So the Tuohy's were phonies (Michael Oher)

[hog88]

He is not mentally deficient, not addicted to drugs, not having a major health crisis. There is absolutely no reason an adult shouldn’t have control of his own affairs.

I don’t know how you can even think that keeping him under someone else’s control when there is no legal reason is okay.

And as an adult of sound mind he could have revoked the conservatorship at any time. He was a millionaire the day he signed his first contract so he had the resources

 

[Orange.]

I ask that anyone who has not read the petition not respond to me. Because it's useless and tiresome.

Take your solace in #250, if you like.

But I would like to hear any thoughtful opinions specifically on #229. And any other theories you may have as to why the Tuohys ditched at the decisive moment the idea of adoption they used to make themselves heroes, celebrities, and non-profit kingpins? And why the attorney they paid and assigned to Oher didn't tell Oher the truth?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Fair enough, perhaps, as pertains to that hypothetical. But it is still beside the point.

The conservatorship required the Tuohys by law to look after the interests of Oher and to report on their actions regularly. They did not. That is the substance of the petition.

Oher has asked them in the petition to terminate the conservatorship.

In the meantime, Tuohy's appear to have ignored all their legal responsibilities to very end, while continuing to leverage their story of the adoption through their called non-profits, having already excluded him from other monies.

This Tuohy PR onslaught is a lot of noise but never touches the root of things.

At least, from their perspective, they are keeping people from understanding the petition and from noticing the recruitment scandal angle.

I'll acknowledge that his coaches of record during his early years: Hugh Freeze, Ed O, and Houston Nutt are enough to let me know that if something shady was going on with the Tuohy's, his coaches were at best useless ethically and at worst up to their elbows in all of it. That's a trifecta of shady coaches.

I'm just having a very hard time accepting the "I just found out" line.

Other than that, the fact that the Tuohy's knew the conservatorship was still in effect far longer than it should've been and they're long-term savvy business people is very sketchy. If they wanted to do the right thing about that, they could've easily gone to Oher after he was established in the NFL and said, "Get an attorney. This needs to be dealt with." They didn't. Why?

I'm skeptical that Oher just found out about his adoption status and I'm equally skeptical that the Tuohy's acted in good faith for Oher.

As someone said earlier, it's likely going to shake out that neither side looks clean when this is done.

 

[Raebo]

If not for Michael Oher, all they’d have had to film is a rich dude that owned a bunch of Taco Bell’s with an attention seeking Germantown housewife at his side. Now I’m all about that Mexican Pizza but the Tuohy’s ain’t the stuff of Oscar winning movies. And I will guarantee you they wouldn’t have taken any interest in Oher if he had been a 130 pound clarinet player.

The reverse is also true. There are a lot of NFL players with a background similar to Oher but what made the book/movie is that a rich dude and his Germantown wife took him in.

 

[SpookyAction]

No knowledge of the book, but the few minutes of the movie I watched present Oher as a mental incompetent who couldn't tie his shoes or wipe his butt.
The Tuohy's entire scheme (and I find the word appropriate in this case) was self-serving from beginning to end.
I find no aspect or angle that was in Oher's best interest.

I suspect a judge in Memphis and the public-at-large will find Oher more compelling than local gentry who corralled a young man into a relationship that fulfilled all of their personal goals, not his.
Oher can make his case when he testifies or a gives a sworn deposition about his college recruitment. If his story tells how they steered him to Tuohy's alma mater and made financial deals against his best interest, which appears an easy case to make when he made nothing on his name and likeness, and they and their natural children did, no judge is going to side with the Tuohy's.

The white savior aspect is a real thing. I know my mother sure loves movies like that. That trope can be unconsciously powerful with people. They are usually not aware they feel reinforced and entertained by it.
Reminds me of the Pretty Woman Male Savior aspect.
How many movies and TV shows are about women saving men and loving them, despite the woman coming from a higher socio-economic status group?
Very few.
It is normally the man from the higher status group that saves the beautiful woman from her horrible life and uplifts her.
Even women prefer the story to be like that.

 

[UT_Tix79]

Without the conservatorship, Oher is ineligible to play basically.

 

[bamawriter]

If his story tells how they steered him to Tuohy's alma mater and made financial deals against his best interest, which appears an easy case to make when he made nothing on his name and likeness, and they and their natural children did, no judge is going to side with the Tuohy's.

