Mass shooting of the week, high school in parkland, FL.

#1,077
#1,077
82_VOL_83 said:
Find one person in this entire FORUM much less thread who has said that they should. But that isn't your position. Like a good little liberal progressive, you are changing your narrative to fit the argument. Our argument has been no more GUN control laws. You only see that as us saying "don't take our guns". The real issue is how to stop someone as obviously deranged as this guy was from purchasing a firearm and that is going to take a whole lot of bending from your side and a whole lot of bending on our side that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with limiting what guns are for sale.
Click to expand...

Never have I changed my argument. You have literally stated that you want NO MORE GUN CONTROL LAWS. Now, your telling me that you are open to figuring out how to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill. Probably gonna need some new laws or at least a heavy tweaking of old laws.

It is you with inconsistencies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#1,079
#1,079
ClearwaterVol said:
Never have I changed my argument. You have literally stated that you want NO MORE GUN CONTROL LAWS. Now, your telling me that you are open to figuring out how to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill. Probably gonna need some new laws or at least a heavy tweaking of old laws.

It is you with inconsistencies.
Click to expand...

You're one of the good guys that can be swayed with logic and reason. No sense in dropping down to the level where you currently are.
 
#1,080
#1,080
Grand Vol said:
You're one of the good guys that can be swayed with logic and reason. No sense in dropping down to the level where you currently are.
Click to expand...

He has been respectful and shown more class than anyone he has talked with and you want to give him a backhanded insult.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#1,081
#1,081
OuterBanksVol said:
Gun buyback.

"...the Australian government “banned automatic and semiautomatic firearms, adopted new licensing requirements, established a national firearms registry, and instituted a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases. It also bought and destroyed more than 600,000 civilian-owned firearms, in a scheme that cost half a billion dollars and was funded by raising taxes.” The entire overhaul, Friedman pointed out, took just months to implement."

"...The number of mass shootings in Australia—defined as incidents in which a gunman killed five or more people other than himself, which is notably a higher casualty count than is generally applied for tallying mass shootings in the U.S.—dropped from 13 in the 18-year period before 1996 to zero after the Port Arthur massacre. Between 1995 and 2006, gun-related homicides and suicides in the country dropped by 59 percent and 65 percent, respectively, though these declines appear to have since leveled off. Two academics who have studied the impact of the reform initiative estimate that the gun-buyback program saves at least 200 lives each year, according to The New York Times."

How Australia Restricted Guns After a 1996 Massacre - The Atlantic
Click to expand...

Everyone wants to use Australia as the gold standard for gun control. The actions taken in Australia have been effective and have decreased the amount of gun violence which is going to be inherent if you ban certain types of guns and exterminate guns. This is good Australia has effectively eliminated mass murders due to guns. The problem is that all they were able to eliminate within the first 7 years. Within the first 7 years the homicide rate in Australia either grew, was the same or was just less than the rate in 1996. One would expect that you take away the guns that you would see an instantaneous drop in homicides because you have taken away the most potent weapon of destruction in society. What they saw actually was an increase in homicides in 1997 and 1999. So we eliminated the weapon of destruction so why didn't it decrease? What Australia failed to see is that even though they had the massacre in 1996 gun deaths were by a significant margin the second leading cause of homicides to knives and blades. After the gun bans homicides due to knives and blades in Australia increased.

So all they did is take the homicidal bean and moved it to another column and called it progress because the original column was decreased. If we enact something like this what we will find out is that killers are going to kill no matter what the method is. That kid had deep rooted anger to the point that he was going to kill if it wasn't a gun it was going to be homemade bomb, knife, or any other weapon.

The real questions now are:

1.) How can we better equip schools to identify kids who could be going down this path? What counseling techniques can they provide to help the kid? This kid was disturbed to the point where other kids were saying that if there was anyone to shoot up a school it would be him. How in the world could this be true and not one single teacher identified it and intervened?!

2.) In the interim until we find a solution to number 1 how do we better protect schools. Do we need to equip schools with metal detectors, cameras and locks to where everyone who enters is screened beforehand? This kid was seen as a threat when he was in the school to the point where he couldn't be on campus with a backpack and he was able to just enter the school unnoticed and fade into the crowd? They have video cameras inside the school that the authorities used to capture him with. How was someone not monitoring the camera feeds?

3.) What changes do we make in the FBI to make sure all threats are properly investigated? The excuse I heard from the FBI is that they were unable to trace his post on YouTube back to the original sender. If you can not do that how in the world are you tracking down Russia's supposed cyber threats to the US? Get off your dang vandetta in trying to uncover crap on politicians that may not be there and keep our citizens safe!

Sorry for the long post but this is so frustrating that we can't get our heads out of our behinds to get past the political nonsense and start getting to the real reasons why these keep on happening.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#1,085
#1,085
Grand Vol said:
You're one of the good guys that can be swayed with logic and reason. No sense in dropping down to the level where you currently are.
Click to expand...

You say that as if logic and reason would sway him in your direction. Maybe it's just that logic and reason has the opposite effect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#1,087
#1,087
Mick said:
He has been respectful and shown more class than anyone he has talked with and you want to give him a backhanded insult.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but the conversation between CWV and I is a January and February affair.

Kindly March your way on out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#1,088
#1,088
82_VOL_83 said:
How do you gain this authority to actually make a sweeping statement like that? Do you own one? Have you shot one? Have you gone coyote hunting with one? Have you spent an afternoon with your wife and son on the range teaching safety, respect, and how to handle the weapon?

Per your statement I would say no and that makes you ignorant.
Click to expand...

