, rushing yards and passing yards per game than us.
 
#113,327
#113,327
Devo182 said:
Pippen was such a monster add after 87. I almost hate he never was a standalone guy in his prime. He deserved more notice and was always in a larger shadow. Though I think he loved that group and winning with them. Total dominance.
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Doug Collins really doesn't get enough credit for the Bulls success.

30 win team when Doug arrives and really only have MJ on the squad. Wins 40 games in his first season as HC, then drafts Horace Grant & Scottie Pippen. They win 50 games in his 2nd season & 47 in his 3rd year where despite taking them to the Eastern Conference Finals he is fired after the season.

Fun fact about that 1989 Playoffs, Detroit only lost 2 games their entire run. Both to the #6 seed Bulls coached by Collins.
 
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#113,328
#113,328
MoCo_Vol said:
John is a different breed and I think he's the most underrated player to be in the NBA.

1 guy in NBA history has hit 3k steals
1 guy in NBA history has hit 13k, 14k, 15k assists

It's ridiculous that it's the same guy, that he's under 6'2" and finished with over 10 assist per game for his average while also averaging over 13 points per game. 51.5% from the field for his career and a career 38.4% from 3?

I loved watching the dude play in the 90s really wish the Jazz had managed to pull an upset of the Bulls in one of those finals.
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I was a huge Jazz fan in the 80s and 90s. Loved me some Stockton and Malone.
 
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#113,329
#113,329
HankHill said:
They are about the same. I posted when he was hired i wasn’t ruling him out being a good coordinator. He’s a smart dude, thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room which is his problem but even after replacing arguably their best QB maybe ever and having a weird fit injury riddled kelly Bryant and a post season ban looming, they had a decent year offensively. They averaged more points, rushing yards and passing yards per game than us.
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Ok. You make some ok points, but I think he was very mediocre overall as their OC. And, we beat them.
 
#113,334
#113,334
MoCo_Vol said:
Let me just stop you right there, in my opinion the thing that separates these two great players into one being better than the other is their performances in the NBA Finals.


The Chicago Bulls getting bounced in Jordan's first 3 seasons in the first round as a 7, 8, & 8 seed isn't exactly surprising since they played the 2 and 1 seed.

84-85 season the Bulls were 38-44 as a 7 seed
85-86 season the Bulls were 30-52 as a 8 seed
86-86 season the Bulls were 40-42 as a 8 seed

Lebron's worst team's seeding going into a playoffs was 4, it's not as apples to apples as you make it out to be.
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If you’re going to dismiss those, why not dismiss the finals wins after Jordan joined a 55 win team? After his first retirement the Bulls were a great team without him. That has never even been close to true with a LeBron team. LeBron carries bad teams to the finals where his bad teammates are exposed for what they are: bad players. Jordan wouldn’t replace LeBron on those teams and magically average 50 points and carry them to a win lol. That’s insane to think. The only problem is the 2011 finals, which like I said I have no excuse for lebron just was just not good
 
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#113,336
#113,336
HankHill said:
They are about the same. I posted when he was hired i wasn’t ruling him out being a good coordinator. He’s a smart dude, thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room which is his problem but even after replacing arguably their best QB maybe ever and having a weird fit injury riddled kelly Bryant and a post season ban looming, they had a decent year offensively. They averaged more points, rushing yards and passing yards per game than us.
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Yeah, but those numbers are hella skewed by their trash out of conference schedule.

537 total yards vs Wyoming
382 total yards vs West Virginia
501 total yards vs Southeast Missouri State
443 total yards vs Troy
421 total yards vs South Carolina
562 total yards vs Ole Miss
329 total yards vs Arkansas

South Carolina was the "best" defense of the above cupcakes they beat on giving up -just- 393.3 yards a game to opponents.

Against the better SEC teams they faced:
289 total yards vs Kentucky
198 total yards vs Georgia
256 total yards vs Florida
280 total yards vs Tennessee

For all our struggles only 3 teams held our offense under 300 total yards

233 total yards at Alabama
239 total yards at Florida
296 total yards vs Kentucky (despite only having 18:23 in time of possession)
 
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#113,337
#113,337
Devo182 said:
100% agree. I'm not an LBJ fan, like I was never a Kobe fan. Hell, I was never a Bulls or MJ fanboy either. But I 100% respected them all as greats. Fandom is totally separate and often inexplicable (ie Browns fans). But it's just silly when people want to downplay the greats for personal dislike and cannot separate the two realms. I dislike plenty of greats (Saban foremost) but have total respect for the elite level they have attained in their chosen profession. Some just want to hate the greats and downplay them for tangential reasons.
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Agree on everyone except Hoodie and Brady.
 
