Whats Acceptable Anymore

#52
#52
Volz4lif3 said:
No we are not but after so much crap we have been dealt, we are gonna be happy this year with 6-7 wins and a crap bowl, it will kick start the future with CBJ at the helm for a very long time. Also I like to say 6 wins is not acceptable here but we need stability and give him next and 2016.. Let him finish his contract then let's talk this.
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We've won either 5 or 6 games for 5 out of the last 6 years....maybe 6 out of the last 7 if we don't beat Vandy and win a bowl game and the vast majority of this board will be fine with that and it will continue to be that way.
 
#54
#54
Volsfaninva917 said:
You wouldnt consider 6-6 a step in the right direction? Just curious what were your preseason predictions?
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I think most people would have taken 6-6 at the beginning of the year and been content-not happy, but at least felt we were heading in the right direction.

The reason some people are softening on that stance is that no one imagined just how dreadful the East was going to be this year (hell, FL was so bad they fired their coach before the season ended-and that was a HOME GAME). It's possible that Utah State will be the only team we beat this year that has a winning record. Knowing what we know now, 6 wins seems like doing the bare minimum.
 
#56
#56
tennesseeduke said:
Dagreek1998 had us going 14-0! Notice the 1998 in his name?

In a couple of years from now CBJ will be winning 11+ a year & then we'll be back to the Fulmer years complaints of wondering why we don't win the NC every year and 10 wins a season isn't good enough!

GOOD GRIEF PEOPLE GIVE CBJ AND STAFF 5 YEARS! I DON'T WANT TO HEAR WELL COACH X DID IT IN YEAR 1 AND COACH Y DID IT IN YEAR 2! YEAH WELL THEY DIDN'T GET HANDED A DUMPSTER FIRE EITHER THE KIFFIN STARTED AND DOOLEY ADDED GAS TO!

:thud:

TENNESSEEDUKE
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The "dumpster fire" was already smoldering when Kiffin stepped off the plane at McGhee Tyson.
 
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#57
#57
Dagreek1998 said:
Label me a negavol, don't care. But I have to ask the question. Whats acceptable for Tennessee Vol Football??? We all agreed that Dooley needed to go, especially after the regression in year 3. What have we seen from Butch Jones to make us feel that won't happen again.

When you look at the numbers, they doesn't appear to be a big difference.

DD vs ranked -17.7 points
BJ vs ranked -18.1 points

DD vs SEC -9.6 points
BJ vs SEC -8.1 points

After watching the Missouri game, I feel like I am watching the Dooley project all over again. And before someone starts the "were young" crap, its college football. You don't get to keep them for 8 to 10 years. I am ok with that argument in week 3 or 4 but week 12 is nonsense. What position group has noticeably improved. Still waiting???

I know everyone likes the recruiting part of it but is Dooley had solid classes. And lets not forget that Muschamp and Weiss could recruit, how did that work out for them.

I honestly believe that we as a fan base have ex-girlfriend syndrome. We get rid of old and fat Fulmer for young and sharp dressed Lane. Then Lane leaves and we want a dependable guy that will never leave us, Dooley. Then he pisses off the former players and cant get the job done, so we want a likeable guy who embraces our program, Butch. All along, we sacrificed the main point. Can he get the job done. And now that it appears that Butch might not be the guy, we start the excuse mood and blame the guys that were here before him.

Can anyone truly say they have no doubts??? If Butch couldn't recruit any better than top 20 classes, would his seat be the same temp?

I am tired of the acceptance of each coach, as long as he is not like the last one. Look at Texas, or Arkansas. Did it take them years to create a culture shift. No, but we'll keep waiting on our frog to turn into a prince. All along, surviving in a a weak East and allowing Florida to come to that discover years before us.
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i have a lot of doubts about the coaching staff. both about play calling on the field and how they handled some of the players. jones gets a third year because of recruiting. something has to give next year though. he has to win either 8 or 9 games or he is gone, hart along with him. in no way does he deserve a contract extension. his coaching just doesn't warrant it yet.
 
#58
#58
Dagreek1998 said:
Year One
DD vs SEC 22 to 26
BJ vs SEC 18 to 31

Year Two
DD vs SEC 12 to 28
BJ vs SEC 23 to 25

Year Three
DD vs SEC 31 to 40
BJ ???

I wont argue that year two was not good for DD by this was when Tyler Bray was inserted into the line up and the average points against SEC went way up. Of course, so did the points. But my basic point was that Butch's second year looks more like DD's first year. If we look at how this trends out for year three, can you really expect the Vols to put up the points DD did? And if AJ gone against Missouri gave us a sneak at our defense for next year.

