Supreme court judge sends anti-vaxxers packing

#26
#26
McDad said:
Alex and Velo, you guys can get your panties in a twist if you choose. But consider this, do you worry about contracting chicken pox if you had it as a child? Or, if you have children, do you worry about your kids getting chicken pox if they've had it already? And, just for good measure, the prognosis of chicken pox compared to polio is not consequential to the subject of adaptive immunity and your fears of my children functioning as a modern day typhoid Mary.
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The case you are making for the adaptive immunity of the vaccinated population starts to fall apart as more and more parents make the same choices you've made.
 
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#27
#27
McDad said:
There is a lot of reactionary "thoughts" posted in this thread. I am a parent of 3 kids. Only 1 of my kids has received any vaccinations. That child did not have all the recommended inoculations.

Am I a bad parent? Of course not. I am happy to answer questions and give my reasons for my choices if anyone desires.

All of you who worry, be at peace. My unvaxed kids pose absolutely no risk whatsoever to other (vaxed or unvaxed) kids. There are 2 types of immunity, innate and adaptive. Once your child is vaxed, they have adaptive immunity. My child with polio/rubella/mumps/etc. will have no effect on any other child kid because that kid is immune. If my child contracted mumps, I would keep them from general population so as not to expose that virus to kids without adaptive immunity.

Innate immunity is something with which we are all familiar. You contract a cold or flu one season and typically do not get the illness again. The viruses are still present on almost all things you touch everyday, but your body recognizes the pathogen and destroys it before an infection sets in. The tricky thing is that cold and flu viruses mutate often and form new strains which aren't recognized by our immune systems.

We have spoken with our pediatrician about our decision. It concerns her in some ways. In others ways, it doesn't. For instance, she is more concerned about rubella than polio in the US. Polio is essentially a zero risk unless we travel outside the US; say, on a mission trip to under developed countries.

If my daughter becomes sexually active, then she will get vaxed against HPV.

I do not have an issue with vaccines. The science is sound and the benefit to humanity are astounding. I take issue with the administration of the vax schedule and the sheer number of inoculations recommended.
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Would you like to know the reason for this statement she made? Its called vaccinations.
 
#28
#28
bamawriter said:
The case you are making for the adaptive immunity of the vaccinated population starts to fall apart as more and more parents make the same choices you've made.
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No, it doesn't. Your adaptive immunity is independent of mine or my kids. In fact, if you have had chicken pox you could work around kids with an active chicken pox infection for the rest of your life with no infection.
 
#30
#30
bamawriter said:
I have, but I doubt you'd have read any of my works as they don't come with crayons.

j/k weez, you're alright.
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There's the rub. In TN, we know how to actually use crayons rather than just eating them.
 
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#31
#31
McDad said:
No, it doesn't. Your adaptive immunity is independent of mine or my kids. In fact, if you have had chicken pox you could work around kids with an active chicken pox infection for the rest of your life with no infection.
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There are people who either cannot get vaccinated, or for whom vaccinations don't take. It is those people you are putting at risk, aside from your own kids.
 
#32
#32
I have no actual opinion for or against vaccinations. Falls in my "don't really care" category, though I do get them if a doctor suggests I get them. Figure I'm paying him enough money he better damn well be right. But if you want to avoid them, just tell everyone you're allergic to eggs. At first, I thought this was just a flu shot thing, but every vaccination I've gotten in recent times has been preceded by rather or not I'm allergic to eggs. So my advice is why argue if you can keep everyone happy by saying your allergic to eggs? Just don't let them see you eating that Egg McMuffin from McDonalds and all will be okay.
 
#33
#33
McDad said:
There is a lot of reactionary "thoughts" posted in this thread. I am a parent of 3 kids. Only 1 of my kids has received any vaccinations. That child did not have all the recommended inoculations.

Am I a bad parent? Of course not. I am happy to answer questions and give my reasons for my choices if anyone desires.

All of you who worry, be at peace. My unvaxed kids pose absolutely no risk whatsoever to other (vaxed or unvaxed) kids. There are 2 types of immunity, innate and adaptive. Once your child is vaxed, they have adaptive immunity. My child with polio/rubella/mumps/etc. will have no effect on any other child kid because that kid is immune. If my child contracted mumps, I would keep them from general population so as not to expose that virus to kids without adaptive immunity.

Innate immunity is something with which we are all familiar. You contract a cold or flu one season and typically do not get the illness again. The viruses are still present on almost all things you touch everyday, but your body recognizes the pathogen and destroys it before an infection sets in. The tricky thing is that cold and flu viruses mutate often and form new strains which aren't recognized by our immune systems.

