Ukraine Protests

[volprof]

Sarcasm?

 

[Burhead]

If you think Russia is going to let NATO place missiles in the Donbass then you have another thing coming!

NATO encroachment is over!

NATO doesn't even need ballistic missiles in Europe let alone Ukraine.

 

[Burhead]

No I'm actually curious. One could make the argument that we've broken the agreement by not at least arming Ukrainian forces.

 

[Grand Vol]

Speaking hypothetically if you couldn't tell. We saw last summer that the DNR/LNR would easily be crushed if Russia suspended the transfer of men and war material. If it wasn't for the last second Russian intervention last spring it would have been over by now.

And really, all it would take is some airmobile/airborne forces to be dropped in behind those areas to secure the border for this to be over with quickly.

 

[CSpindizzy]

If you think Russia is going to let NATO place missiles in the Donbass then you have another thing coming!

NATO encroachment is over!

Your NATO conspiracy theories are in overdrive. NATO is not in Ukraine and is not involved there. Nations who happen to also be NATO members can help Ukraine. But of course the tinfoil crowd will then say it's a NATO invasion.

Nevermind Russian media sourced Kommersant still saying actual Russians are the ones taking Debaltseve....

Russian media: Russian soldiers captured Debaltseve - Business Insider

 

[volprof]

Shirtless Putin (in the Russian winter no less) was the only thing standing between the Germans and the total collapse of the Motherland.

I hear Putin once forced out all the Mongol khans in one afternoon. Shirtless.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Weapons sales by each power:

Arms Sales By The US And Russia - Business Insider

Russia is all about trading peaceful items....exporting peace one tank at a time. We can look at eastern Ukraine and see what peace and peace agreements translates to as well. "Ceasefire" means finish invading what you are working on and then take a break.

Why Russian arms sales are on high octane | Russia & India Report

But in case I get accused of MSM links, let's for shiggles go with good ol' Russian Sputnik:

Russian arms exports / Sputnik International

Plenty of gems in that link. Just scroll down for some of their "peace" trade. But, yeah, the US is the death dealer of the world.

Look at how many more countries the US sales weapons to...

 

[Pacer92]

And really, all it would take is some airmobile/airborne forces to be dropped in behind those areas to secure the border for this to be over with quickly.

With the proclaimed 11k Russian soldiers and numerous tanks that you guys are certain of.....it'll take a lot more than this! Lol

 

[CSpindizzy]

Speaking hypothetically if you couldn't tell. We saw last summer that the DNR/LNR would easily be crushed if Russia suspended the transfer of men and war material. If it wasn't for the last second Russian intervention last spring it would have been over by now.

What I've been saying to Ras and Pacer all this time. But a group of routed miners with little weapons left magically morphed into this massive army with top tanks and unlimited weapons and ammo. The source?

 

[volprof]

If you think Russia is going to let NATO place missiles in the Donbass then you have another thing coming!

NATO encroachment is over!

Why would NATO need to put missiles in the Donbass?

We could put them in the Baltics, if we wanted. And wouldn't have to worry about a half-ass crazy local populace to boot.

 

[Grand Vol]

With the proclaimed 11k Russian soldiers and numerous tanks that you guys are certain of.....it'll take a lot more than this! Lol

The ones that are already in the Ukraine or over the border?

Backed up by some decadent western aviation assets, I'm pretty sure there won't be much of a contest.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Look at how many more countries the US sales weapons to...

Is that how you are going to spin this? Wow....seriously wow. Look at the nations on Russia's list as well. You are still going to argue this about the total number of nations. All while telling me Russia and China are over here all alone singing Kumbaya trading wheat and oil with all the good little people of the world. Peaceful Russia.

 

[volprof]

No I'm actually curious. One could make the argument that we've broken the agreement by not at least arming Ukrainian forces.

Well, when you put it that way.

At least we haven't violated the territorial integrity part.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Weapons sales by each power:

Arms Sales By The US And Russia - Business Insider

Russia is all about trading peaceful items....exporting peace one tank at a time. We can look at eastern Ukraine and see what peace and peace agreements translates to as well. "Ceasefire" means finish invading what you are working on and then take a break.

Why Russian arms sales are on high octane | Russia & India Report

But in case I get accused of MSM links, let's for shiggles go with good ol' Russian Sputnik:

Russian arms exports / Sputnik International

Plenty of gems in that link. Just scroll down for some of their "peace" trade. But, yeah, the US is the death dealer of the world.

And lets look and see over a longer period of time who is the real arms leader. Had it not been for the India arms sale in 2014 of $13 billion, the US would have been the leader last year, as well.