The Tuohys claim otherwise. They say they split the proceeds from the movie 5 ways. Maybe they're lying, but given that they claim to still be paying Oher's share into a trust for his son, that seems like a very specific claim to make if one is lying. It ought not be hard to produce financial records for that.

 

[Orange.]

Without the conservatorship, Oher is ineligible to play basically.

Ineligible to play at Ole Miss, you mean. Because of the myriad recruiting violations committed by Ole Miss, particularly in the Oher recruitment? I think you're on to something.

Ole Miss would have been penalized and investigated, and the mega-booster called out publicly. But there is no written policy that the player is ineligible to play elsewhere? Otherwise, Washington would have been ineligible to play at Georgia last year, to cite only one example.

But where is the rule that says a conservatorship -- normally invoked only in the cases of extreme mental disability -- cancels previous recruiting violations, and also the rule that adoption does not? After all, both are forward-looking legal instruments. The Tuohys did not retroactively become his conservator.

Or was it backstage secretly negotiated with the NCAA by the multi-centi-millionaires, but there was no rule that permitted such a thing? Was it a secretly negotiated exception to the rules that did exist?

I suspect you're right that it helped the Tuohys get the kid to Ole Miss immensely. And to get out of trouble.

But it didn't help Oher. He would not have been ineligible to play anywhere else. And if Oher had not been lied to by the Tuohys and the apparently dishonest attorney that the Tuohys procured for Oher, stating that a conservatorship was simply the equivalent of adoption for adults, but instead it had been plain that the Tuohys would rather that Oher play at the school where they were mega-boosters than that the Tuohys adopt him at part of their family, I doubt Oher would have wanted to go to Ole Miss, anyway. He would have experienced it as the ultimate betrayal and seen all the Tuohys' previous talk about "family" as a lie. And that talk about "family" and "love" and "adoption" was the basis of so many of the Tuohys' post-recruitment money-making deals, in which they had no obligation to represent Oher's interest in before the conservatorship, but a legally binding obligation to represent Oher's interests in as soon as they made the conservatorship. But they did not. They represented their family's interests, which they had manipulated for their gain to exclude Oher.

Oher would have been developed better elsewhere. And without all the negative stereotypes about him made into memorial book and movie moments. He had nothing to lose in going elsewhere and much to gain. But in making themselves his conservators, the Tuohys were legally bound to act in Oher's interests (not their own). They broke the law by not doing so.

I think you're on to something!

 

[Vols All Day]

 

[SpookyAction]

The Tuohys claim otherwise. They say they split the proceeds from the movie 5 ways. Maybe they're lying, but given that they claim to still be paying Oher's share into a trust for his son, that seems like a very specific claim to make if one is lying. It ought not be hard to produce financial records for that.

Do you also give credence to their claims Oher attempted to blackmail them?
That claim put me off, big time.

Guilty people muddy the waters prior to legal matters that can expose their perfidy. That way people that trust them won't dig deeply when the truth clashes with their truth.

If I was Oher, I would have a forensic accountant look at any financial documents they produce, and compare them with bank, movie company, NFL teams, state, and federal records.

 

[n_huffhines]

I’m not saying it’s right, considering that the main stars/subjects of the movie were Oher and Mrs. Tuohy, but if the papers were drawn up in a certain way and there were 4 Tuohy’s and 1 Oher, there’s your 80/20.

When you see how the Tuohy's are portrayed and by whom and then see how Oher is portrayed by one of the worst actors I've ever seen, that's the real crime.

I want a movie made about me and let's have The Rock play me and how about they depict me correcting Einstein on the theory of relativity.

 

[Delmar]

The reverse is also true. There are a lot of NFL players with a background similar to Oher but what made the book/movie is that a rich dude and his Germantown wife took him in.

And a ton of poetic license. The movie bears some resemblance to the real story but not much. Like I’ve said before, we are going to find out who is lying. The money trail won’t be hard to follow.

 

[Vols All Day]

Do you also give credence to their claims Oher attempted to blackmail them?
That claim put me off, big time.

it sounds like he just sent them a demand letter, giving them the opportunity to settle the situation without it going public.