#113,339
#113,339
Volunteersforlife said:
If you’re going to dismiss those, why not dismiss the finals wins after Jordan joined a 55 win team? After his first retirement the Bulls were a great team without him. That has never even been close to true with a LeBron team. LeBron carries bad teams to the finals where his bad teammates are exposed for what they are: bad players. Jordan wouldn’t replace LeBron on those teams and magically average 50 points and carry them to a win lol. That’s insane to think. The only problem is the 2011 finals, which like I said I have no excuse for lebron just was just not good
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Pointing out seeding and win/loss numbers is "dismissing"

Interesting logic you're using today.
 
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#113,342
#113,342
Volunteersforlife said:
If you’re going to dismiss those, why not dismiss the finals wins after Jordan joined a 55 win team? After his first retirement the Bulls were a great team without him. That has never even been close to true with a LeBron team. LeBron carries bad teams to the finals where his bad teammates are exposed for what they are: bad players. Jordan wouldn’t replace LeBron on those teams and magically average 50 points and carry them to a win lol. That’s insane to think. The only problem is the 2011 finals, which like I said I have no excuse for lebron just was just not good
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Exactly
 
#113,343
#113,343
Volunteersforlife said:
If you’re going to dismiss those, why not dismiss the finals wins after Jordan joined a 55 win team? After his first retirement the Bulls were a great team without him. That has never even been close to true with a LeBron team. LeBron carries bad teams to the finals where his bad teammates are exposed for what they are: bad players. Jordan wouldn’t replace LeBron on those teams and magically average 50 points and carry them to a win lol. That’s insane to think. The only problem is the 2011 finals, which like I said I have no excuse for lebron just was just not good
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You mean the teams Lebron himself put together? Oh yeah, those heat teams were terrible with Wade and Bosh. Let me tell you
 
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#113,346
#113,346
MoCo_Vol said:
Pointing out seeding and win/loss numbers is "dismissing"

Interesting logic you're using today.
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All I was doing was inform him that losing before the finals is worse than losing in the finals. Overall, I don't feel like comparing LeBron and Michael is fair, since they played in completely different eras. Honestly, I don't think Jordan had the same feel for the game like LeBron. I won't argue that Jordan is the most skilled 1v1 player of all time, but basketball is a 5v5 sport. He almost always makes the best basketball play. It doesn't make much sense to shoot a shot if someone who has a better shot than you is open. If that doesn't make you think a little, I encourage you to go visit LeBron vs Jordan stats facing elimination in the playoffs, or even when they are in an elimination game. LeBron carries a team in a way Jordan never did, but since it is in different eras, you really cannot compare them against each other.
Imo, to think that Jordan had more of an impact for his team winning games than LeBron is insane.
 
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#113,347
#113,347
Volunteersforlife said:
If you’re going to dismiss those, why not dismiss the finals wins after Jordan joined a 55 win team? After his first retirement the Bulls were a great team without him. That has never even been close to true with a LeBron team. LeBron carries bad teams to the finals where his bad teammates are exposed for what they are: bad players. Jordan wouldn’t replace LeBron on those teams and magically average 50 points and carry them to a win lol. That’s insane to think. The only problem is the 2011 finals, which like I said I have no excuse for lebron just was just not good
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Bulls never went to a Finals without Jordan.
 
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#113,348
#113,348
Volunteersforlife said:
All I was doing was inform him that losing before the finals is worse than losing in the finals. Overall, I don't feel like comparing LeBron and Michael is fair, since they played in completely different eras. Honestly, I don't think Jordan had the same feel for the game like LeBron. I won't argue that Jordan is the most skilled 1v1 player of all time, but basketball is a 5v5 sport. He almost always makes the best basketball play. It doesn't make much sense to shoot a shot if someone who has a better shot than you is open. If that doesn't make you think a little, I encourage you to go visit LeBron vs Jordan stats facing elimination in the playoffs, or even when they are in an elimination game. LeBron carries a team in a way Jordan never did, but since it is in different eras, you really cannot compare them against each other.
Imo, to think that Jordan had more of an impact for his team winning games than LeBron is insane.
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Spittin facts
 
#113,350
#113,350
Bassmaster_Vol said:
You mean the teams Lebron himself put together? Oh yeah, those heat teams were terrible with Wade and Bosh. Let me tell you
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If you are going to use the Heat teams as a negative towards LeBrons career, would you not think that Jordan joining a 55 win Bulls team is worse than that? When he came back from his first retirement, the Bulls were still a very good team. Be honest, do you really think Jordan played better teams in the finals? Do you think if LeBron replaced him, he wouldn't have won those series? LeBron has shown his entire career that no matter what team he has, he will be competitive no matter what. You can't tell me Jordan was the same considering he left and his team went from 58 wins to 55 wins the very next season.
 
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