Mass shooting of the week, high school in parkland, FL.

[Grand Vol]

Perhaps, and I am just spit balling here, it has become harder to distinguish the good guys from the bad.

Even you don't believe this nonsense you just posted.

 

[Squints]

When you find an inanimate object that can willfully and successfully carry out a murdering spree, then your “gotcha” argument can be discussed.

I’ll acknowledge there is a problem, but I use common sense to navigate it, not a politically aligned, narrative-driven approach.

And if access is the problem, what are your plans for vehicles, homemade pipe bombs, hardware/tools, chemical agents, etc.? The point is, if anyone has the desire to murder, limiting their options will only enhance their creativity.

Please, counsel, let’s hear how you preclude these acts by limiting access?

You don’t!

I’m not going to type out my thoughts entirely, but the debate starts and ends in these distinctly separate, but overlapping, areas:

-Mental illness
-Media coverage
-Cultural/societal indoctrination
-Poor LEO/FBI judgment and inaction

See, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

You're not very good at this. My position has been and remains that some tighter controls would prevent some of these atrocities. In your first paragraph, you've agreed with me, albeit you said I was entirely wrong while agreeing with me.

Secondly, I don't know which questions to which you refer. I have just seen a steady stream of douchbaggery from you.

I’m not the one refusing to answer questions or discuss it, then, in true richard noggin’ fashion, level ad hominem attacks because I don’t have answers.

See bold above. I have asked you multiple times and gave you directions to the post, and you still refused. So, as I said, if you don’t want to discuss it, move tf along.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Perhaps, and I am just spit balling here, it has become harder to distinguish the good guys from the bad.

If you weren't so scared of the tools, then you wouldn't have that issue. You can't get past my CZ on my hip to see the guy with the AR getting ready to shoot you across the hall. The main and I do mean MAIN issue with gun control nuts is that they are scared of guns.....period. You are scared they will jump up and bite you and kill you and your kids, explode and blow up half of the neighborhood. Literally that scared. It's the fear of the gun and not the shooter that paralyzes the left into not being able to have a rational discussion about how to stop this crap.

 

[Septic]

This thread is tiresome. Kids are dead because of a lunatic with a gun. It takes two to tango, neither side in this is entirely wrong and neither side is entirely right.

 

[Mick]

Then I guess we need to abolish the 2nd Amendment entirely, hire way more police so there is one on every block, increase military so they can properly secure both borders so nothing can get through and start a federal police force.

How about when parents go out to buy school supplies that they buy guns and ammo to send to school with their kids. We should do away with the law that prevents kids from owning guns. That is the NRA way. No laws on gun regulations is best. Right? They could sell more guns that way. Right?

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Gun buyback.

"...the Australian government “banned automatic and semiautomatic firearms, adopted new licensing requirements, established a national firearms registry, and instituted a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases. It also bought and destroyed more than 600,000 civilian-owned firearms, in a scheme that cost half a billion dollars and was funded by raising taxes.” The entire overhaul, Friedman pointed out, took just months to implement."

"...The number of mass shootings in Australia—defined as incidents in which a gunman killed five or more people other than himself, which is notably a higher casualty count than is generally applied for tallying mass shootings in the U.S.—dropped from 13 in the 18-year period before 1996 to zero after the Port Arthur massacre. Between 1995 and 2006, gun-related homicides and suicides in the country dropped by 59 percent and 65 percent, respectively, though these declines appear to have since leveled off. Two academics who have studied the impact of the reform initiative estimate that the gun-buyback program saves at least 200 lives each year, according to The New York Times."

How Australia Restricted Guns After a 1996 Massacre - The Atlantic

The population of the nation of Australia, at 24.13 million in 2016 is about 3 3/4 million persons LESS THAN the state of Texas. The difference in logistics of scale are huge and probably insurmountable.

To begin with say, guns per capita, in 2007 Australia had 30.4 guns per 100 people. The US had 101.

We will not ever be able to get magazine load weapons off the streets. Too many will never be turned in. With the advances in 3D printing one will be able to make their own 30 round clips for any weapon that takes them.

Making noise about the "assault weapon" or it's magazine size will accomplish nothing. A determined deranged killer will use what ever comes to hand. A semi-automatic pistol can be as or more lethal than an AR type on full auto where one sends out a random spray. And muzzle rise forces many rounds to go astray. A Semi-auto forces a little bit of aiming. I would have much more concern about one of these in the hands of someone who'd ran no rounds through it than a new "assault rifle" just picked up for the purpose.

The FN 5-7 with two 20 round clips and one in the weapon. Add three more clips for 120 rounds.

FN Five-SeveN Pistol: Gun Review | Range365

 

[82_VOL_83]

This thread is tiresome. Kids are dead because of a lunatic with a gun. It takes two to tango, neither side in this is entirely wrong and neither side is entirely right.

