The guy Currie ran off at Kansas State just took out No. 2 seed Dook

#51
#51
05_never_again said:
It's been well-documented that Martin ultimately left because of a personality conflict with Currie, not just because of an AAU kid who got $200. That kind of stuff happens all the time and coaches don't leave over it. Let's also not act like Martin had guys committing first-degree murder on his team and Currie was the knight in shining armor coming into clean it up.

He apparently didn't have good relationships with lots of people in the athletic department, even including Bill Snyder, and did stuff like trying to control the kickoff times of games over objections from Snyder. Kansas State people seemed pretty ambivalent over his departure, which isn't really what you want to see.
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And Currie also didn't have good relationships with people at Tennessee when he left. That seems like more of a pattern than anything folks want to try to pin on Martin.
 
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#52
#52
Freak said:
Speaking of Kansas State fans, I also think they were pretty happy to see Currie leave. Doesn't seem like they wanted him either.
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Thankfully fan polls don't dictate things. They're as frequently wrong about things than they are right
 
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#53
#53
05_never_again said:
It's been well-documented that Martin ultimately left because of a personality conflict with Currie, not just because of an AAU kid who got $200. That kind of stuff happens all the time and coaches don't leave over it. Let's also not act like Martin had guys committing first-degree murder on his team and Currie was the knight in shining armor coming into clean it up.

He apparently didn't have good relationships with lots of people in the athletic department, even including Bill Snyder, and did stuff like trying to control the kickoff times of games over objections from Snyder. Kansas State people seemed pretty ambivalent over his departure, which isn't really what you want to see.
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Errr, you're glossing over a pattern and what turned out to be a major factor why Martin left.
 
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#55
#55
Freak said:
I don't know. Even if South Carolina had lost tonight, he's still won a lot of games the past two years.

I think it's more of an issue that you run off ago who's been to three-straight NCAA Tournaments and four in five years.

And I don't like the idea of an AD having a reputation as a compliance guy. In this day and age of college sports, how many coaches do you think like the idea of their boss being a compliance guy? :)
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Fair point on the compliance issue, but on the flip side, I don't like the NCAA camping out in Knoxville either, so I could argue that point either way.

People keep using the words "run off", but Martin left on his own accord, did he not? If he butted heads with his boss, I'd guess that was likely a two-way street, yet Currie assumes all the blame because Martin is currently winning at USCe. That move didn't look so somber the previous four years when Martin hadn't made the Tournament and Weber was 2 for 4 at KSU.. If Martin had gone to USCe and landed KSU on probation in his wake (Donnie Tyndall & USM), Currie looks like a forward-thinking AD for letting him walk away.

It's all really a matter of perspective, and following a win over Duke, it looks bad for Currie and KSU over what might have been for them if he had stayed.
 
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#56
#56
cncchris33 said:
Fair point on the compliance issue, but on the flip side, I don't like the NCAA camping out in Knoxville either, so I could argue that point either way.

People keep using the words "run off", but Martin left on his own accord, did he not? If he butted heads with his boss, I'd guess that was likely a two-way street, yet Currie assumes all the blame because Martin is currently winning at USCe. That move didn't look so somber the previous four years when Martin hadn't made the Tournament and Weber was 4 for 4 at KSU.. If Martin had gone to USCe and landed KSU on probation in his wake (Donnie Tyndall & USM), Currie looks like a forward-thinking AD for letting him walk away.

It's all really a matter of perspective, and following a win over Duke, it looks bad for Currie and KSU over what might have been for them if he had stayed.
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Yeah, but everything I've read makes it seem like Currie was the main reason Martin left. Are there any other reasons out there as to why he left?

As for probation: KSU didn't land on probation and neither has South Carolina. Some of you guys probably know a lot more about that aspect of the situation than I do. Were there violations at Kansas State or did they self-report anything they uncovered? Has he had any compliance issues since he's been at South Carolina?
 
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#57
#57
Freak said:
For starters, I don't put a whole lot of stock in FanSided. I've read some really dumb things there over the years. But there's no doubt Martin has a strong personality and that may not sit well with some folks.

Whatever the case, he seems to be overcoming the issues. Like I said, he's won 50 games at South Carolina the last two years.
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Agreed. Not real familiar with FanSided to be honest. Just seen the article and thought it was an interesting side to it. And of course with all that there is out there on the interwebz, it's hard to know what's truthful and what's not.

By no means am I trying to blindly defend Currie. I have my doubts about him. And again, that may be a jaded look at how this whole thing's played out so far in the past 10 years or so.
 
