Ukraine Protests

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#6,602
#6,602
Rasputin_Vol said:
It's funny that most want to question the election results in Crimea, yet have no problem with accepting the recent election results in Afghanistan where it took 90 days for John Kerry and the State Department to broker a deal where a president was selected and the election results and vote totals were withheld.
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Your tin foil hat is kind of tight today...

Pretty much every day with you though.
 
#6,603
#6,603
Pacer92 said:
Ukrainian
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If it's a smaller or medium country, not engaged in espionage or advocating violence, not a problem. Who really cares if Portugal organizes an anti-U.S. policy demonstration?

A more powerful country (e.g., Russia, China, Brazil)? No problem with what is alleged here (hosting social media training). One can imagine hypotheticals where it could become a problem, but not one (absent attacks) that warrants a military response. Instead, we'd prosecute the perpetrators advocating subversion.
 
#6,605
#6,605
Velo Vol said:
Russian bank cut interest rates to 15%. Great time to hit the BRICS Bank for a mortgage.
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Don't worry... when the USD crashes, we will think it is 1979 again and be thankful for 15% mortgages rates... we will have offer 3rd world bond rates in order to attract any buyers.
 
#6,607
#6,607
Rasputin_Vol said:
Personal attack, but can't seem to attack the substance of what I've said.


Also waiting on your response on how Guantanamo is different than Crimea...
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Let's see, because we have an existing treaty with Cuba, albeit not the current government, that allows us to be there. And furthermore, we pay rent on that piece of rock although Castro hasn't cashed the checks since he got into office.

We also didn't invade the remainder of the island with "volunteers" and force a vote that was dubious at best. And before you bring up the Bay of Pigs, don't. Way different situation with the Crimea.
 
#6,608
#6,608
Grand Vol said:
Let's see, because we have an existing treaty with Cuba, albeit not the current government, that allows us to be there. And furthermore, we pay rent on that piece of rock although Castro hasn't cashed the checks since he got into office.
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Russia had a similar agreement with Ukraine and paid a lease to Ukraine, although Ukraine did cash their checks.

And the US made more of an effort to over throw Cuba than Russia has Ukraine. The US has a 50 year history of attempting to undermine Cuba, while Ukraine and Russia had relatively amicable relations until the fall of 2013.
 
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#6,609
#6,609
Rasputin_Vol said:
Russia had a similar agreement with Ukraine and paid a lease to Ukraine, although Ukraine did cash their checks.

And the US made more of an effort to over throw Cuba than Russia has Ukraine. The US has a 50 year history of attempting to undermine Cuba, while Ukraine and Russia had relatively amicable relations until the fall of 2013.
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lulz at your concept of history.
 
#6,610
#6,610
Grand Vol said:
And before you bring up the Bay of Pigs, don't. Way different situation with the Crimea.
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I could not mention the Bay of Pigs and still point out several similarities.

Obama came out at release of the news that relations with Cuba were going to normalized by saying that sanctions don't work... at the very same time he was ramping up sanctions against Russia. :blink:

And what's the difference between NATO attempting to expand into Ukraine and setting up assets in The Baltics, Poland and eventually Ukraine, vs the difference in the USSR sending missiles to Cuba?
 
#6,611
#6,611
Rasputin_Vol said:
I could not mention the Bay of Pigs and still point out several similarities.

Obama came out at release of the news that relations with Cuba were going to normalized by saying that sanctions don't work... at the very same time he was ramping up sanctions against Russia. :blink:

And what's the difference between NATO attempting to expand into Ukraine and setting up assets in The Baltics, Poland and eventually Ukraine, vs the difference in the USSR sending missiles to Cuba?
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Is NATO sending in nuclear tipped missiles into Poland and the Baltic States that threaten the entire Russian nation?

And lest you forget, the deal was the Soviets pulled their missiles out of Cuba in exchange for our missiles in Turkey.
 
#6,612
#6,612
Rasputin_Vol said:
Russia had a similar agreement with Ukraine and paid a lease to Ukraine, although Ukraine did cash their checks.

And the US made more of an effort to over throw Cuba than Russia has Ukraine. The US has a 50 year history of attempting to undermine Cuba, while Ukraine and Russia had relatively amicable relations until the fall of 2013.
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Undermine the Castros, not Cuba. The Castro brothers have been a disaster for Cuba.
 
#6,614
#6,614
Grand Vol said:
Is NATO sending in nuclear tipped missiles into Poland and the Baltic States that threaten the entire Russian nation?

And lest you forget, the deal was the Soviets pulled their missiles out of Cuba in exchange for our missiles in Turkey.
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Does Russia have ANY military assets in this hemisphere that are as direct and immediate threat in the same way that the US has in The Baltics and Poland? Lets not play coy... You and I know exactly what the US & NATO are trying to do by going into Ukraine. Not only would NATO have another launching point for military assets on a bordering country, but they needed control of Crimea, as well, because that is Russia's only warm water port. If you cannot at least be honest and admit that we are using a double standard here just for the sake of the US gaining a strategic advantage, then you are not being intellectually honest, and your best option would probably be not to try to justify our actions and resume your personal attacks.
 
#6,615
#6,615
Velo Vol said:
For the entire oblast?
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The entire oblast was majority Russian and has been historically tied to Russia for 200+ years.