 

[wmcovol]

And as an adult of sound mind he could have revoked the conservatorship at any time. He was a millionaire the day he signed his first contract so he had the resources

Until Feb 2023, supposedly he understood it was an adoption.

 

[bamawriter]

Do you also give credence to their claims Oher attempted to blackmail them?
That claim put me off, big time.

It seems completely plausible. But $15 million seems like an insane amount to ask for when the claims in question probably don't total up to even $1 mill. So maybe he tried to shake them down but they are exagerating the amount.

Guilty people muddy the waters prior to legal matters that can expose their perfidy. That way people that trust them won't dig deeply when the truth clashes with their truth.

And plaintiff's attorneys tend to embelish the heck out of their claims. I don't put much stock into what any party says thru their counsel.

If I was Oher, I would have a forensic accountant look at any financial documents they produce, and compare them with bank, movie company, NFL teams, state, and federal records.

So far, none of his claims seem to have anything to do with his NFL earnings. And as for film accounting records, good luck with that. Hollywood is the home of nonsense accounting. Paramount is still claiming that The Godfather still hasn't broke even 50 years later. That's why I say that the claims in question aren't going to total a million bucks. 2.5% of a 300 million dollar gate probably means something like 500-700k split 5 ways.

 

[bamawriter]

Until Feb 2023, supposedly he understood it was an adoption.

No he didn't. He wrote about the conservatorship in his first book in 2011.

 

[SpookyAction]

It seems completely plausible. But $15 million seems like an insane amount to ask for when the claims in question probably don't total up to even $1 mill. So maybe he tried to shake them down but they are exagerating the amount.



And plaintiff's attorneys tend to embelish the heck out of their claims. I don't put much stock into what any party says thru their counsel.



So far, none of his claims seem to have anything to do with his NFL earnings. And as for film accounting records, good luck with that. Hollywood is the home of nonsense accounting. Paramount is still claiming that The Godfather still hasn't broke even 50 years later. That's why I say that the claims in question aren't going to total a million bucks. 2.5% of a 300 million dollar gate probably means something like 500-700k split 5 ways.

Yeah, I think he just wants their beak out of his drink.
I just personally don't have faith in the Tuohys to not have dipped their beaks.

The actors in Empire Strike Back and Return of the Jedi are still waiting for their share of the profits, which Fox said never made a profit.

I have read articles that conflict over the Tuohy's payout being dependent on net or profits from the movie. So info is not very conclusive about movie payouts.

I think Oher just wants legal severance. But I would check all my deals the Tuohy were involved in. They have not turned out to be as altruistic as portrayed.

Until Feb 2023, supposedly he understood it was an adoption.

I read this too, so that version of events is our there in articles.
So far, I find him more believable.

 

[UT_Tix79]

His lawyer claims he didn’t know, but Oher wrote about it in his book (or his writer pretending to be him did). He’s known it was a conservatorship. They went to court about it, the T’s, him, and his mom.

 

[Nerwen Aldarion]

Yeah but it isn’t that simple. He was told it was a conservatorship which was the adult equivalent of an adoption.

The question is, did he know that it was not equivalent to an adoption and was actually him signing away his ability to manage his own finances and legal affairs?

 

[AthensVol2007]

Ineligible to play at Ole Miss, you mean. Because of the myriad recruiting violations committed by Ole Miss, particularly in the Oher recruitment? I think you're on to something.

Ole Miss would have been penalized and investigated, and the mega-booster called out publicly. But there is no written policy that the player is ineligible to play elsewhere? Otherwise, Washington would have been ineligible to play at Georgia last year, to cite only one example.

But where is the rule that says a conservatorship -- normally invoked only in the cases of extreme mental disability -- cancels previous recruiting violations, and also the rule that adoption does not? After all, both are forward-looking legal instruments. The Tuohys did not retroactively become his conservator.

Or was it backstage secretly negotiated with the NCAA by the multi-centi-millionaires, but there was no rule that permitted such a thing? Was it a secretly negotiated exception to the rules that did exist?

I suspect you're right that it helped the Tuohys get the kid to Ole Miss immensely. And to get out of trouble.

