Butch 4th ranked overpaid coach in NCAA?

That only works if all wins are equal. Would you say that the win against TN Tech was equal to the win against Florida or Georgia?

Until we are winning the division and the conference, OOC and bowl wins are utterly meaningless.

Ding ding ding. Not all wins are equal, and expectations are different at different schools. On some level it is a subjective measure.

For example, I think Iowa is pretty happy to pay Kirk Ferentz $4.5m for his performance, because that's good enough at Iowa. At Tennessee? Not so much.
 
Give me a break! How long does Jones need to change the culture? This will be his 5th year.

Like I said in an earlier post, if Butch is still here in 10 years there will be some posters still whining about Dooley.

He has changed the culture. He has beat Richt and Smart & beat Florida. Is he all the way there yet? no But is he going in the right direction? yes But some posters cannot give him credit for any successes.

If he is here for 10 years that most likely means he has continued to right the ship, but some posters will still be whining about something.
 
I just think it's important to be self aware. A lot of programs make big mistakes in firing coaches who are winning 9 games a season because they think they are better than that... only to hire Charlie Strong and find out they're not.

well that i agree with, but that hasn't got a thing to do with what your history says you are, that's about having good decision makers making good decisions when that time comes.
 
He has changed the culture. He has beat Richt and Smart & beat Florida. Is he all the way there yet? no But is he going in the right direction? yes But some posters cannot give him credit for any successes.

If he is here for 10 years that most likely means he has continued to right the ship, but some posters will still be whining about something.

Find one poster who hasn't given Butch any credit. The problem with Butch is for every good thing he does they can't capialize on it abd take it to the next level.
 
Find one poster who hasn't given Butch any credit. The problem with Butch is for every good thing he does they can't capialize on it abd take it to the next level.

All the delusional posters who wanted CBJ fired after Vandy loss.
 
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The only way the writer could make a case was to compare nationally. He is the 9th in the SEC so there is no way to make a case when compared to the SEC.

If the writer was fair, the writer would have 6 other SEC coaches high on that list as well. But that doesn't fit the agenda.
 
Ding ding ding. Not all wins are equal....

Of course not. But seasons, among Power 5 schools, are (roughly speaking).

So don't compare individual wins. Compare seasons.

Here's a short thought experiment to make the point.

Simplying it down to real basics: Team A and Team B only play 2 games each in the season. And they both happen to play the same other teams. One of the teams they play is a 10 on the difficulty scale. The other team they both play is a 1.

Team A beats the "1" team, but loses to the "10" team.
Team B beats the "10" team, but loses to the "1" team.

Who had the better season?

Subjectively, you can argue all day. You can say, "Team A beat who they were supposed to at least, so they're better." You can say, "Team B knocked off one of the best teams in the country." You can say, "Yeah, but they also lost to one of the worst teams in the country, at least Team A beat the weakling as they should."

No right answer, it's all subjective opinion.

But objectively, you can say that they both had equally difficult seasons (total Strength of Schedule = 10 + 1 = 11 for both of them). And you can that they both came out with 1 win. So, objectively, their results were roughly equivalent.

Even if the individual Ws (and the Ls) looked very different.

That's why you can compare seasons among coaches from different programs, roughly at least.
 
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Of course not. But seasons, among Power 5 schools, are (roughly speaking).

So don't compare individual wins. Compare seasons.

Here's a short thought experiment to make the point.

Simplying it down to real basics: Team A and Team B only play 2 games each in the season. And they both happen to play the same other teams. One of the teams they play is a 10 on the difficulty scale. The other team they both play is a 1.

Team A beats the "1" team, but loses to the "10" team.
Team B beats the "10" team, but loses to the "1" team.

Who had the better season?

Subjectively, you can argue all day. You can say, "Team A beat who they were supposed to at least, so they're better." You can say, "Team B knocked off one of the best teams in the country." You can say, "Yeah, but they also lost to one of the worst teams in the country, at least Team A beat the weakling as they should."

No right answer, it's all subjective opinion.

But objectively, you can say that they both had equally difficult seasons (total Strength of Schedule = 10 + 1 = 11 for both of them). And you can that they both came out with 1 win. So, objectively, their results were roughly equivalent.

Even if the individual Ws (and the Ls) looked very different.

That's why you can compare seasons among coaches from different programs, roughly at least.

Or you just eliminate all OOC/Bowl games for non-conference champions/non-CFP participants. Because without winning your conference, or at the very least winning 7/8 games, those OOC wins are participation trophies in the grand scheme of the season. Butch is essentially getting $1 million/ conference win to be .500 in the SECe.
 
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Well, they should have gotten us to the SECCG. They were wiped out by the Vandy and S Car losses, but to act like they didn't even occur sounds like you just want to dismiss anything good that happened. Sure, Tennessee was favored in the game, but we broke an 11-game losing streak to Florida. That was one of the most fun Tennessee games I have personally attended in a long time, so I know I won't forget it.

If a 9-4 season is an "epic failure" for your program, then I'd say Butch is actually doing pretty good (which is ironic, because I assume you are saying this as a criticism of Butch).

Yeah, they were wiped out by the awful losses to SCar and Vandy and as a result, the bigger, primary goal of the season (playing in the SECCG) wasn't reached.....when we were the overwhelming favorites to get there. I think that makes the 2016 season a major fail, especially coming off the disappointments of the 2015 season. Looks like we just disagree, no worries.
 
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Obviously you don't remember the REAL SPECTACULAR fail games/season from our history but I get your point...

There's been so many.....but losing to the bottom feeders of the SECe, which keeps you from playing in both Atlanta and New Orleans ranks right up there imo.
 