The hearts are in the right place, unfortunately, brains are being used on one side and emotional reaction is being used on the other. I truly wonder which is which?

 

[Grand Vol]

How about when parents go out to buy school supplies that they buy guns and ammo to send to school with their kids. We should do away with the law that prevents kids from owning guns. That is the NRA way. No laws on gun regulations is best. Right? They could sell more guns that way. Right?

Yeah, you aren't jumping the shark here or anything.

 

[Mick]

The hearts are in the right place, unfortunately, brains are being used on one side and emotional reaction is being used on the other. I truly wonder which is which?

Yep you're emotionally attached to your guns. You are fearful.

 

[Mick]

Yeah, you aren't jumping the shark here or anything.

Just as absurd as your post.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Gun buyback.

"...the Australian government “banned automatic and semiautomatic firearms, adopted new licensing requirements, established a national firearms registry, and instituted a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases. It also bought and destroyed more than 600,000 civilian-owned firearms, in a scheme that cost half a billion dollars and was funded by raising taxes.” The entire overhaul, Friedman pointed out, took just months to implement."

"...The number of mass shootings in Australia—defined as incidents in which a gunman killed five or more people other than himself, which is notably a higher casualty count than is generally applied for tallying mass shootings in the U.S.—dropped from 13 in the 18-year period before 1996 to zero after the Port Arthur massacre. Between 1995 and 2006, gun-related homicides and suicides in the country dropped by 59 percent and 65 percent, respectively, though these declines appear to have since leveled off. Two academics who have studied the impact of the reform initiative estimate that the gun-buyback program saves at least 200 lives each year, according to The New York Times."

How Australia Restricted Guns After a 1996 Massacre - The Atlantic

So you are for confiscating and banning MOST guns in the US today. You are for pushing us back to basically the late 1800's for firearm ownership. To that I say **** You.

 

[OuterBanksVol]

So...

An AR-15 isn't an assault rifle per your definition.

M16
The first confrontations between the AK-47 and the M14 (assault rifle vs battle rifle) came in the early part of the Vietnam War. Battlefield reports indicated that the M14 was uncontrollable in full-auto and that soldiers could not carry enough ammunition to maintain fire superiority over the AK-47.[8][50][57] And, while the M2 Carbine offered a high rate of fire, it was under-powered and ultimately outclassed by the AK-47.[58] A replacement was needed: A medium between the traditional preference for high-powered rifles such as the M14, and the lightweight firepower of the M2 Carbine.

As a result, the Army was forced to reconsider a 1957 request by General Willard G. Wyman, commander of the U.S. Continental Army Command (CONARC) to develop a .223 caliber (5.56 mm) select-fire rifle weighing 6 lbs (2.7 kg) when loaded with a 20-round magazine.[20] The 5.56mm round had to penetrate a standard U.S. helmet at 500 yards (460 meters) and retain a velocity in excess of the speed of sound, while matching or exceeding the wounding ability of the .30 Carbine cartridge.[59]

This request ultimately resulted in the development of a scaled-down version of the ArmaLite AR-10, called ArmaLite AR-15 rifle.[8][60][61][62] However, despite overwhelming evidence that the AR-15 could bring more firepower to bear than the M14, the Army opposed the adoption of the new rifle.[8][50][60] In January 1963, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara concluded that the AR-15 was the superior weapon system and ordered a halt to M14 production.[50][60][63] At the time, the AR-15 was the only rifle available that could fulfill the requirement of a universal infantry weapon for issue to all services.

After modifications (most notably, the charging handle was re-located from under the carrying handle like AR-10 to the rear of the receiver),[61] the new redesigned rifle was subsequently adopted as the M16 Rifle.[8][50][60][64] "(The M16) was much lighter compared to the M14 it replaced, ultimately allowing Soldiers to carry more ammunition. The air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed assault rifle was made of steel, aluminum alloy and composite plastics, truly cutting-edge for the time. Designed with full and semi-automatic capabilities, the weapon initially did not respond well to wet and dirty conditions, sometimes even jamming in combat. After a few minor modifications, the weapon gained in popularity among troops on the battlefield."[50][65][66]

Despite its early failures the M16 proved to be a revolutionary design and stands as the longest continuously serving rifle in American military history.[60][64] It has been adopted by many U.S. allies and the 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge has become not only the NATO standard, but "the standard assault-rifle cartridge in much of the world."[60][67][68] It also led to the development of small-caliber high-velocity service rifles by every major army in the world, including the USSR and People's Republic of China.[60] Today, many small arms experts consider the M16 the standard by which all other assault rifles are judged.[60][69][70]

 

[ClearwaterVol]

If you weren't so scared of the tools, then you wouldn't have that issue. You can't get past my CZ on my hip to see the guy with the AR getting ready to shoot you across the hall. The main and I do mean MAIN issue with gun control nuts is that they are scared of guns.....period. You are scared they will jump up and bite you and kill you and your kids, explode and blow up half of the neighborhood. Literally that scared. It's the fear of the gun and not the shooter that paralyzes the left into not being able to have a rational discussion about how to stop this crap.