We have spoken with our pediatrician about our decision. It concerns her in some ways. In others ways, it doesn't. For instance, she is more concerned about rubella than polio in the US. Polio is essentially a zero risk unless we travel outside the US; say, on a mission trip to under developed countries.

If my daughter becomes sexually active, then she will get vaxed against HPV.

I do not have an issue with vaccines. The science is sound and the benefit to humanity are astounding. I take issue with the administration of the vax schedule and the sheer number of inoculations recommended.
Click to expand...

As someone else said your logic doesn't work if more parents start doing what you're doing. Thanks for relying on the rest of us who vaccinate our kids to do all the hard work for you.

IF your kid gets measles/mumps it will be spreading the virus BEFORE it starts showing symptoms as with most every other virus. Your idea of holding your kid out of school is about as effective as the pull-out and shoot method that you probably were implementing when you helped create all 3 of your children.

You ever heard of airplanes? Do you not think that people from these "under developed countries" travel here to the US bringing their illnesses with them? It's a two way street, it's not just based on whether or not your child travels outside the US.

"IF" your daughter becomes sexually active?! It's not IF it's WHEN. Do you honestly think she's going to preemptively tell you when she's going to have sex with someone as if to give you ample time for you to take her to the doctor to get her HPV vaccine?

You seriously have to be trolling because nobody could be this misinformed.

If your doctor and the other board of doctors that designed the vax schedule don't have a problem with it then you shouldn't either. If it still bothers you then tell your doctor you would like to change the vax schedule but still EVENTUALLY vaccinate your children.

McDad said:
Alex and Velo, you guys can get your panties in a twist if you choose. But consider this, do you worry about contracting chicken pox if you had it as a child? Or, if you have children, do you worry about your kids getting chicken pox if they've had it already? And, just for good measure, the prognosis of chicken pox compared to polio is not consequential to the subject of adaptive immunity and your fears of my children functioning as a modern day typhoid Mary.
Click to expand...

I didn't have the luxury of getting a chicken pox vaccine back in my day because they simply didn't have them. I suffered through the chicken pox and still have the scars to prove it. If I had the choice I would have taken the vaccine any day over getting sick and busting out with a high fever and blisters all over me. The fact that you'd willingly let your child suffer through a virus like chicken pox rather than vaccinate them for it should be a clear sign that you're not making the most informed decisions for your children.

You won't get chicken pox twice but have you ever heard of Shingles? It's directly related to chicken pox and you can get it more than once.
 
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#34
#34
bamawriter said:
There are people who either cannot get vaccinated, or for whom vaccinations don't take. It is those people you are putting at risk, aside from your own kids.
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Agreed with you that there is inherent risk. Just as there is inherent risk with any medical procedure.
 
#35
#35
coug said:
As someone else said your logic doesn't work if more parents start doing what you're doing. Thanks for relying on the rest of us who vaccinate our kids to do all the hard work for you.

IF your kid gets measles/mumps it will be spreading the virus BEFORE it starts showing symptoms as with most every other virus. Your idea of holding your kid out of school is about as effective as the pull-out and shoot method that you probably were implementing when you helped create all 3 of your children.

You ever heard of airplanes? Do you not think that people from these "under developed countries" travel here to the US bringing their illnesses with them? It's a two way street, it's not just based on whether or not your child travels outside the US.

"IF" your daughter becomes sexually active?! It's not IF it's WHEN. Do you honestly think she's going to preemptively tell you when she's going to have sex with someone as if to give you ample time for you to take her to the doctor to get her HPV vaccine?

You seriously have to be trolling because nobody could be this misinformed.

If your doctor and the other board of doctors that designed the vax schedule don't have a problem with it then you shouldn't either. If it still bothers you then tell your doctor you would like to change the vax schedule but still EVENTUALLY vaccinate your children.



I didn't have the luxury of getting a chicken pox vaccine back in my day because they simply didn't have them. I suffered through the chicken pox and still have the scars to prove it. If I had the choice I would have taken the vaccine any day over getting sick and busting out with a high fever and blisters all over me. The fact that you'd willingly let your child suffer through a virus like chicken pox rather than vaccinate them for it should be a clear sign that you're not making the most informed decisions for your children.

You won't get chicken pox twice but have you ever heard of Shingles? It's directly related to chicken pox and you can get it more than once.
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Not trolling. Thank you for vaccinating your children so I have the luxury of not. It is appreciated.
 
#36
#36
I am at peace for all the microbiologists, pathologists, and immunologists on this board to think I am endangering my children. To think I'm crazy, etc.

I hope you reactionaries will come off your chicken little roost of worry that my unvaxed kids somehow pose a risk to you or the public at large.
 
