Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

[theFallGuy]

Probably not the best timing of that opinion with a divisional opponent looking at returning to the SEC Championship game in year one of a "rebuild". Butch needs to win out and get to Atlanta next year.

because the Dooley recruiting was right there with the Muschamp recruiting

:good!:

 

[theFallGuy]

The evidence just doesn't support it - aTm & MZ coming into the SEC successfully, Vandy's rise, Ole Miss's rise, MState's rise, etc. etc.

Some time, but not an eternity which is what 6-7 years looks like in college FB.

Sumlin is going to be on the hot seat if he doesn't do something soon. It's easy to be good when you have Manziel at QB.

 

[jhen713]

Probably not the best timing of that opinion with a divisional opponent looking at returning to the SEC Championship game in year one of a "rebuild". Butch needs to win out and get to Atlanta next year.

Florida wasn't a rebuild. They've always,been loaded with tallent. They just had to get rid of the doofus they had as a coach.

 

[theFallGuy]

Florida wasn't a rebuild. They've always,been loaded with tallent. They just had to get rid of the doofus they had as a coach.

I agree. We were all duped to believe it was going to be a rebuilding year. They had plenty of talent there, they just needed someone better to manage it.

 

[Iam4utalways]

Some would argue butch is the problem.

I see that a lot, but when it comes down to it nobody wants to step up and say, they are part of that minority. As Vol fans, I think that most, by most I really mean almost all feel this way about Butch:

1) great improvement, keep it going.

2) stay aggressive, don't protect a lead in the 3rd qtr, build on it, keep scoring

3) no loss at this point is acceptable and may get you fired, on the spot.

4) we as a fan base want you to succeed, because if you succeed, that means the team succeeds.

5) success is not just being better, success is winning games and winning a lot of games.

6) the Florida game is the same as any of them, we can't go undefeated if we lose any game.

Go Vols!

 

[Vol4ever]

Butch Jones: It takes six or seven years in the SEC to build a program

An excerpt from the article...

While we live in a world of instant gratification, Jones — just in his 3rd season in Knoxville — scaled back expectations a little and indicated that he may need an additional three years at the least to fully bring the Vols back to prominence. Jones identified weak spots right now in the program such as the offensive line, defensive line and receivers.

I agree. It's more than on the field. Many things involved, of course most adults understand.

 

[KBVol]

6-7 years to become prominent? Wow! I bet our last two stellar recruiting classes love digesting this piece of news.

Thanks in advance for getting us to the "Promised Land" boys, even though you'll never see it.

WTF???

I agree, you make an excellent point..."hey Jalen, come play at Tennessee, your home school. Come bust your arse for 3 years, come help us recruit players, come help us promote the program.....and 3 years after you're long gone I'm gonna get this team to winning at a high, consistent level."

"Hey fans, just wait for it, we're gonna win a championship of some kind at Tennessee, it's coming......it's just gonna take twice as much time as every other coach is given and 5 to 6 years longer than it's taken McElwain down in Florida."

Jones may be right, he may need 6 or 7 years......but it's incredibly tone deaf and just an awful message to send to both the fans and players alike IMO.


Edit: I just don't understand his thinking in saying this at the moment. He's doing a great job with the program, he had a signature win vs Georgia and played Bama down to the wire....he should be feeling little to no heat right now....90% of fans are good with him, as he likely gets us to 8 wins and a decent bowl game. Did he damn near singlehandedly cost us 2 very good wins vs OU and Florida due to his poor gameday coaching acumen? Yes, it's well-documented. But nobody is calling for his job, things are going well, most of us are all good. Why say this?

 

[chuck0303]

Butch Jones: It takes six or seven years in the SEC to build a program

An excerpt from the article...

While we live in a world of instant gratification, Jones — just in his 3rd season in Knoxville — scaled back expectations a little and indicated that he may need an additional three years at the least to fully bring the Vols back to prominence. Jones identified weak spots right now in the program such as the offensive line, defensive line and receivers.

BS! 5 at the very most if you can recruit and you have a good coaching staff. Not interested in excuses; this isn't a no-name college.

 

[KBVol]

Florida wasn't a rebuild. They've always,been loaded with tallent. They just had to get rid of the doofus they had as a coach.

Are you kidding? Go back and search articles written about the team in the preseason. No QB, questions EVERYWHERE on offense, injuries at linebacker, culture issues after a horrible 4 year stretch by Florida standards under Muschamp. It's been well-chronicled that the program was a mess and that's why they got no votes for the Top 25 and were picked to finish 5th in the SECEast.

 

[TAF]

Jones > McElwain

Not seein' it there, SuperDave

 

[thebjd]

yeah and whatever we do lets not give Butch any credit at all, for having the team competitive in those games instead of just being blown out. Butch is the reason the team played well enough to win those games in the first place.

I just honestly don't understand the ignorance displayed by some in our fan base.

We throw parades for not being blown out now?

 

[CA_Vol]

At least he recognizes the obvious areas of need! We have had coaches in the past that only thought about magic dust when it came to acknowledging weaknesses.