Nice generalizations.

I have no fear of guns. I do fear guns when they are in the wrong hands. I do not understand people that believe that 2A is so sacrosanct that the mentally ill should be able to purchase guns.

 

[Carl Pickens]

This thread is tiresome. Kids are dead because of a lunatic with a gun. It takes two to tango, neither side in this is entirely wrong and neither side is entirely right.

I agree..... I haven't even made a post in this thread until now. It's a horrible thing and left me at a loss for words. There's no quick easy solution.

 

[OuterBanksVol]

I know, it’s so dangerous that I see AR-15s strapped to the back of someone every time I go out.

Precislet my point. These guns have no purpose in our society outside of the military.

 

[82_VOL_83]

M16
The first confrontations between the AK-47 and the M14 (assault rifle vs battle rifle) came in the early part of the Vietnam War. Battlefield reports indicated that the M14 was uncontrollable in full-auto and that soldiers could not carry enough ammunition to maintain fire superiority over the AK-47.[8][50][57] And, while the M2 Carbine offered a high rate of fire, it was under-powered and ultimately outclassed by the AK-47.[58] A replacement was needed: A medium between the traditional preference for high-powered rifles such as the M14, and the lightweight firepower of the M2 Carbine.

As a result, the Army was forced to reconsider a 1957 request by General Willard G. Wyman, commander of the U.S. Continental Army Command (CONARC) to develop a .223 caliber (5.56 mm) select-fire rifle weighing 6 lbs (2.7 kg) when loaded with a 20-round magazine.[20] The 5.56mm round had to penetrate a standard U.S. helmet at 500 yards (460 meters) and retain a velocity in excess of the speed of sound, while matching or exceeding the wounding ability of the .30 Carbine cartridge.[59]

This request ultimately resulted in the development of a scaled-down version of the ArmaLite AR-10, called ArmaLite AR-15 rifle.[8][60][61][62] However, despite overwhelming evidence that the AR-15 could bring more firepower to bear than the M14, the Army opposed the adoption of the new rifle.[8][50][60] In January 1963, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara concluded that the AR-15 was the superior weapon system and ordered a halt to M14 production.[50][60][63] At the time, the AR-15 was the only rifle available that could fulfill the requirement of a universal infantry weapon for issue to all services.

After modifications (most notably, the charging handle was re-located from under the carrying handle like AR-10 to the rear of the receiver),[61] the new redesigned rifle was subsequently adopted as the M16 Rifle.[8][50][60][64] "(The M16) was much lighter compared to the M14 it replaced, ultimately allowing Soldiers to carry more ammunition. The air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed assault rifle was made of steel, aluminum alloy and composite plastics, truly cutting-edge for the time. Designed with full and semi-automatic capabilities, the weapon initially did not respond well to wet and dirty conditions, sometimes even jamming in combat. After a few minor modifications, the weapon gained in popularity among troops on the battlefield."[50][65][66]

Despite its early failures the M16 proved to be a revolutionary design and stands as the longest continuously serving rifle in American military history.[60][64] It has been adopted by many U.S. allies and the 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge has become not only the NATO standard, but "the standard assault-rifle cartridge in much of the world."[60][67][68] It also led to the development of small-caliber high-velocity service rifles by every major army in the world, including the USSR and People's Republic of China.[60] Today, many small arms experts consider the M16 the standard by which all other assault rifles are judged.[60][69][70]

Wish I could buy one of those AR-15's. Unfortunately, those aren't sold on the market at all and are/were only available to the military. It's a good try OBx but about as honest as 18 school shootings in 2018. I kinda liked you as a poster. I am really sad to see you resort to lies and half truths to push an indefensible position.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Precislet my point. These guns have no purpose in our society outside of the military.

How do you gain this authority to actually make a sweeping statement like that? Do you own one? Have you shot one? Have you gone coyote hunting with one? Have you spent an afternoon with your wife and son on the range teaching safety, respect, and how to handle the weapon?

Per your statement I would say no and that makes you ignorant.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Nice generalizations.

I have no fear of guns. I do fear guns when they are in the wrong hands. I do not understand people that believe that 2A is so sacrosanct that the mentally ill should be able to purchase guns.