#58
#58
jhamilton1208 said:
Agreed. Not real familiar with FanSided to be honest. Just seen the article and thought it was an interesting side to it. And of course with all that there is out there on the interwebz, it's hard to know what's truthful and what's not.

By no means am I trying to blindly defend Currie. I have my doubts about him. And again, that may be a jaded look at how this whole thing's played out so far in the past 10 years or so.
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I didn't think you were blindly defending him. That article certainly brings up some fair opinions worthy of discussion.
 
#59
#59
Freak said:
Yeah, but everything I've read makes it seem like Currie was the main reason Martin left. Are there any other reasons out there as to why he left?

As for probation: KSU didn't land on probation and neither has South Carolina. Some of you guys probably know a lot more about that aspect of the situation than I do. Were there violations at Kansas State or did they self-report anything they uncovered? Has he had any compliance issues since he's been at South Carolina?
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I'm not saying things were peachy between Currie and Martin and that he just left to pursue other options. It is common knowledge there was a riff there, but I just think that Martin had a hand in that relationship turning sour too, for whatever reason (insubordination, ethical issues, etc.).

That said, it was Martin's choice to leave. He wasn't fired. Perhaps he felt he had no choice, but if the guy was that highly thought of, how was his best offer to get out of town the South Carolina job?
 
#60
#60
cncchris33 said:
I'm not saying things were peachy between Currie and Martin and that he just left to pursue other options. It is common knowledge there was a riff there, but I just think that Martin had a hand in that relationship turning sour too, for whatever reason (insubordination, ethical issues, etc.).

That said, it was Martin's choice to leave. He wasn't fired. Perhaps he felt he had no choice, but if the guy was that highly thought of, how was his best offer to get out of town the South Carolina job?
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I don't know if he had any ties to South Carolina. Timing maybe?

On the other hand -- just to play devil's advocate -- if he's a known cheater and horses ass, how does he land in the SEC?

I don't know. It's an interesting discussion. If Martin doesn't have any NCAA marks on his record and hasn't had an issue getting along with the folks at South Carolina, while Currie seems to have relationship issues all around, to me, that points to Currie being the problem.
 
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#61
#61
Freak said:
I don't know if he had any ties to South Carolina. Timing maybe?

On the other hand -- just to play devil's advocate -- if he's a known cheater and horses ass, how does he land in the SEC?

I don't know. It's an interesting discussion. If Martin doesn't have any NCAA marks on his record and hasn't had an issue getting along with the folks at South Carolina, while Currie seems to have relationship issues all around, to me, that points to Currie being the problem.
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No ties to South Carolina that I know of. He's a Florida guy, Miami to be exact.

And to be clear, I'm not intentionally defending Currie. They had a bad relationship, but I don't know exactly why. Maybe it's 100% on Currie. I find that a little hard to believe, that Martin played no role, but maybe Currie is just a giant pain in the rear who enjoys being in charge.

To use your question though, if Currie is such a meddlesome jerk, how does he land an SEC AD job?
 
#62
#62
cncchris33 said:
No ties to South Carolina that I know of. He's a Florida guy, Miami to be exact.

And to be clear, I'm not intentionally defending Currie. They had a bad relationship, but I don't know exactly why. Maybe it's 100% on Currie. I find that a little hard to believe, that Martin played no role, but maybe Currie is just a giant pain in the rear who enjoys being in charge.

To use your question though, if Currie is such a meddlesome jerk, how does he land an SEC AD job?
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That's a great question and the one that bothers me.

Either his perceived strengths outweigh his perceived weaknesses or our chancellor and committee made a rush decision when the guy they apparently wanted, pulled his name out of consideration.
 
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#63
#63
Freak said:
That's a great question and the one that bothers me.

Either his perceived strengths outweigh his perceived weaknesses or our chancellor and committee made a rush decision when the guy they apparently wanted, pulled his name out of consideration.
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I think they wanted him from the get go. I hear he plays very well with our big donors, so much so that I think he's a direct reflection of the direction they want UT to head in. I have very little faith in our entire AD right now. I'm just hoping Butch figures things out this year and then decides not to jump ship for a lateral job/downgrade just to get out of dodge. In terms of our Bball direction, guys and girls, I have no idea what lays ahead, but I fear big decisions are going to be made sooner than later that will determine our success for the next 5-7 years.
 
#64
#64
BruinVol said:
No many a lot of medicroe coaches have been there. Just like now.