I just dont know how Muschamp gets the axe at Florida with a winning record and we think 5-7 or 6-6 in year two of Butch is acceptable. Hell, Texas will be ahead of us by the end of the year.
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So, you are going to compare the roster available to Muschamp to the roster available to CBJ. Since you are so into "statistics". Why don't you run the level of athlete Muschamp had to work with to that which CBJ inherited. I work with statistics on a daily basis and it is easy to group data to prove any point you want.
 
#60
#60
This is offense and defense only:

Ole Miss has 12 Seniors in their 2 deep. We have 4.
0 Freshmen listed as #1 on the 2 deep. We have 5.
10 Total freshmen in the 2 deep. We have 16.

They are comparable, but having 12 seniors goes a long way man, especially when we only have one on offense.
 
#62
#62
Jones should get next year before any of this talk becomes credible.

That doesn't mean he is above criticism especially with some of his staff( I am staring straight at Mahoney and Azzani in particular...neither of their respective groups have shown a shred of improvement over the course of the season).

After that, 8 wins a season should be the minimum for a program that prides itself on being among the elite in the country.

If Jones and his best staff in the country can't get some major results by year 3, then maybe they aren't actually the best staff in the country.
 
#63
#63
If you don't see progress (or anything different from Dooley's reign) then you must not actually be paying attention to the game. Wins/Losses and the box score aren't the only way to a measure progress for this team. Not when you had to start with nothing due to the previous staff's ineptitude and attrition.
 
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#65
#65
sjt18 said:
Why? Why do we have to wait until there's a complete personnel roll over? Do you realize that Jones has NEVER coached more than two of his own recruiting classes in a game? Why didn't Freeze have to have a roster filled with his recruits to compete in the MUCH tougher West? His cupboard was FAR... FAR more bare than the one Jones inherited.

I like him. I want him to be successful.... I like ALOT of what he's done. But don't ask me to accept the notion that UT's rebuild is SO much harder than many others that were VERY apparent by year 3.

Was the "cupboard" more bare than when Franklin took over at Vandy?

What will you say if Arkansas beats Mizzou this weekend? Will you try the totally inane argument that Bielema inherited a better situation?

I am 100% for Jones being a success at UT. I am 100% hopeful that he will. I am also 100% AGAINST the stench of defeatism that emanates from the excuses being made here.
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Damn, I hate to do this. But I agree with you 100%. CBJ walked into a hot mess. But no hotter than any other team in similar circumstances in the SEC. I, like you, am 100% for Jones being successful. I am 100% for him being held accountable also.

The continual excuses just really surprise me. The ease at which they are accepted is as equally surprising.

The thing that is even more surprising is that the idea that because Jones is simply better than the "Dooley standard" he's good to go.
 
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#69
#69
Dagreek1998 said:
Label me a negavol, don't care. But I have to ask the question. Whats acceptable for Tennessee Vol Football??? We all agreed that Dooley needed to go, especially after the regression in year 3. What have we seen from Butch Jones to make us feel that won't happen again.

When you look at the numbers, they doesn't appear to be a big difference.

DD vs ranked -17.7 points
BJ vs ranked -18.1 points

DD vs SEC -9.6 points
BJ vs SEC -8.1 points

After watching the Missouri game, I feel like I am watching the Dooley project all over again. And before someone starts the "were young" crap, its college football. You don't get to keep them for 8 to 10 years. I am ok with that argument in week 3 or 4 but week 12 is nonsense. What position group has noticeably improved. Still waiting???

I know everyone likes the recruiting part of it but is Dooley had solid classes. And lets not forget that Muschamp and Weiss could recruit, how did that work out for them.

I honestly believe that we as a fan base have ex-girlfriend syndrome. We get rid of old and fat Fulmer for young and sharp dressed Lane. Then Lane leaves and we want a dependable guy that will never leave us, Dooley. Then he pisses off the former players and cant get the job done, so we want a likeable guy who embraces our program, Butch. All along, we sacrificed the main point. Can he get the job done. And now that it appears that Butch might not be the guy, we start the excuse mood and blame the guys that were here before him.

Can anyone truly say they have no doubts??? If Butch couldn't recruit any better than top 20 classes, would his seat be the same temp?

I am tired of the acceptance of each coach, as long as he is not like the last one. Look at Texas, or Arkansas. Did it take them years to create a culture shift. No, but we'll keep waiting on our frog to turn into a prince. All along, surviving in a a weak East and allowing Florida to come to that discover years before us.
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I think your right. In fact you shouldn't take it one more day. Just mail in your VFL card, pick you a new team and you will not have to put up with CBJ or Volnation anymore. Best of luck to you and your new team!
 
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#70
#70
ACvol3 said:
Arkansas has two SEC wins...
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Yeah, right, and...this year. Gee whiz, what will it take for people to understand where Butch started from to now. He knows there is a long way to go. But, no, we want results right now. Wave that wand and make it happen or you're gone. This is Butch's second year. I just don't get it. Oh, well. :thud:

GO VOLS!
 