Find one person in this entire FORUM much less thread who has said that they should. But that isn't your position. Like a good little liberal progressive, you are changing your narrative to fit the argument. Our argument has been no more GUN control laws. You only see that as us saying "don't take our guns". The real issue is how to stop someone as obviously deranged as this guy was from purchasing a firearm and that is going to take a whole lot of bending from your side and a whole lot of bending on our side that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with limiting what guns are for sale.

 

[golfballs]

Precislet my point. These guns have no purpose in our society outside of the military.

OBX knows literally nothing about firearms, but he did stay at a holiday inn express last night

 

[luthervol]

Fify

So sad and pathetic.....You may be the most easily manipulated person I've encountered on the PF.

There has never been and will never be an attempt to ban all guns.

 

[Grand Vol]

Just as absurd as your post.

Well, I see you've run out of bad arguments and have resorted to the insult level.

What's next? You going to accuse me of selling guns to criminals again?

 

[SLICKYINC]

M16
The first confrontations between the AK-47 and the M14 (assault rifle vs battle rifle) came in the early part of the Vietnam War. Battlefield reports indicated that the M14 was uncontrollable in full-auto and that soldiers could not carry enough ammunition to maintain fire superiority over the AK-47.[8][50][57] And, while the M2 Carbine offered a high rate of fire, it was under-powered and ultimately outclassed by the AK-47.[58] A replacement was needed: A medium between the traditional preference for high-powered rifles such as the M14, and the lightweight firepower of the M2 Carbine.

As a result, the Army was forced to reconsider a 1957 request by General Willard G. Wyman, commander of the U.S. Continental Army Command (CONARC) to develop a .223 caliber (5.56 mm) select-fire rifle weighing 6 lbs (2.7 kg) when loaded with a 20-round magazine.[20] The 5.56mm round had to penetrate a standard U.S. helmet at 500 yards (460 meters) and retain a velocity in excess of the speed of sound, while matching or exceeding the wounding ability of the .30 Carbine cartridge.[59]

This request ultimately resulted in the development of a scaled-down version of the ArmaLite AR-10, called ArmaLite AR-15 rifle.[8][60][61][62] However, despite overwhelming evidence that the AR-15 could bring more firepower to bear than the M14, the Army opposed the adoption of the new rifle.[8][50][60] In January 1963, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara concluded that the AR-15 was the superior weapon system and ordered a halt to M14 production.[50][60][63] At the time, the AR-15 was the only rifle available that could fulfill the requirement of a universal infantry weapon for issue to all services.

After modifications (most notably, the charging handle was re-located from under the carrying handle like AR-10 to the rear of the receiver),[61] the new redesigned rifle was subsequently adopted as the M16 Rifle.[8][50][60][64] "(The M16) was much lighter compared to the M14 it replaced, ultimately allowing Soldiers to carry more ammunition. The air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed assault rifle was made of steel, aluminum alloy and composite plastics, truly cutting-edge for the time. Designed with full and semi-automatic capabilities, the weapon initially did not respond well to wet and dirty conditions, sometimes even jamming in combat. After a few minor modifications, the weapon gained in popularity among troops on the battlefield."[50][65][66]

Despite its early failures the M16 proved to be a revolutionary design and stands as the longest continuously serving rifle in American military history.[60][64] It has been adopted by many U.S. allies and the 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge has become not only the NATO standard, but "the standard assault-rifle cartridge in much of the world."[60][67][68] It also led to the development of small-caliber high-velocity service rifles by every major army in the world, including the USSR and People's Republic of China.[60] Today, many small arms experts consider the M16 the standard by which all other assault rifles are judged.[60][69][70]

The words "select fire" really don't register with you.

 

[Grand Vol]

Wish I could buy one of those AR-15's. Unfortunately, those aren't sold on the market at all and are/were only available to the military. It's a good try OBx but about as honest as 18 school shootings in 2018. I kinda liked you as a poster. I am really sad to see you resort to lies and half truths to push an indefensible position.

Just let him go on. It's more entertaining.

 

[golfballs]

If you weren't so scared of the tools, then you wouldn't have that issue. You can't get past my CZ on my hip to see the guy with the AR getting ready to shoot you across the hall. The main and I do mean MAIN issue with gun control nuts is that they are scared of guns.....period. You are scared they will jump up and bite you and kill you and your kids, explode and blow up half of the neighborhood. Literally that scared. It's the fear of the gun and not the shooter that paralyzes the left into not being able to have a rational discussion about how to stop this crap.

Gersh Kuntzman, N.Y. Daily News writer: Firing AR-15 gave me PTSD; - Washington Times

 

[luthervol]

Please explain this using this picture.


View attachment 153976

Who cares. Not only can you not see the forest for the trees, you can't even see the trees for the leaves.