Talk about setting the bar low...

 

[KBVol]

Jones > McElwain

Okay, where's the rest of your post? Where's the punchline?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

You have to look at the starting point. If a coach takes over a 9-10 win team it's hard to improve 1.5-2 games per year. When you start at 5 with 3 OOC creampuffs on the schedule and a weak SEC E it's not that difficult.

Of course you have to look at the starting point. Not talking about guys who take over the Vols when we're winning 8, 9 games a year and continue the success (Neyland, Fulmer, others).

This chart shows the first three years (#wins) for each Tennessee coach throughout our history who faced a rebuilding job.

Some things jump right out at you: almost all of the coaches achieved success to one degree or another. Only Dooley took the team downhill. Even Wyatt had net gain over the three years, even though he regressed from Year 2 to Year 3.

The next thing you notice is that Jones' trend looks very similar to the trendlines of Johnny Majors and Z.G. Clevenger. All three heading steadily upward. What is less obvious at first glance is that Butch will outperform both of them if he wins out (including bowl win). Butch matches Doug Dickey's success in his first three years, as well. Being favorably compared to Dickey, Majors and Clevenger, that's pretty good company.

So yes, it hurt to lose to OK and FL after leading them for much of the game. Sucks, to be honest. And yes, it was clearly possible for Team 119 to have gone 11-2 rather than 9-4, if we'd held out to win those two matches.

But that hypothetical scenario would just ADD to Butch's success, which is already matching the best in our history for rebuilding eras. Those two almost-wins don't detract from what you see in this chart--they would've added to it.

No, Butch is the man. Those who are hating on him are wrong. He's definitely got the program moving in the right direction.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I agree, you make an excellent point..."hey Jalen, come play at Tennessee, your home school. Come bust your arse for 3 years, come help us recruit players, come help us promote the program.....and 3 years after you're long gone I'm gonna get this team to winning at a high, consistent level."

"Hey fans, just wait for it, we're gonna win a championship of some kind at Tennessee, it's coming......it's just gonna take twice as much time as every other coach is given and 5 to 6 years longer than it's taken McElwain down in Florida."

Jones may be right, he may need 6 or 7 years......but it's incredibly tone deaf and just an awful message to send to both the fans and players alike IMO.


Edit: I just don't understand his thinking in saying this at the moment. He's doing a great job with the program, he had a signature win vs Georgia and played Bama down to the wire....he should be feeling little to no heat right now....90% of fans are good with him, as he likely gets us to 8 wins and a decent bowl game. Did he damn near singlehandedly cost us 2 very good wins vs OU and Florida due to his poor gameday coaching acumen? Yes, it's well-documented. But nobody is calling for his job, things are going well, most of us are all good. Why say this?

Is there a chance he knows that he is ahead of the time frame, and is giving the team a pat on the back. We are so close and that's why the losses we have, hurt so much. They were ours, and we blew it. We may lose games, but I don't see us blowing games again.

Go Vols!

 

[daj2576]

CWM was a great recruiter while he was at Florida. CJM is very fortunate.

Florida's recruiting has been pretty stable over the past decade, and averages right at top 10 in the country. In fact, given the talent within 200 miles of the campus, this is to be expected. The idea that the Gator's would be down, or in a rebuild, is simply a misunderstanding of how bad (and rare) a coach like Muschamp really is (Dooley is also an example). You could put about 100 of the 120+ division one coaches in the captain's chair in Gainesville, and they would have the same results you are seeing this year.

 

[volgrad500]

Honest question to those who defend Lyle at all cost- do you really not understand that the SEC East has SIGNIFICANTLY come back to the pack? That it is historically bad? Take us out of the equation- do you really not understand that the Florida team that is about to be in the SEC Championship game has major, major holes, and that the normal Florida teams we are use to would crush this year's team?

 

[thebjd]

For those folks, I'd respond: the "problem" has us improving at a rate of +1.5 to +2 games per year. 5 in '13, 7 in '14, likely 8 or 9 in '15.

That rate of improvement is almost unheard of in Tennessee history.

We need more "problems" like that.

Year one was no improvement. Year two we improved by one game (excluding post season). This year could be a two game improvement. In three years we have have went from five wins to the possibility of eight. That is an average of one game improvement per year under Butch from Dooley unless year one is year zero.

 

[thebjd]

Of course you have to look at the starting point. Not talking about guys who take over the Vols when we're winning 8, 9 games a year and continue the success (Neyland, Fulmer, others).

This chart shows the first three years (#wins) for each Tennessee coach throughout our history who faced a rebuilding job.

Some things jump right out at you: almost all of the coaches achieved success to one degree or another. Only Dooley took the team downhill. Even Wyatt had net gain over the three years, even though he regressed from Year 2 to Year 3.

The next thing you notice is that Jones' trend looks very similar to the trendlines of Johnny Majors and Z.G. Clevenger. All three heading steadily upward. What is less obvious at first glance is that Butch will outperform both of them if he wins out (including bowl win). Butch matches Doug Dickey's success in his first three years, as well. Being favorably compared to Dickey, Majors and Clevenger, that's pretty good company.