If he goes back to the Dance next year we can talk but right now he took too long to rebuild.
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Not really. USC wasn't in a position to hire a Calipari, Krzyzewski, Izzo, Petrino-type head coach that can bring in 5* McD All-American talent in their 1st/2nd years, because USC's recent MBB history has been terrible. Those type of talented coaches have already earned their bones building up programs in the past, and aren't going to drop back down amongst the muddy masses to do it all over again, just to show that they can.

And nothing less than hiring a caliber HC like those were going to get the USC program winning any faster than what Martin has done at USC...

USC has been plagued with staffs over the recent decades that aren't aggressive recruiters, or had strong AAU connections. Eddie Fogler and Dave Odom were excellent coaches that knew how to put together programs and draw up Xs and Os, but often faltered on the recruiting trails.

Odom was fading out at the end of his career anyways when he was replaced by Darrin Horn: Horn and his staff was a step up recruiting-wise, but apparently a sizable step down coaching-wise - Horn's best year as USC's HC was his very 1st one with great talent Odom left him in Downey, Frederick, Archie, and Holmes. Every successive year after that one, the team lost more games and scored fewer points, until his last one (4th yr.) went 10-21 (2-14).

Martin took over and went 14-18 (4-14). But Martin is a coach that builds his teams around aggressive defense for 40 minutes, and everything else builds off of that. Many of the players he inherited from Horn's tenure were not good fits for that philosophy, and after that initial season, some 8 players on the roster either graduated or transferred out (or, in Bruce Ellington's case, opted to focus solely on FB instead). He was left with his initial recruiting class of 3 (Carrera, Kacinas, Chatkevicius), plus the lone holdover from Horn in Williams).

So the initial season was more or less a wasted year, and Martin started over by bringing in new talent that included in part Thornwell, Notice, and McKie.

After that - beginning with Martin's 2nd year at USC - the seasons took noticeable strides forward:

13-14: 14-20 (5-13)
14-15: 17-16 (6-12)
15-16: 25-9 (11-7) NIT 2nd rd
16-17: 24-10 (12-6) NCAA Sweet Sixteen)

This for a program that hadn't won a NCAAT game in 44 years. A lot of other programs have had more successful recent seasons that staffs are able to feed off of and sell to talent, to use to show them that they can continue to succeed like that if they come join their programs. Martin's staff - like several USC staffs that preceded his - couldn't really do that.

But now of course, they have something tangible to sell. We'll see how it plays out.....
 
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#65
#65
BP4Prez said:
Oh look, another pointless thread.
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Actually, I believe it to be quite interesting & newsworthy to point out...much more than most of the threads begun on VN. Martin has accomplished lots at USCe, just as he did at K-State. Don't know if it was a personality conflict or something else, but State fans were livid when Martin was fired, & Gamecocks are dancing in the streets. His teams play defense like heat-seeking missiles. :ermm:
 
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#67
#67
Freak said:
I don't know. Even if South Carolina had lost tonight, he's still won a lot of games the past two years.

I think it's more of an issue that you run off ago who's been to three-straight NCAA Tournaments and four in five years.

And I don't like the idea of an AD having a reputation as a compliance guy. In this day and age of college sports, how many coaches do you think like the idea of their boss being a compliance guy? :)
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I agree!
 
#70
#70
BruinVol said:
No many a lot of medicroe coaches have been there. Just like now.

If he goes back to the Dance next year we can talk but right now he took too long to rebuild.
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5 years is about right at South Carolina. They went 2-14 in conference play the year before he got there.

This is their first NCAA appearance since 2004 and their first sweet 16 since 1973.

Not sure how anyone can try to belittle what Martin has done at a place that has aspired to make the NIT for the last 20 years.
 
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#72
#72
No one knows anything on how Currie and Martin's relationship was. Hell for all we know Martin could have just decided it was time for a change and wanted to take the South Carolina job. When coaches take jobs elsewhere, doesn't necessarily mean it has anything to do with the relationship of the AD.
 
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#73
#73
VolFreakJosh said:
No one knows anything on how Currie and Martin's relationship was. Hell for all we know Martin could have just decided it was time for a change and wanted to take the South Carolina job. When coaches take jobs elsewhere, doesn't necessarily mean it has anything to do with the relationship of the AD.
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Nobody looks for a change and goes to South Carolina to coach basketball.
 
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#74
#74
Wait...I thought Martin left Kansas State for more money? I might be mistaken, but I thought that was the case? I didn't realize he was ran off.
 
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