Its amazing that Russia has to defend why it has vested interest in protecting a port/region that has historically been part of its domain, yet the US and British have no problems justifying grabbing ports in other sovereign countries.
 
#6,616
#6,616
Rasputin_Vol said:
Does Russia have ANY military assets in this hemisphere that are as direct and immediate threat in the same way that the US has in The Baltics and Poland? Lets not play coy... You and I know exactly what the US & NATO are trying to do by going into Ukraine. Not only would NATO have another launching point for military assets on a bordering country, but they needed control of Crimea, as well, because that is Russia's only warm water port. If you cannot at least be honest and admit that we are using a double standard here just for the sake of the US gaining a strategic advantage, then you are not being intellectually honest, and your best option would probably be not to try to justify our actions and resume your personal attacks.
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The more relevant question that you will ignore as it's contrary to your tin foil fest is "did the US and NATO have assets that were threatening in Poland and the Baltic States prior to Russia getting involved in the Ukraine/Crimea?"

Unless the Baltic Air Policing is considered "threatening." And holy cow, four fighters are really, really, really threatening! Or the missile defense system that was cancelled way before this latest crisis. And was purely defensive in nature.

And what double standard is being used? If the Ukrainian People decide they want closer ties to the EU and NATO and less with Russia (which of course the historical bias comes into play) who are you to judge? The President of the Ukraine decided to go against the People's will. They revolted. The new President is installed. Russia, more specifically Putin, doesn't like it. Crimea votes to remove itself in complete violation of the Ukrainian Constitution which they voted to be a part of. And has no oversight in the so called "voting." Suddenly armed troops are seen all over the Crimea and suspiciously are using standard Russian hardware and "watching" the polls.

And now we have the rebels in the east that are continually funded and supplied by Russia.

But the poor innocent Russians are the victims in all this! They were being surrounded by NATO! OMG! OMG! The sky is FALLING! And even though NATO is no threat to Russia...really not much of a threat to anyone these days...you cannot be objective enough to see past your hatred of anything United States to see the greater aggressor here.

I haven't begun to attack you by any means. Honestly, you're doing a bang up job of attacking yourself by making ludicrous comments and wild theories about what's happening. Do you honestly think all those "volunteers" that just so happened to be Russians just appeared out of nowhere? And with standard Russian equipment? And all wearing the same clothes? And that 97% of the votes in the Crimean referendum happened to come back supporting annexation by Russia?

Seriously?
 
#6,617
#6,617
red butler said:
You are correct. I meant al sulaymanyiah province minus Kirkuk. I was too lazy to look at a map last night.
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About a third of my detainee compound in Camp Bucca was Salah Ad Din. With the remainder being from Al Anbar.

I keep waiting to see if I recognize any faces in the current ISIS situation.
 
#6,618
#6,618
Rasputin_Vol said:
Does Russia have ANY military assets in this hemisphere that are as direct and immediate threat in the same way that the US has in The Baltics and Poland? Lets not play coy... You and I know exactly what the US & NATO are trying to do by going into Ukraine. Not only would NATO have another launching point for military assets on a bordering country, but they needed control of Crimea, as well, because that is Russia's only warm water port. If you cannot at least be honest and admit that we are using a double standard here just for the sake of the US gaining a strategic advantage, then you are not being intellectually honest, and your best option would probably be not to try to justify our actions and resume your personal attacks.
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Exactly! Anybody who doesn't see it all from an American angle is a conspiracy theorist.
 
#6,621
#6,621
Heavy fighting between Ukrainian forces and Russian forces in Debaltseve.

BBC News - Ukraine battle rages for key town of Debaltseve

This is probably the most conventional war the world has seen in years I'd imagine. Oh and Grand wanted to let you know I have a PT test with Tipton County Sheriff's tomorrow for the deputy position. Feeling pretty good about it for some reason.
 
#6,622
#6,622
Grand Vol said:
So what threat was/is NATO to the Russian Federation?
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Can you not see that NATO is anti Russian? They've expanded over and over, closer and closer to the RF. The big plan is for a Maiden in Moscow so that western crooks can exploit Russian resources and money.

How does anyone not see that?
 
#6,623
#6,623
The beginning of the end – Russian forces take Vuhlehirs’k | Conflict Report

Good article on the battle. Says that the town of Vuhlehirs’k has fallen to the Russians and has closed the last main supply route for Ukrainian forces in the Debaltseve salient.

ato-map.png


That pocket is where the fighting is and is surrounded on three sides by enemy forces.
 
#6,624
#6,624
Pacer92 said:
Can you not see that NATO is anti Russian? They've expanded over and over, closer and closer to the RF. The big plan is for a Maiden in Moscow so that western crooks can exploit Russian resources and money.

How does anyone not see that?
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Yep, those evil capitalist dogs are barking at the gates of Moscow!
 
#6,625
#6,625
Burhead said:
I'm going to wager that the Russian Federation is move of a threat to NATO than vice versa.
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The US and NATO have military assets scattered all over Europe and you have the US and some of her NATO allies knee deep in the Middle East.

Russia has military assets mostly limited to it's former Soviet states and negligible (if any) assets in the Western hemisphere. Yet somehow, Russia boxed in to the FSU is a bigger threat to humanity than the US & NATO that are scattered all over the globe?
 
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