The Official 2nd Amendment Appreciation Thread

#7,676
#7,676
Thanks for all the input gentlemen.

I ordered my S&W M&P Shield 9mm today. Excited about that!

Gonna go with Federal 147 HST rounds for it.
 
#7,677
#7,677
GreyWolf1129 said:
Like GV said above, it seems like the .40 has more of a "snap" in the recoil impulse than the 9mm, and honestly even my .45's. That plus the reduction in rounds (as GV mentioned) and the minimal gains in ballistics (ditto).

If memory serves, wasn't the .40 developed for the FBI because the 10mm (which was all the rage back then) was just too much for some shooters?

While modern bullet design and development has narrowed, if not almost closed, the gap between the 9mm and the .45, and more rounds is never a bad idea...for me, having that big heavy 230 grain projectile that expands to .95 caliber is the right choice. 15 or 17 rounds is nice, especially is a no-holds-barred gunfight, but if I can't get it done with 8, 10 or 13 rounds (depending on the gun and mag in use), odds are that 15 wouldn't tip the scale either. Again, it's a matter of personal preference.

So for me, it's the .45 ACP.
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The .40 was developed after the 10mm went into production. It took off after (mainly) police departments wanted an uptick in ballistics over traditional "WonderNine" handguns just didn't have a great round selection. The 10mm really didn't move much after that and remained a niche round with quite the dedicated following. However, in time, ballistic research and development closed the gap on the .40 and 9mm and the additional 5+ rounds a 9mm offered along with the reduced recoil impulse and battering of the firearm itself (the .40 is notorious for beating up pistols not designed for it) they are slowly transitioning back to 9mm.

On the other hand, if for some reason HP designs are not available or illegal, a larger caliber tends to be better in the FMJ role. Bigger hole theory for disruption. A .45 would be best, but at the same time, a .40 FMJ would likely be better than a 9mm FMJ.

Again, nothing against the .40 as a caliber as it has it's pros and cons, but overall, police departments and the military should never look anywhere past the 9mm or .45 in my opinion.
 
#7,678
#7,678
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
The link GV posted has some very good defensive rounds. I don’t like .40 personally, but that’s me. I’d ask if you carry a med kid in your daily carry? If we have to send rounds out, there’s no reason to expect we or our loved ones won’t take rounds. Nothing would suck worse than watching our loved ones bleed out in front of us with no knowledge or tools to stop the bleeding. We carry life taking tools, we should also carry life saving tools. Just my opinion, for what it’s worth.

Medical Archives - Thunder Ranch
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This is a great source for medical supplies. He also has a nice collection of videos. Whatever you do, don't buy cheap tourniquets from Amazon. Make sure you but from a reputable source.

Medical Gear Outfitters
 
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#7,679
#7,679
85SugarVol said:
Thanks for all the input gentlemen.

I ordered my S&W M&P Shield 9mm today. Excited about that!

Gonna go with Federal 147 HST rounds for it.
Click to expand...
This is what I use in my .45 and my .40. I personally like the .40 but GrandVol has forgotten more than I'll ever know. I carry the .45 now anyway.
40S&W, 180GR, Elite V-Crown, JHP
 
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#7,681
#7,681
@Grand Vol

Just got home from work. Come through the door; get mobbed by the Sheperd (daily occurrence); and look up to see Upper Management standing there holding a package, and with her patented "cat that ate the canary" smile on her face.

So I open it...

IMG_1386.jpg

Just thought you should know that I blame this entirely on you.

Go Vols.
 
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#7,682
#7,682
Lol. I like the term "Upper Management". One of my favorites was Dave Feherty's "She who must be obeyed".
 
#7,683
#7,683
GreyWolf1129 said:
@Grand Vol

Just got home from work. Come through the door; get mobbed by the Sheperd (daily occurrence); and look up to see Upper Management standing there holding a package, and with her patented "cat that ate the canary" smile on her face.

So I open it...

View attachment 207824

Just thought you should know that I blame this entirely on you.

Go Vols.
Click to expand...

I can relate.

You're still a rookie though.
 
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#7,684
#7,684
My 1/9 (scoped) Colt loves the IMI 69 SMK, and I'm at a spot where I need to replace fired stock, so I stopped by SGAmmo today and filled in the gaps, then added a box of the IMI 77 SMK's. Interested to see if my gun will stabilize them.

I'm limited to 100 yards at my go-to range, but the IMI 69's are right at 1 MOA for me off of a folding table and plastic rest. I had one 5-round group you could cover with your thumb. Then again, I had a few you couldn't, so...