I don't own a tank or bazooka either, but they too are instruments of warfare. My buddy gave me a demo of his AR over Christmas break... shot 30 rounds with a bump stock in a matter of seconds. Blew up a bunch of huge ice chunks that he hauled out of his pond. It was really cool. But, again, he doesn't NEED that gun.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#1,090
#1,090
luthervol said:
You say that as if logic and reason would sway him in your direction. Maybe it's just that logic and reason has the opposite effect.
Click to expand...

Actually, logic and reason has swayed him to my side and mine to him.

This is what happens when adults have a reasonable conversation and don't let emotion into it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#1,091
#1,091
82_VOL_83 said:
Find one person in this entire FORUM much less thread who has said that they should. But that isn't your position. Like a good little liberal progressive, you are changing your narrative to fit the argument. Our argument has been no more GUN control laws. You only see that as us saying "don't take our guns". The real issue is how to stop someone as obviously deranged as this guy was from purchasing a firearm and that is going to take a whole lot of bending from your side and a whole lot of bending on our side that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with limiting what guns are for sale.
Click to expand...

Serious question and this comes from my ignorance of guns. Whenever you go buy a gun isn't there a background check? Can doctors be involved in this process? giving a green light to stores to sell guns to that family (if everyone is stable).
I feel someone should carry out a detailed research on gun violence. There is a research on whether freaking mosquitoes like cheese or not (not kidding). We can at least invest in something that really matters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#1,092
#1,092
Squints said:
When you find an inanimate object that can willfully and successfully carry out a murdering spree, then your “gotcha” argument can be discussed.
Click to expand...

This is just a poor argument because there are a host of inanimate objects that are regulated and that without human intervention could not cause any damage. ie radio active material. Guns are no different.

Squints said:
I’ll acknowledge there is a problem, but I use common sense to navigate it, not a politically aligned, narrative-driven approach.
Click to expand...

Good, then let's have some civil discourse.


Squints said:
And if access is the problem, what are your plans for vehicles, homemade pipe bombs, hardware/tools, chemical agents, etc.? The point is, if anyone has the desire to murder, limiting their options will only enhance their creativity.
Click to expand...

Must I attack all problems at once? You've admitted there is and issue and yet you seem unwilling to discuss a solution unless we address every other manner in which a terrorist might carry out an attack. I don't and never have been in favor of banning "assault rifles" etc. I do want better background checks that include the mental health of the prospective gun owner. I am not operating under the impression that it will prevent all attacks, but, as you acknowledge it will prevent some.

Squints said:
Please, counsel, let’s hear how you preclude these acts by limiting access?

You don’t!
Click to expand...

I don't want to limit access to mentally healthy adults.



Squints said:
I’m not going to type out my thoughts entirely, but the debate starts and ends in these distinctly separate, but overlapping, areas:

-Mental illness
-Media coverage
-Cultural/societal indoctrination
-Poor LEO/FBI judgment and inaction

See, there’s plenty of blame to go around.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Lots of blame. I would want more components that simply writing new gun laws. We need to evaluate our mental health programs and we need to evaluate whether we are over medicated our children. We have enough of these school shooters now to study and determine common threads in each.

However, guns access is definitely a part of the issue that bears discussing.


Squints said:
I’m not the one refusing to answer questions or discuss it, then, in true richard noggin’ fashion, level ad hominem attacks because I don’t have answers.
Click to expand...

You don't get to level personal attacks while chiding others for doing the same.

Squints said:
See bold above. I have asked you multiple times and gave you directions to the post, and you still refused. So, as I said, if you don’t want to discuss it, move tf along.
Click to expand...

Okay, I have addressed most of what is in your posts numerous times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#1,093
#1,093
Carl Pickens said:
I agree..... I haven't even made a post in this thread until now. It's a horrible thing and left me at a loss for words. There's no quick easy solution.
Click to expand...

I couldn't begin to fathom the heartache the families of these kids are enduring right now. I find it difficult to see there faces, hear there names and learn there stories. It's numbing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#1,095
#1,095
OuterBanksVol said:
I don't own a tank or bazooka either, but they too are instruments of warfare. My buddy gave me a demo of his AR over Christmas break... shot 30 rounds with a bump stock in a matter of seconds. Blew up a bunch of huge ice chunks that he hauled out of his pond. It was really cool. But, again, he doesn't NEED that gun.
Click to expand...

You can legally own a tank, don't even need a special permit. A bazooka? That's old tech.

Plus, don't tell me what I need and I will reciprocate.
 
#1,097
#1,097
luthervol said:
So sad and pathetic.....You may be the most easily manipulated person I've encountered on the PF.

There has never been and will never be an attempt to ban all guns.
Click to expand...

You saying that is like a 2 year old telling me that I am mean. Rather laughable. Your sad attempt to limit what can be purchased, when they can be used, the permits that you have to get to purchase, the exorbitant taxes on ammo, and carrying heavy insurance policies that you and your ilk have suggested is in essence a ban. It is a ban enforced by extremely limited usage. Maybe we should do that to tobacco, alcohol, and cars. Just put a 1000% tax on them and further limit when and where they can be used. We would all be healthy and safe and riding bicycles in 5 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#1,100
#1,100
ClearwaterVol said:
Never have I changed my argument. You have literally stated that you want NO MORE GUN CONTROL LAWS. Now, your telling me that you are open to figuring out how to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill. Probably gonna need some new laws or at least a heavy tweaking of old laws.

It is you with inconsistencies.
Click to expand...

Keeping them out of the hands of the mentally ill and leaving LEGAL ownership alone is not my definition of new gun control laws. If you want to limit who can pass a background check, then do so. Figure out how to do this in a manner that is more transparent than the travel restrictions though because your boys have been an epic failure at that one.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement





Back
Top