The Official 2nd Amendment Appreciation Thread

YankeeVol

Raise Hell Eat Cornbread
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
109,145
Likes
21,836
So after this most recent purchase, I need another sight. I got the Vortex Spitfire 3x for one of them (haven't decided to put it on the Saint or the RDB). I may just end up picking up another Spitfire.
 

DEFENDTHISHOUSE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
20,670
Likes
12,736
So after this most recent purchase, I need another sight. I got the Vortex Spitfire 3x for one of them (haven't decided to put it on the Saint or the RDB). I may just end up picking up another Spitfire.
Funny story about the spitfire. A friend of mine bought a Colt AR and a vortex spitfire. He’s pretty new to guns. He asked me to help him sight it in. I took it out of the box and mounted it. I shot a 3 round group at 50 yards. The damn thing was point of aim, point of impact. It was zeroed out of the box. I didn’t have to change anything. I confirmed zero at 100 yards and we started ringing steel at 200. Good stuff.
 

YankeeVol

Raise Hell Eat Cornbread
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
109,145
Likes
21,836
Funny story about the spitfire. A friend of mine bought a Colt AR and a vortex spitfire. He’s pretty new to guns. He asked me to help him sight it in. I took it out of the box and mounted it. I shot a 3 round group at 50 yards. The damn thing was point of aim, point of impact. It was zeroed out of the box. I didn’t have to change anything. I confirmed zero at 100 yards and we started ringing steel at 200. Good stuff.
A. They have a lifetime warranty
B. They have a hell of a military discount
 

GreyWolf1129

I'm so stealthy even I don't know where I am.
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
5,818
Likes
3,963
Redneck Range Report

So I finally got out to the range. Took my HD AR and some different ammo just to see what it does. Completely non-scientific. Colt 6721, 50 yards, kneeling off of a plastic benchrest on a folding table (!), 10-shot strings at roughly 1 round per second, Aimpoint PRO.

(1) Federal 62gr JSP (SBCT): This is one of the top-rated barrier blind rounds. Fairly tight group, one flyer, and roughly 2 MOA. This was the first group I shot, and things seemed to "tighten up" once the barrel got warm.
(2) Federal Fusion 62gr JSP: About the same as the Federal 62gr SBCT. A generally "tighter" group, but I'd say it's 1-2 MOA.
(3) Speer 62gr GDSP: Again, about the same size group.
(4) IMI 69gr SMK: This, gentlemen, is some accurate, consistent ammo. I punched a ragged hole at 50 yards, and that was firing one round after another as soon as the dot was in the ring. Extreme spread was right at an inch under those conditions. This is easily 1 MOA ammo in my gun (1/9).
(5) Hornady 55gr TAP: This is (was) my default in-house defense round. It's 1-2 MOA ammo, but then again this ammo is for shots in the 10-20 foot range, so MOA is N/A. After finding out that the 69gr SMK is one of the best non-barrier blind HD rounds, I'm going to shoot up the rest of my 55gr TAP, and go with the 69gr SMK's in-house.
(6) Annnnd I completely forgot about the box of IMI 77gr SMK's I bought just to see if my rifle would stabilize them. Next time...

So I confirmed my zero, and I'm content to stick with the Federal 62 JSP's (SBCT) for HD/SD work (although at .90/round, it's ten bucks every time I confirm my zero)...and the IMI 69 SMK's for everything else. I'll still shoot the 55gr solids for general plinking, but when it counts I want to know I'm sending nothing but the best down range.

Y'all keep 'em straight out there.....
 

txbo

Never worked for a Vandy grad
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
4,991
Likes
3,498
Redneck Range Report

So I finally got out to the range. Took my HD AR and some different ammo just to see what it does. Completely non-scientific. Colt 6721, 50 yards, kneeling off of a plastic benchrest on a folding table (!), 10-shot strings at roughly 1 round per second, Aimpoint PRO.

(1) Federal 62gr JSP (SBCT): This is one of the top-rated barrier blind rounds. Fairly tight group, one flyer, and roughly 2 MOA. This was the first group I shot, and things seemed to "tighten up" once the barrel got warm.
(2) Federal Fusion 62gr JSP: About the same as the Federal 62gr SBCT. A generally "tighter" group, but I'd say it's 1-2 MOA.
(3) Speer 62gr GDSP: Again, about the same size group.
(4) IMI 69gr SMK: This, gentlemen, is some accurate, consistent ammo. I punched a ragged hole at 50 yards, and that was firing one round after another as soon as the dot was in the ring. Extreme spread was right at an inch under those conditions. This is easily 1 MOA ammo in my gun (1/9).
(5) Hornady 55gr TAP: This is (was) my default in-house defense round. It's 1-2 MOA ammo, but then again this ammo is for shots in the 10-20 foot range, so MOA is N/A. After finding out that the 69gr SMK is one of the best non-barrier blind HD rounds, I'm going to shoot up the rest of my 55gr TAP, and go with the 69gr SMK's in-house.
(6) Annnnd I completely forgot about the box of IMI 77gr SMK's I bought just to see if my rifle would stabilize them. Next time...