Rookies gonna 'rook.

:cool:
 
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#7,688
#7,688
For some time now, I have carried the Federal 62 grain SBCT (TBBC) 5.56 round as my default duty load. Pretty much everyone, especially internet ammo gurus Molon and Doc GKR, have circled this round as one of the best barrier-blind 5.56 rounds for 1/9 AR's. For longer range, I stock the IMI 69 grain SMK, which is also a highly-rated and accurate round. In-house, one 20-rd mag of TAP 55 awaits. Although the TAP 55 is an under-penetrator (fragments violently on impact), I chose it to avoid the risk of hitting an innocent in the event I miss. So for in-house, it's fine, and I have six mags of the Federal 62 right there if I need to shoot through something.

Over the past month or so, as I occasionally do, I went looking to see if I could find a better choice. Fusion MSR 62, Speer GDSP 62, TAP 62, and even a box of IMI 77 SMK just to see if I can stabilize it. From all the info I could find online, I think I already have the right rounds for the right tasks, but I figured I'd try those rounds just to see where they hit, and how hard. It turns out (according to Molon and Doc GKR) that the 69 SMK is considered a top non-barrier blind round, so I already had a good one in hand and just didn't realize it. But good ain't cheap. The Federals hover around a buck a pop, and the IMI 69 is in the .65/round range. It has taken time to build a decent inventory of both. I plink with standard 55 FMJ's, but every time I "confirm" my zeros, I'm throwing an Andrew Jackson or two down range.

If time and Wx permit, I'll post the results when I get it all done. I shoot my HD/duty AR at MPBR (50 yards), and the LR AR at 100 (100 yard zero with a Nikon P223 3-9X40 BDC scope). For those of you who do this a lot, and do it well, probably not much use to you. But for those of us who mill about hoping you'll drop something really nice, fun to play with.
 
#7,689
#7,689
GreyWolf1129 said:
For some time now, I have carried the Federal 62 grain SBCT (TBBC) 5.56 round as my default duty load. Pretty much everyone, especially internet ammo gurus Molon and Doc GKR, have circled this round as one of the best barrier-blind 5.56 rounds for 1/9 AR's. For longer range, I stock the IMI 69 grain SMK, which is also a highly-rated and accurate round. In-house, one 20-rd mag of TAP 55 awaits. Although the TAP 55 is an under-penetrator (fragments violently on impact), I chose it to avoid the risk of hitting an innocent in the event I miss. So for in-house, it's fine, and I have six mags of the Federal 62 right there if I need to shoot through something.

Over the past month or so, as I occasionally do, I went looking to see if I could find a better choice. Fusion MSR 62, Speer GDSP 62, TAP 62, and even a box of IMI 77 SMK just to see if I can stabilize it. From all the info I could find online, I think I already have the right rounds for the right tasks, but I figured I'd try those rounds just to see where they hit, and how hard. It turns out (according to Molon and Doc GKR) that the 69 SMK is considered a top non-barrier blind round, so I already had a good one in hand and just didn't realize it. But good ain't cheap. The Federals hover around a buck a pop, and the IMI 69 is in the .65/round range. It has taken time to build a decent inventory of both. I plink with standard 55 FMJ's, but every time I "confirm" my zeros, I'm throwing an Andrew Jackson or two down range.

If time and Wx permit, I'll post the results when I get it all done. I shoot my HD/duty AR at MPBR (50 yards), and the LR AR at 100 (100 yard zero with a Nikon P223 3-9X40 BDC scope). For those of you who do this a lot, and do it well, probably not much use to you. But for those of us who mill about hoping you'll drop something really nice, fun to play with.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the "good stuff" gets pretty expensive. Sometimes you get really stuck as OTM's (like the SMK) are rarely (ever?) loaded with things like flash suppressant powders. (which may or may not be consideration) If you're looking for factory options Black Hills loads a Blue Box with the 69 SMK that can generally be found cheaper than Federal's GMM. (maybe buy a box and see where they shoot in your rifle vs the GMM)

Otherwise your best practice might be getting into reloading and work up ballistic analogues for your "business" rounds.
 
#7,690
#7,690
hndog609 said:
Yeah, the "good stuff" gets pretty expensive. Sometimes you get really stuck as OTM's (like the SMK) are rarely (ever?) loaded with things like flash suppressant powders. (which may or may not be consideration) If you're looking for factory options Black Hills loads a Blue Box with the 69 SMK that can generally be found cheaper than Federal's GMM. (maybe buy a box and see where they shoot in your rifle vs the GMM)

Otherwise your best practice might be getting into reloading and work up ballistic analogues for your "business" rounds.
Click to expand...

