Ukraine Protests

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#6,626
#6,626
I'm not going to get too involved in this, because I'm a poothead, but, as far as I'm concerned, if Russia is too weak to deal with a "Maidan," then it doesn't deserve to be a "country."
 
#6,627
#6,627
Rasputin_Vol said:
The US and NATO have military assets scattered all over Europe and you have the US and some of her NATO allies knee deep in the Middle East.

Russia has military assets mostly limited to it's former Soviet states and negligible (if any) assets in the Western hemisphere. Yet somehow, Russia boxed in to the FSU is a bigger threat to humanity than the US & NATO that are scattered all over the globe?
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They don't have to have world-wide military presence to be a threat to Europe was my point. Given the actions of the Kremlin in Ukraine and Georgia (even if they didn't start it), if I were a Baltic state or Eastern European country I'd definitely be worried. Already Russia has started seeing "evidence" of Russian "discrimination" in places like Latvia and such. If I were them I'd be glad to have joined NATO when I did. They joined because the threat of a resurgent Russia, maybe they were smart after all?
 
#6,629
#6,629
Pacer92 said:
Think we'll see some serious talks soon, or will Poroschenko keep making Hitler like decisions?

http://rt.com/news/227899-ukraine-troops-debaltsevo-trap/
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Poroschenko is on the clock, imo. There are already stories of Ukrainians ignoring draft notices and not wanting to fight. Their already weak economy has been diminished even more in the last 8 months. I'm not sure he will survive another 12 months without either the people of Ukraine pushing him out or the western corporate interests getting upset and impatient with his progress in the east.
 
#6,630
#6,630
Rasputin_Vol said:
Poroschenko is on the clock, imo. There are already stories of Ukrainians ignoring draft notices and not wanting to fight. Their already weak economy has been diminished even more in the last 8 months. I'm not sure he will survive another 12 months without either the people of Ukraine pushing him out or the western corporate interests getting upset and impatient with his progress in the east.
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What Poroschenko needs to realize his country is at war with Russia not simply terrorists. He needs to declare full military mobilization and put the entire country on a war footing. It may be too late but he needs to do something or the volunteer battalions will likely remove him.
 
#6,631
#6,631
Burhead said:
What Poroschenko needs to realize his country is at war with Russia not simply terrorists. He needs to declare full military mobilization and put the entire country on a war footing. It may be too late but he needs to do something or the volunteer battalions will likely remove him.
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The people don't want war... that is the problem he's facing.
 
#6,632
#6,632
All I know is this: I don't ever want to purchase real estate from Ras. Some years later, down on his luck, he's bound to come back and demand I give it back because he owned it longer than me before.

No thank you, sir.
 
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#6,634
#6,634
Pacer92 said:
And I think people are realizing it's an American/EU initiative...not a Ukrainian one.
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The sad part is that we have a lot of sanctimonious people in our State Department that have been over there for the alleged purpose of wanting to bring Ukraine more prosperity and development. If these people were really honest in November 2013, how could anyone at that time realistically advise Ukraine that their economic fortunes would be improved by joining or aligning with the EU when you had clear examples at the time of Greece, Spain and Portugal bathing in debt, despair and austerity?

No one in the fall of 2013, much less today, can argue that Ukraine would be better off in the EU. A more pragmatic approach (assuming the US State Department and those concerned for Ukraine's well being) would have been for them to wait out the storm and wait for the dust to settle, if they didn't want Ukraine to side with Russia's proposed Eurasian trade union.
 
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#6,635
#6,635
Burhead said:
What Poroschenko needs to realize his country is at war with Russia not simply terrorists. He needs to declare full military mobilization and put the entire country on a war footing. It may be too late but he needs to do something or the volunteer battalions will likely remove him.
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I don't know why the government keeps calling them terrorists. It's effectively a civil war.
 
#6,636
#6,636
Rasputin_Vol said:
No one in the fall of 2013, much less today, can argue that Ukraine would be better off in the EU.
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Explain this

ukrainevspolandgdp.png
 
#6,637
#6,637
I think one of the fundamental problems with this thread is that we, as Western/American observers have a lot more information about the doings of our government than we do about the doings of the Russian government.

For instance, our understanding of this conflict mostly begins with the 2013 absconding of Yany, and whether or not the US was involved in it.

Beyond that, we don't really have much information about the doings that led up to this event, as far as the Russian govt. is concerned.
 
#6,639
#6,639
Sorry, we don't speak Ukrainian or Russian.

The more I think about it, if there's one thing good this conflict can do for humanity, it's to make Ras realize he needs to finally take the plunge and move out to the Russian Far East.

This would be a wonderful move for all.

He wouldn't have to worry about the US government limiting his freedom, and we wouldn't have to worry about him promoting his vision of pseudo-freedom that limits the individual liberties of women and LGBT, or non-Christians, as well as clogging up our Internet feed (since he probably would no longer have it out there).
 
#6,640
#6,640
volprof said:
I think one of the fundamental problems with this thread is that we, as Western/American observers have a lot more information about the doings of our government than we do about the doings of the Russian government.
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I thought you read a book on Russian history?

P.S. Quit ruining the tread.
 
#6,644
#6,644
#6,646
#6,646
Velo Vol said:
What is the most tranquil era in Russian history? The Pax Russia?

Like I said, I don't get this:

Ukraine to ask U.N. to call Russia a terrorism sponsor



Why?
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I'm trying to find the answer to your question, but I think it has something to do with making things easier for NATO to intervene in Ukraine. If the UN makes a formal declaration that Russia is a terrorist state, then that invokes some agreement or loophole to allow boots on the ground and heavier military support. I'm going off of memory right now and can't find the source, but it boils down to allowing countries to take the gloves off if a country is declared a terrorist state.
 
#6,647
#6,647
Rasputin_Vol said:
The US and NATO have military assets scattered all over Europe and you have the US and some of her NATO allies knee deep in the Middle East.

Russia has military assets mostly limited to it's former Soviet states and negligible (if any) assets in the Western hemisphere. Yet somehow, Russia boxed in to the FSU is a bigger threat to humanity than the US & NATO that are scattered all over the globe?
Click to expand...

You realize that after the wall fell and the us and NATO were the supreme power that the world experienced its longest period without a major war right? And if it hadn't been for 9/11 the world would have gone even longer with major fighting.
 
#6,648
#6,648
Pacer92 said:
Interesting...

Ukraine chief of staff ?thwarts Western allegations? by admitting no combat with Russian troops ? RT News
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That part at the end about the osce is a bald faced lie or lie of omission, they may not have reported any troop movements on that day but in several of their reports they mention tanks, armoured vehicles, troops and the 'white supply trucks' crossing the border.

Also that general is touting the official line of Kiev (not fighting the Russians) also he said they were well supplied and ready after their troops got surrounded and cut off, he is putting on a bold face.

I was also curious about his statement on the 'Russians at the second tier' paraphrasing but that comment caught my eye and seems to contradict the we aren't fighting Russians thing.
 
#6,649
#6,649
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm trying to find the answer to your question, but I think it has something to do with making things easier for NATO to intervene in Ukraine. If the UN makes a formal declaration that Russia is a terrorist state, then that invokes some agreement or loophole to allow boots on the ground and heavier military support. I'm going off of memory right now and can't find the source, but it boils down to allowing countries to take the gloves off if a country is declared a terrorist state.
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I think this is correct but the UN going to have to step lightly around this as right now with Isis any number of European countries could qualify. I hope the UN doesn't do this.
 
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