#71
#71
sjt18 said:
Why do people keep using Dooley as some sort of standard that if Jones is just better than him then he's OK?

Dooley was a terrible failure. Freeze makes a good standard. Fulmer's good years make a good standard. Saban makes a good standard. If Jones just has to be a little better than Dooley then you need to step back and see how ridiculously low you've set the bar.
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You have ridiculously low bars (like Dooley) and you have impossible high bars (like Saban). Somewhere there is a middle (like Spurrier at USCe) that entails re-building a program. Jones is in that middle ground IMO.
 
#72
#72
So misguided. Texas and Arky likely will end up with the same record as us. But, yet, you use them as an example?
 
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#73
#73
What's "acceptable" or what do we "want?" You can rant and rave all you want about how anything less than 10-2 is not "acceptable" but it's a death spiral if you start firing coaches who do not live up to that standard. There are at least 25 college football programs that think anything outside of of the top 10 is unacceptable. The math dictates otherwise. Minimize the down years, maximize the up years, and push to allways be better. Not much else you can do.......The one great thing we have going for us is our fanbase. We aren't the only one who can pack a 100k stadium but a lot of programs in the top 20 right now will never draw 100k - TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Utah, etc.
 
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#74
#74
Dagreek1998 said:
Label me a negavol, don't care. But I have to ask the question. Whats acceptable for Tennessee Vol Football??? We all agreed that Dooley needed to go, especially after the regression in year 3. What have we seen from Butch Jones to make us feel that won't happen again.

When you look at the numbers, they doesn't appear to be a big difference.

DD vs ranked -17.7 points
BJ vs ranked -18.1 points

DD vs SEC -9.6 points
BJ vs SEC -8.1 points

After watching the Missouri game, I feel like I am watching the Dooley project all over again. And before someone starts the "were young" crap, its college football. You don't get to keep them for 8 to 10 years. I am ok with that argument in week 3 or 4 but week 12 is nonsense. What position group has noticeably improved. Still waiting???

I know everyone likes the recruiting part of it but is Dooley had solid classes. And lets not forget that Muschamp and Weiss could recruit, how did that work out for them.

I honestly believe that we as a fan base have ex-girlfriend syndrome. We get rid of old and fat Fulmer for young and sharp dressed Lane. Then Lane leaves and we want a dependable guy that will never leave us, Dooley. Then he pisses off the former players and cant get the job done, so we want a likeable guy who embraces our program, Butch. All along, we sacrificed the main point. Can he get the job done. And now that it appears that Butch might not be the guy, we start the excuse mood and blame the guys that were here before him.

Can anyone truly say they have no doubts??? If Butch couldn't recruit any better than top 20 classes, would his seat be the same temp?

I am tired of the acceptance of each coach, as long as he is not like the last one. Look at Texas, or Arkansas. Did it take them years to create a culture shift. No, but we'll keep waiting on our frog to turn into a prince. All along, surviving in a a weak East and allowing Florida to come to that discover years before us.
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So, you are asking what's acceptable for a Tennessee Football win / loss record, correct? Just take a look at Johnny Majors' record while he was a head coach, bro, because you have no clue what you are talking about.

Tennessee Volunteers (Southeastern Conference) (1977–1992)
1977 Tennessee 4–7 1–5 8th
1978 Tennessee 5–5–1 3–3 T–4th
1979 Tennessee 7–5 3–3 T–5th
1980 Tennessee 5–6 3–3 6th
1981 Tennessee 8–4 3–3 T–4th
1982 Tennessee 6–5–1 3–2–1 5th
1983 Tennessee 9–3 4–2 T–3rd
1984 Tennessee 7–4–1 3–3 T–5th
1985 Tennessee 9–1–2 5–1 1st
1986 Tennessee 7–5 3–3 6th
1987 Tennessee 10–2–1 4–1–1 3rd
1988 Tennessee 5–6 3–4 T–6th
1989 Tennessee 11–1 6–1 T–1st
1990 Tennessee 9–2–2 5–1–1
1991 Tennessee 9–3 5–2 3rd
1992 Tennessee 5–3* 3–3* 3rd (East)
 
#75
#75
UTChicagoV said:
If you don't see progress (or anything different from Dooley's reign) then you must not actually be paying attention to the game. Wins/Losses and the box score aren't the only way to a measure progress for this team. Not when you had to start with nothing due to the previous staff's ineptitude and attrition.
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Good lord! Watson Brown could make progress with Dooley's players! Its really not saying much when someone states "If you don't see progress, then you must not actually be paying attention"! Hell, CBJ should be able to take three days a week off and show progress over the Dooley years.
 
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