Good advice. Thanks.

Back in the '90's, I reloaded .45 ACP. Started out with a Lee single-stage, then ended up with a Lee progressive. Took awhile to figure out the primer loader, powder box, etc, and get everything flowing smoothly, but I finally got to where I could turn out a lot of ammo on the cheap.

Thinking back to all the time and effort I put into getting it right, I'd rather lean on this forum, the internet, and a trial box of ammo here and there. At my age, using my time wisely is more important than how much money I save.

And I've heard that Black Hills is top-shelf, so I'll give it a look.

Thanks for the response.
 
#7,691
#7,691
GreyWolf1129 said:
Good advice. Thanks.

Back in the '90's, I reloaded .45 ACP. Started out with a Lee single-stage, then ended up with a Lee progressive. Took awhile to figure out the primer loader, powder box, etc, and get everything flowing smoothly, but I finally got to where I could turn out a lot of ammo on the cheap.

Thinking back to all the time and effort I put into getting it right, I'd rather lean on this forum, the internet, and a trial box of ammo here and there. At my age, using my time wisely is more important than how much money I save.

And I've heard that Black Hills is top-shelf, so I'll give it a look.

Thanks for the response.
Click to expand...

Do note the difference between the blue vs red box. Blue is BH's version of factory reloads.
 
#7,692
#7,692
61473690_650522448748787_2226916349425221632_n.jpg
 
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#7,694
#7,694
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Solid.
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You need to follow Vitaliy Maksimov on facebook. It's where I get 90% of my political memes (cue the jokes about how my memes are terrible from people that can't laugh at their own party). He's such a weird, hilarious, vigilant, God-fearing libertarian provocateur. He's a Russian immigrant, engineer, pilot, and gun enthusiast who will wear TSA shirts with swastikas through airport security just to troll them.
 
#7,695
#7,695
n_huffhines said:
You need to follow Vitaliy Maksimov on facebook. It's where I get 90% of my political memes (cue the jokes about how my memes are terrible from people that can't laugh at their own party). He's such a weird, hilarious, vigilant, God-fearing libertarian provocateur. He's a Russian immigrant, engineer, pilot, and gun enthusiast who will wear TSA shirts with swastikas through airport security just to troll them.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good time, I’ll check it out.
 
#7,697
#7,697
hndog609 said:
Yeah, the "good stuff" gets pretty expensive. Sometimes you get really stuck as OTM's (like the SMK) are rarely (ever?) loaded with things like flash suppressant powders. (which may or may not be consideration) If you're looking for factory options Black Hills loads a Blue Box with the 69 SMK that can generally be found cheaper than Federal's GMM. (maybe buy a box and see where they shoot in your rifle vs the GMM)

Otherwise your best practice might be getting into reloading and work up ballistic analogues for your "business" rounds.
Click to expand...

I've tried the Black Hills remanufactured 69s. It is pretty decent stuff. I've never been able to get it to group better that the IMI and I've never seen it cheaper.

Where are you getting it? If I can get it cheaper than IMI, I'd definitely use it often at the shorter distances from say 400 to 600 yards.
 
#7,698
#7,698
I'm very "KISS" when it comes to ammo. I'm looking for the best round, both .45 ACP and 5.56 (all I own. Upper Management has a .38), for the sole purpose of stopping a determined aggressor. On duty or off. In house or at 100 yards. Day or night. Worst conditions, best round.

I'm sold on the Federal 230 grain HST round for the .45 ACP. There are other good choices, but that's mine.

Same with the Federal 5.56 62 grain SBCT. And the IMI 69 SMK for longer ranges (>100 yards). I was surprised to learn that the 69 SMK is still a top-rated non-barrier blind round. Glad I already had it in my inventory.

I'll shoot the ammo I ordered just to see the difference. I'm interested to see if my 1/9 Colt will stabilize the 77 SMK's. If not, I already know the 69's are tack drivers in my rifle(s).

I'll keep the 55 TAP (for now) based solely on the fact that it won't go across the street and kill the neighbors' poodle. But if the 69 SMK does the same thing, then why stock 3 rounds when 2 will do? KISS.

Stay tuned...
 
#7,699
#7,699
txbo said:
I've tried the Black Hills remanufactured 69s. It is pretty decent stuff. I've never been able to get it to group better that the IMI and I've never seen it cheaper.

Where are you getting it? If I can get it cheaper than IMI, I'd definitely use it often at the shorter distances from say 400 to 600 yards.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but didn't IMI discontinue the 69gr?
 
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