So I confirmed my zero, and I'm content to stick with the Federal 62 JSP's (SBCT) for HD/SD work (although at .90/round, it's ten bucks every time I confirm my zero)...and the IMI 69 SMK's for everything else. I'll still shoot the 55gr solids for general plinking, but when it counts I want to know I'm sending nothing but the best down range.

Y'all keep 'em straight out there.....
At 50 yards you would need to shoot .53 inch groups to be MOA. The IMI 69 is certainly capable of that with the right conditions.
 

GreyWolf1129

I'm so stealthy even I don't know where I am.
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
5,818
Likes
3,963
At 50 yards you would need to shoot .53 inch groups to be MOA. The IMI 69 is certainly capable of that with the right conditions.
Yep, I'm aware. My point was that I was shooting from a relatively unstable rest, firing 10-shot strings in roughly 10-15 seconds (reacquire and fire), and still getting decent results.

I'm no skilled marksman, by any measure. If I'm ever in a situation where I need to use that rifle, odds are that I'm gonna be so hyped up it would be tough to hit a barn from the inside. So when I shoot, I like to go fast to see where things go. Same with my .45's...move and shoot. Two center mass, one downstairs.

You have to expect 2-3 MOA accuracy from any serious barrier-blind round. But man, did that IMI ammo ever impress me. Like you said, under the right conditions, that's MOA ammo, even for me.

I need a day on the range. Fun day, and I learned a couple of things.
 

txbo

Never worked for a Vandy grad
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
4,991
Likes
3,498
Yep, I'm aware. My point was that I was shooting from a relatively unstable rest, firing 10-shot strings in roughly 10-15 seconds (reacquire and fire), and still getting decent results.

I'm no skilled marksman, by any measure. If I'm ever in a situation where I need to use that rifle, odds are that I'm gonna be so hyped up it would be tough to hit a barn from the inside. So when I shoot, I like to go fast to see where things go. Same with my .45's...move and shoot. Two center mass, one downstairs.

You have to expect 2-3 MOA accuracy from any serious barrier-blind round. But man, did that IMI ammo ever impress me. Like you said, under the right conditions, that's MOA ammo, even for me.

I need a day on the range. Fun day, and I learned a couple of things.
Good for you Wolf. I'm leaving work and heading to the range myself. I'll actually be dumping a few hundred rounds of IMI downrange myself today. Doing the JP Challenge with a couple friends.
 

YankeeVol

Raise Hell Eat Cornbread
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
109,145
Likes
21,836
Yep, I'm aware. My point was that I was shooting from a relatively unstable rest, firing 10-shot strings in roughly 10-15 seconds (reacquire and fire), and still getting decent results.

I'm no skilled marksman, by any measure. If I'm ever in a situation where I need to use that rifle, odds are that I'm gonna be so hyped up it would be tough to hit a barn from the inside. So when I shoot, I like to go fast to see where things go. Same with my .45's...move and shoot. Two center mass, one downstairs.

You have to expect 2-3 MOA accuracy from any serious barrier-blind round. But man, did that IMI ammo ever impress me. Like you said, under the right conditions, that's MOA ammo, even for me.

I need a day on the range. Fun day, and I learned a couple of things.
Put enough rounds down range, plenty should hit the target 🤣
 

GreyWolf1129

I'm so stealthy even I don't know where I am.
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
5,818
Likes
3,963
Put enough rounds down range, plenty should hit the target 🤣
Ha!!! Yep, what you lack in accuracy, make up for in volume. I like it!

Obviously joking there, as we all know you are responsible for every round you shoot, but it was funny to see YV call me out in jest.

That's what we tell the students in our Marine classes when we do Marlinspike (knots, bends, and hitches). "If you can't tie a knot, tie a lot."

Them chickens came home to roost, huh?
 

GreyWolf1129

I'm so stealthy even I don't know where I am.
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
5,818
Likes
3,963
@DEFENDTHISHOUSE

Have a limited window for range time tomorrow. Plan to shoot AR #2 (scoped) to dial it in at 100 yards for the Nikon P223 BDC scope (3-9X40). With IMI 69 SMK's.

I bought a box of IMI 77 SMK's just to see if my 1/9 would stabilize them. I know about looking for the "keyhole", but is there any other clue that my gun won't stabilize that round out to its' "lethality potential" of ~300 yards?

I'll hang up and listen...
 