So yes, it hurt to lose to OK and FL after leading them for much of the game. Sucks, to be honest. And yes, it was clearly possible for Team 119 to have gone 11-2 rather than 9-4, if we'd held out to win those two matches.

But that hypothetical scenario would just ADD to Butch's success, which is already matching the best in our history for rebuilding eras. Those two almost-wins don't detract from what you see in this chart--they would've added to it.

No, Butch is the man. Those who are hating on him are wrong. He's definitely got the program moving in the right direction.

Has Butch won nine games yet? I see the improvement but we haven't won nine games and you have credited him with that in your Ross Perot chart.

 

[DownNDirty]

Even the biggest of morons in the UT fanbase has to say WHAT we he says something this stupid. I have had several employees that worked for me in the past that always tempered expectations. They would make excuses before deadlines were even approaching and had an excuse for any little thing that went wrong no matter what. Those employees never made it. I've also had employees who fought through BS, never made an excuse when they slipped up, tried harder, pushed through, and some of them are now VP's and SVP's in the region.

Butch is just a snake oil salesman that is still hoping and praying that he can be successful enough while spewing enough Butch'isms to keep the fans happy a couple of more years while he keeps cashing those checks.

#7YearsofMediocrity

 

[LordBolton]

I think he's just pulling a "Scotty", telling the captain it'll take 3 hours to fix it then having it done in 2 so he looks good! I see no reason why next year (except the injury bug) we're not contending hard for a playoff spot; we should be favored to win the East at a minimum. Schedule is very favorable to it, and our top talent will be matured fully. This year we expected to beat Florida but lose to Georgia, it was reversed but the outcome is the same in the end.

We were never expected to beat OU or Bama before the season (although I thought we were better than OU as did my Sooner-loving buddy, who was stunned when they came back and beat us. That was a long ride home from Knoxville). Arkansas was just one of those games where we were flat, but exchange that with an expected win at Missouri, where pre-season we were again expected to do a Chevy Chase pratfall and lose to those buffoons. I don't see it happening now. Preseason Arkansas was a 50/50 prospect anyway. Seems to me we're right where everyone expected, with a few twists and turns. So as upset as I am about the blown games, I'm not too mad to see the bright future.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Honest question to those who defend Lyle at all cost- do you really not understand that the SEC East has SIGNIFICANTLY come back to the pack? That it is historically bad? Take us out of the equation- do you really not understand that the Florida team that is about to be in the SEC Championship game has major, major holes, and that the normal Florida teams we are use to would crush this year's team?

And your point, 500?

The B10 is weak. But Ohio State is arguably the best team in the country. Certainly one of the best.

You think Florida is going to shed tears that they got to the SEC CG against a weaker-than-normal division? If they make it to the playoffs after beating an SEC West champion in Atlanta, you think they're going to give back their trophy because the East is down?

Butch is climbing the ladder, as illustrated above, and is doing so no matter what the rest of the East looks like.

Our opponents are weak in part because we have made them look weak by beating them.

Some folks always set their own team at '0' and judge the world in comparison. Which means anyone they beat was in the negative numbers, a weak team.

In absolute terms, Tennessee is a very good football team this year. All the measuring systems other than popularity polls (Sagarin, Steele, ESPN FPI, etc.) recognize that.

Just because some in VolNation don't, that doesn't mean the rest of us have to with them.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Year one was no improvement. Year two we improved by one game (excluding post season). This year could be a two game improvement. In three years we have have went from five wins to the possibility of eight. That is an average of one game improvement per year under Butch from Dooley unless year one is year zero.

Even not counting the post season, your math is wrong. 5 to 6 to 8 is +1.5 a year, the same rate of improvement as Majors and Clevenger achieved.

 

[thebjd]

And your point, 500?

The B10 is weak. But Ohio State is arguably the best team in the country. Certainly one of the best.

You think Florida is going to shed tears that they got to the SEC CG against a weaker-than-normal division? If they make it to the playoffs after beating an SEC West champion in Atlanta, you think they're going to give back their trophy because the East is down?

Butch is climbing the ladder, as illustrated above, and is doing so no matter what the rest of the East looks like.

Our opponents are weak in part because we have made them look weak by beating them.

Some folks always set their own team at '0' and judge the world in comparison. Which means anyone they beat was in the negative numbers, a weak team.

In absolute terms, Tennessee is a very good football team this year. All the measuring systems other than popularity polls (Sagarin, Steele, ESPN FPI, etc.) recognize that.

Just because some in VolNation don't, that doesn't mean the rest of us have to with them.

A serious question. What good team have beat this year that made them look weak? We played three good teams to the wire and lost to a pretty bad team. UGA?

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Most of us have figured out that almost anything that comes out of his mouth is BS coach speak

No one will take this seriously, as they shouldn't. Butch doesn't even believe it.

Remember, we are talking about the guy who said "Best Staff in America"

Here we go again. Thanks for nothing, 99.