#37
#37
McDad said:
Agreed with you that there is inherent risk. Just as there is inherent risk with any medical procedure.
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What is the risk you are personally concerned with? What result are you attempting to avoid by not having your kids vaccinated?

And please understand that I don't think you are some terrible parent who should have his kids taken away because of this choice. It is your right as a parent. I'm just curious as to your reasoning.
 
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#38
#38
coug said:
If your doctor and the other board of doctors that designed the vax schedule don't have a problem with it then you shouldn't either.
Click to expand...

Really? So they'll stay home with my son when he's running a fever for a day or 2 after getting 3-4 doses? We have spread out the shots and my youngest reacts much better. That is being a parent and not believing what someone else says it's safe or good

coug said:
The fact that you'd willingly let your child suffer through a virus like chicken pox rather than vaccinate them for it should be a clear sign that you're not making the most informed decisions for your children.
Click to expand...

My son ended up getting it anyway from the shot so did I essentially force my child to suffer because of the vaccine? Damn

We are not sure if my youngest will get the shot but I can assure you I will be making the most informed decision possible. I would say it will be more informed than some other parent blindly following the given schedule
 
#40
#40
bamawriter said:
What is the risk you are personally concerned with? What result are you attempting to avoid by not having your kids vaccinated?
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Are my concerns relevant to the subject of acquired (adaptive) immunity and the non risk my kids pose to the vaxed population?
 
#42
#42
utvolpj said:
Really? So they'll stay home with my son when he's running a fever for a day or 2 after getting 3-4 doses? We have spread out the shots and my youngest reacts much better. That is being a parent and not believing what someone else says it's safe or good



My son ended up getting it anyway from the shot so did I essentially force my child to suffer because of the vaccine? Damn

We are not sure if my youngest will get the shot but I can assure you I will be making the most informed decision possible. I would say it will be more informed than some other parent blindly following the given schedule
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My wife and I both work in health care. The good people of this board would be shocked to learn that many MDs do not follow the schedule or all recommended vaccinations to the standard advised by the Academy of Pediatrics.
 
#43
#43
McDad said:
Are my concerns relevant to the subject of acquired (adaptive) immunity and the non risk my kids pose to the vaxed population?
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Genuine curiousity. But I understand if you don't want to get into that particular pissing match.

That said, your logic is still fundamentally flawed. Yes, your kids don't pose any risk to the vaccinated population, but as I said before, the more parents that make the choice you've made, the more risk that is posed to the unvaccinated and unsuccessfully vaccinated populations. If your kid were to get another child whose parents opted out sick, then I suppose the moral argument kind of washes. But if your kid gets someone sick who, for whatever reason, cannot get vaccinated, then you chose to take the risk for that other person, and the ethics of your choice become harder to defend.

Vaccinations work for the community when everyone who can get them do so. That guarantees the greatest amount of protection for those that can't. So your adaptive immunity argument really doesn't hold up.
 
#45
#45
bamawriter said:
Genuine curiousity. But I understand if you don't want to get into that particular pissing match.

That said, your logic is still fundamentally flawed. Yes, your kids don't pose any risk to the vaccinated population,
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This is progress. You aren't calling my kids ebola monkeys anymore.

Tell me about the unsuccessfully vaxed children; are you speaking of adverse reactions?, immuno-compromised?, kids that were still susceptible even after the vaccinations?
 
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#47
#47
McDad said:
I am at peace for all the microbiologists, pathologists, and immunologists on this board to think I am endangering my children. To think I'm crazy, etc.

I hope you reactionaries will come off your chicken little roost of worry that my unvaxed kids somehow pose a risk to you or the public at large.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with not vaccinating your kids but they are your kids, raise them as you see fit.
 
#48
#48
McDad said:
This is progress. You aren't calling my kids ebola monkeys anymore.

Tell me about the unsuccessfully vaxed children; are you speaking of adverse reactions?, immuno-compromised?, kids that were still susceptible even after the vaccinations?
Click to expand...

Yeah. Sometimes vaccines don't take.

And I went back and forth between "ebola monkeys" and "petrie dishes", but "ebola monkeys" just felt better.
 
#49
#49
I got chicken pox at 17. Vaccines weren't around in my youth. Was exposed to it a lot as a youngster. Then one day bam. I've got it. Dr's told me that having it that late in life could cause me to be sterile. Fortunately it didn't.

Why did I not get it till then? Oh and I've had my wisdom teeth removed twice.

As far as mcdad. It's his kids. His house. His rules.
 
#50
#50
bamawriter said:
Yeah. Sometimes vaccines don't take.

And I went back and forth between "ebola monkeys" and "petrie dishes", but "ebola monkeys" just felt better.
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So vaccines aren't perfect?

I'm impressed you (being a bama fan) can spell petrie.
 
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