DEFENDTHISHOUSE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
20,670
Likes
12,736
@DEFENDTHISHOUSE

Have a limited window for range time tomorrow. Plan to shoot AR #2 (scoped) to dial it in at 100 yards for the Nikon P223 BDC scope (3-9X40). With IMI 69 SMK's.

I bought a box of IMI 77 SMK's just to see if my 1/9 would stabilize them. I know about looking for the "keyhole", but is there any other clue that my gun won't stabilize that round out to its' "lethality potential" of ~300 yards?

I'll hang up and listen...
Erratic groups, possible keyhole-ing. Every rifle and chamber is different. You never know what it will do until you try.

Enjoy your time at the range.
 

GreyWolf1129

I'm so stealthy even I don't know where I am.
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
5,818
Likes
3,963
Erratic groups, possible keyhole-ing. Every rifle and chamber is different. You never know what it will do until you try.

Enjoy your time at the range.
So here's the data. Again, completely non-scientific. I just go shoot.

As we already knew from AR#1, the Colt 6721, or at least both of mine, absolutely loves the IMI 69 grain SMK. With the scoped rifle, MOA groups at 100 yards are childs play.

As for the 77 grain SMK's, no key holing, but the group opened up just enough for me to say that although it might stabilize the 77's, it's more accurate with the 69's.

So, for me...the IMI 69 SMK is the default load for long range shots (100-300 yards). Based on what I saw at 100 yards, I'm confident I can hit a 6" diameter circle all day at 300 yards. Although that round might be lethal out to anywhere approaching 600 yards, I'd say 300 is where you start thinking about a .308 instead of a 5.56. That's just me. And for me, and what I own those rifles for, 300 yards is plenty enough.

Thanks for the help. I am now (again) dialed in on both AR's at what would be "working ranges" for both rifles. Got my zeros right, and my ammo right. Now I sit back and hope I never need any of it.
 

DEFENDTHISHOUSE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
20,670
Likes
12,736
So here's the data. Again, completely non-scientific. I just go shoot.

As we already knew from AR#1, the Colt 6721, or at least both of mine, absolutely loves the IMI 69 grain SMK. With the scoped rifle, MOA groups at 100 yards are childs play.

As for the 77 grain SMK's, no key holing, but the group opened up just enough for me to say that although it might stabilize the 77's, it's more accurate with the 69's.

So, for me...the IMI 69 SMK is the default load for long range shots (100-300 yards). Based on what I saw at 100 yards, I'm confident I can hit a 6" diameter circle all day at 300 yards. Although that round might be lethal out to anywhere approaching 600 yards, I'd say 300 is where you start thinking about a .308 instead of a 5.56. That's just me. And for me, and what I own those rifles for, 300 yards is plenty enough.

Thanks for the help. I am now (again) dialed in on both AR's at what would be "working ranges" for both rifles. Got my zeros right, and my ammo right. Now I sit back and hope I never need any of it.
It’s always nice to know what we’ve got and how to use it. Cheers.
 

GreyWolf1129

I'm so stealthy even I don't know where I am.
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
5,818
Likes
3,963
It’s always nice to know what we’ve got and how to use it. Cheers.
Agreed. You know who I am and what I do. Although I mostly work weekends, I do pull day shifts here and there when they need a fill-in. There's one elementary school in my usual zone, and so I have made it my business to know that school floor plan by heart. I know all of the entry points where I can get in, including coming in through the cafeteria, popping a window, etc. Lord willing, there won't be a Sandy Hook, Columbine, or MSD on my watch. My neighbors have kids who go there. I'm going in.

We do Active Shooter drills 4 times a year, with role-player victims, single and multiple assailants, and Simunitions. I make it a point to always make that training. I have a go-bag with 6 spare AR mags, 2 IFAK's, a backup handgun and two mags, a spare flashlight, pup knife, and a couple of bottles of water. My primary AR is set up for CQB, or out to 100 yards. So I have the right gear, and I know the gun will perform well within the necessary parameters. All that remains is for Wautash to remember his tactics, and his training. History has shown that I'm plenty stupid enough to charge into the fight.

I figure I've got another year, maybe two, left in me before it's time to hang it up for good. Let's hope that day never comes. For any of us. But if it does, failing to prepare is preparing to fail, so...
 

GreyWolf1129

I'm so stealthy even I don't know where I am.
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
5,818
Likes
3,963
I miss Grand posting in here. The old fart was cantankerous but I enjoyed having him around. Great resource too.
He'll be back, eventually. We all need a break from time to time, and this is his time.

Never met him, but he's done me a lot of good, and I'd drink a beer with him anywhere.

"Old Farts" don't get to be old because they are slow or stupid. Best to leave them alone. They have nothing to prove; they'll just shoot you to get it over with quickly.

;)
 

VN Store



Sponsors
 

Top