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Or you just eliminate all OOC/Bowl games for non-conference champions/non-CFP participants. Because without winning your conference, or at the very least winning 7/8 games, those OOC wins are participation trophies in the grand scheme of the season. Butch is essentially getting $1 million/ conference win to be .500 in the SECe.

Just think what Mark Dantonio is getting, for what he's achieving. Three (3) wins, all season long. Against weak-as-they've-ever-been ND, and Furman, and Rutgers. Losses to every other B10 conference team. To Indiana. And Illinois. To Northwestern and Maryland. A 1-8 record in the league.

This objective way of looking at the coaches isn't saying Butch's year was stellar, that he's worth a lot more than the $4.1M he's making. It's not saying anything about him at all, in isolation. It's merely saying that there are a LOT of football head coaches who are giving their programs less wins per $ spent. Some of them (like Dantonio), a LOT less.

Point is, you're focused on the warts of our own head coach, and missing all the warts on all the other coaches who didn't win double digit games last season.

You want to talk who's overpaid? Objectively? That's how you figure it out.
 
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Just think what Mark Dantonio is getting, for what he's achieving. Three (3) wins, all season long. Against weak-as-they've-ever-been ND, and Furman, and Rutgers. Losses to every other B10 conference team. To Indiana. And Illinois. To Northwestern and Maryland. A 1-8 record in the league.

This objective way of looking at the coaches isn't saying Butch's year was stellar, that he's worth a lot more than the $4.1M he's making. It's not saying anything about him at all, in isolation. It's merely saying that there are a LOT of football head coaches who are giving their programs less wins per $ spent. Some of them (like Dantonio), a LOT less.

Point is, you're focused on the warts of our own head coach, and missing all the warts on all the other coaches who didn't win double digit games last season.

You want to talk who's overpaid? Objectively? That's how you figure it out.

And had 3 conferences titles in the 6 years previous to last season. That buys you some equity. Jones can't even win the East.
 
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And had 3 conferences titles in the 6 years previous to last season. That buys you some equity. Jones can't even win the East.

Fair enough. Comparing them over multiple seasons, Dantonio comes out well ahead. Far ahead.

But in 2016, Butch was more bang for the buck, by a ratio of better than 3 to 1. Worth thinking about if we're talking overpaid this off-season.

Btw, a pessimist says "can't even win the East." An optimist says "hasn't even won the East." I'm an optimist, I guess, because still holding out hope for 2017. Fingers crossed that his occasional weird decisions don't get in our way.
 
Answer Yes or No to the following questions:

1 Does Tennessee have top 15 tradition?

2 Does Tennessee have top 15 fan support?

3 Does Tennessee have top 15 facilities?

4 Does Tennessee pay their coaches a top 15 salary?

5 Does Tennessee enjoy top 15 recruiting classes?

6 Has CBJ produced a top 15 season even once?

Answers:
1 yes, we have a history steeped in success
2 yes, UT WAS #6 IN attendance IN 2016
3 yes, UT was ranked #5 in facilities by 247 sports
4 yes, cbj and staff collective salaries ranked #13
5 yes, including 2 top 5 classes the past 4 seasons
6 no, Butch has never finished in the top 15 -
in fact he has yet to finish the regular season in the top
25. But thanks to end of season bowl victories we have
edged into the top 25 in the final rankings the last 2 seasons.

So maybe he is overpaid.
 
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...and there are seven head coaches who make more than him who had the same number of wins, or fewer, in 2016.

Once again, we're so focused on our own coach's warts, we're blind to the (often even bigger) warts on a lot of the other coaches out there.

Objectively speaking, he's probably not overpaid at all. He simply hasn't given us what we want yet, a conference championship.
 
...and there are seven head coaches who make more than him who had the same number of wins, or fewer, in 2016.

Once again, we're so focused on our own coach's warts, we're blind to the (often even bigger) warts on a lot of the other coaches out there.

Objectively speaking, he's probably not overpaid at all. He simply hasn't given us what we want yet, a championship.

I don't think the article, or anyone for that matter, is only judging CBJ on his performance in 2016.
 
Agreeing on the facts is a lost art online. Well done! You must be old school. :salute: That question alone would end a lot of arguments online.

Solid point on revenue / profit. Awfully hard to come up with reliable figures on that, I imagine.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/tenn/graphics/UT_Athletics_2016_Report_Final_SinglePgs_1.pdf ...beginning p.19 I believe.

While I do not doubt that UT football has a large impact on the city/county/state, those numbers just don't seem realistic. The entire budget for Knoxville city is $406,855,050, and Knox County is $753,189,546., and the total tax impact from all of UT athletics(p.17) determined by this study for city, county, and the state only amounts to $27,625,342. That's a drop in the bucket, especially when split unequally between all three parties. The rest of those numbers seem to be extrapolations base off their calculations as to what the business impact is on the state, which also seems grossly exaggerated considering the very small amount of tax impact.

The fact that Tripp Umbach listed on every page Source: Tripp Umbach, using IMPLAN results from data obtained through the University of Tennessee Athletics, doesn't fill me with confidence either. If they aren't providing the source of the information that the UT Athletic department provided them, and they aren't cross-sourcing this information from public information, then I'd call into question the accuracy of the numbers they are citing unless they can provide the basis for their Implan analysis.
 
These salaries are not SEC weighted.

Bielema might be grossly overpaid in the Big 12 or ACC but is only slightly overpaid for an SEC coach as he would have to work extra hard for those conference wins against Ole Miss and LSU verses Texas Tech, NC State and Kansas State.

Put CBJ and Vols in B1G West and watch him kick arse!
 
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I think he's under paid. We forget where he has brought us. Dooley had us at MTSU level and butch has brought th expectations up so high that we are disappointed we almost won the sec east.

Holding on to Dooley for feel good passed about 2 years ago for me, carry on if it still works I suppose.
 
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