TIV of arms exports from the top 50 largest exporters, 2000-2013

Rank 2000-2013 Rank 1999-2012 Supplier 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2000-2013
1 1 United States 7558 5691 4943 5569 6637 6605 7411 7750 6743 6874 8158 8945 8950 6153 97989
2 2 Russia 4043 5936 5638 5322 6189 5229 5096 5556 6343 5112 5962 8495 8391 8283 85595
3 3 Germany (FRG) 1615 919 917 1745 1151 2095 2710 3257 2402 2568 2722 1361 1177 972 25611
4 4 France 1115 1454 1466 1439 2342 1829 1718 2395 2067 1979 917 1750 1076 1489 23036
5 5 United Kingdom 1645 1394 1102 752 1201 1039 973 1009 1002 1021 1137 1040 923 1394 15632

 

[Pacer92]

Why would NATO need to put missiles in the Donbass?

We could put them in the Baltics, if we wanted. And wouldn't have to worry about a half-ass crazy local populace to boot.

Is it not obvious to you guys that Russia is the enemy, the end game?!

 

[Burhead]

What I've been saying to Ras and Pacer all this time. But a group of routed miners with little weapons left magically morphed into this massive army with top tanks and unlimited weapons and ammo. The source?

View attachment 91254

I remember last year after they retook Sloviansk and Kramatorsk I thought it would be over within a few weeks boy was I wrong. I also find it ironic that the two cities were once hot beds of the independence movement when the DNR was in control but once the Ukrainians retook it nothing has been heard of since. Things must not be so bad under Ukrainian control.

 

[Grand Vol]

Look at how many more countries the US sales weapons to...

Well, when you happen to be second rate to US weaponry, you probably won't sell as much.

 

[Burhead]

Well, when you happen to be second rate to US weaponry, you probably won't sell as much.

The Russians have at points been ahead of the game (see BMP series) but decided to go quantity over quality though.

 

[volprof]

Is it not obvious to you guys that Russia is the enemy, the end game?!

What does this mean?

What do you think is the US/NATO ultimate goal regarding Russia?

If it's carving it up, I already know you're going to be on the beach in Crimea chasing bikinis around.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Your NATO conspiracy theories are in overdrive. NATO is not in Ukraine and is not involved there. Nations who happen to also be NATO members can help Ukraine. But of course the tinfoil crowd will then say it's a NATO invasion.

Nevermind Russian media sourced Kommersant still saying actual Russians are the ones taking Debaltseve....

Russian media: Russian soldiers captured Debaltseve - Business Insider

Would you consider a Ukrainian general to be a reliable source for information?

 

[Grand Vol]

Would you consider a Ukrainian general to be a reliable source for information?

About as much as you'd consider RT or Pravda to be.

 

[Burhead]

Would you consider a Ukrainian general to be a reliable source for information?

So when presented with a Russian news source confirming Russian regulars on the ground you still try and discredit it?

 

[CSpindizzy]

And lets look and see over a longer period of time who is the real arms leader. Had it not been for the India arms sale in 2014 of $13 billion, the US would have been the leader last year, as well.

TIV of arms exports from the top 50 largest exporters, 2000-2013

Rank 2000-2013 Rank 1999-2012 Supplier 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2000-2013
1 1 United States 7558 5691 4943 5569 6637 6605 7411 7750 6743 6874 8158 8945 8950 6153 97989
2 2 Russia 4043 5936 5638 5322 6189 5229 5096 5556 6343 5112 5962 8495 8391 8283 85595
3 3 Germany (FRG) 1615 919 917 1745 1151 2095 2710 3257 2402 2568 2722 1361 1177 972 25611
4 4 France 1115 1454 1466 1439 2342 1829 1718 2395 2067 1979 917 1750 1076 1489 23036
5 5 United Kingdom 1645 1394 1102 752 1201 1039 973 1009 1002 1021 1137 1040 923 1394 15632

But your argument was that the US was the weapons dealer all over the globe and that Russia has been all about cuddling with people trading peaceful items. Don't keep moving the goalposts. You made Russia out to be Gandhi. I put them right with the US on making billions upon billions a year on weapons and now you want to backpedal and start on details of fine print and specifics. Take India out of the equation. Still makes Russia an exporter of death. And counters this elevated image you give Russia. Again, if the US' actions are bad and Russia is right there with them, why no hate and vitriol for Putin? Why is it OK for him to do what you say is wrong for the US to do?

 

[Pacer92]

What does this mean?

What do you think is the US/NATO ultimate goal regarding Russia?

If it's carving it up, I already know you're going to be on the beach in Crimea chasing bikinis around.

I think it obvious that Russia and all of it's allies are under attack by the US and it's cronies..

Sanctions, war and media demonizing. We are the bully, oppressor of the world. If countries don't submit to our global domination agenda they are attacked in some form or fashion.

How do people not see this?!

 

[volprof]

I think it obvious that Russia and all of it's allies are under attack by the US and it's cronies..

Sanctions, war and media demonizing. We are the bully, oppressor of the world. If countries don't submit to our global domination agenda they are attacked in some form or fashion.

How do people not see this?!

Okay, that's fine. But you said we had an endgame. Surely the endgame extends beyond merely demonizing Russia. Heck hardly anyone in the world likes them already, if you look at the polls.

Do you think our goal is to carve them up territorially, or just to make sure they can't exert a global reach, specifically financially?