But it didn't help Oher. He would not have been ineligible to play anywhere else. And if Oher had not been lied to by the Tuohys and the apparently dishonest attorney that the Tuohys procured for Oher, stating that a conservatorship was simply the equivalent of adoption for adults, but instead it had been plain that the Tuohys would rather that Oher play at the school where they were mega-boosters than that the Tuohys adopt him at part of their family, I doubt Oher would have wanted to go to Ole Miss, anyway. He would have experienced it as the ultimate betrayal and seen all the Tuohys' previous talk about "family" as a lie. And that talk about "family" and "love" and "adoption" was the basis of so many of the Tuohys' post-recruitment money-making deals, in which they had no obligation to represent Oher's interest in before the conservatorship, but a legally binding obligation to represent Oher's interests in as soon as they made the conservatorship. But they did not. They represented their family's interests, which they had manipulated for their gain to exclude Oher.

Oher would have been developed better elsewhere. And without all the negative stereotypes about him made into memorial book and movie moments. He had nothing to lose in going elsewhere and much to gain. But in making themselves his conservators, the Tuohys were legally bound to act in Oher's interests (not their own). They broke the law by not doing so.

I think you're on to something!

I’m not defending the Tuohy’s but you keep saying they gained financially like it broke the bank, all the while they admit they got paid and say they got couch cushion money and split it with him evenly, neither one of those will be hard to prove in short order.

 

[1 in 102 455]

Yes, but if he thought he was adopted, as he said, he would've submitted the documents he had, the conservatorship, and those would have been rejected because he's not adopted.

That was my point. He would've submitted the wrong documents and been denied a passport and would've learned, then, he wasn't adopted.

I think that could certainly be a scenario. A few thoughts, assuming he did travel abroad.

If his first experience traveling abroad was with the Tuohys, they could have done the paperwork for him and he’d been none the wiser.

Further, assuming the Tuohys did not obtain it for him, would the agency go into great lengths to explain his legal status, or simply state “we need your conservator to ______.” After all, he seems to have acknowledge his process was a conservatorship, but seems to indicate that it’s what he was told is an adoption process for adults. I do think that is going to be used to attack the genuineness of the whole thing, an arguments will be made he voluntarily entered m into it, charged with knowing the law and what he agreed to, etc. But reality is he was a young kid (legal adult but still a kid) that had no reason to question what he was being told, so I certainly see how this could happen particularly in light of how scarily easy it is to get a conservatorship.

Maybe someone on the defense team will ask about traveling abroad and we’ll get some answers lol

 

[1 in 102 455]

I would like to know if the Tuohys negotiated and gained NCAA approval in advance for an unjust scheme granting that a conservatorship absolved those boosters and Ole Miss retroactively from all known infractions, an investigation, and any other infraction that might come to light independent of an investigation. And the Tuohys then had the conservatorship signed or at least filed after that backroom guarantee was granted.

It's peculiar that they did not wish to adopt him, despite all their talk before and especially after. One is led to wonder whether a conservatorship might mean that the Tuohys could answer any questions on Oher's behalf. It in fact rendered him something like a juvenile or incompetent as opposed to a free man. Now adoption wouldn't suffice for that: 18 year old children are adults at law. But that would mean that adoption was never the Tuohys real goal, when push came to shove. The recruitment was.

We know that Oher was persuaded falsely that conservatorship was a mere form of adoption, and that (according to certain news accounts) Oher said at the time that he couldn't choose a school that his "sister" (his word) would root against. It's not at all clear that Oher would have held that view if he knew the truth about the conservatorship. It looks like the Tuohys managed to have it both ways. Conservatorship for legal and NCAA purposes but [fake] adoption in Oher's perception.

Anyone have any other theories on why the Tuohys ditched at the decisive moment the idea of adoption they used to make themselves heroes, celebrities, and non-profit kingpins? And why the attorney they paid and assigned to Oher didn't tell Oher the truth?

I think this is the crux of the whole matter. I think a conservatorship procedure was probably quicker/easier. The whole bunch feasibly could have received bad advise based upon the former sentence, but I find it hard to believe the Tuohys wouldn’t have known the difference or at least asked.

There is something more to it than just needing to help him with paperwork, etc. A Power of Attorney should resolve that and no court proceeding necessary. So, there is some mechanism of the status/restrictions of the conservatorship that was appealing/necessary to them.

 

[hog88]

Until Feb 2023, supposedly he understood it was an adoption.

I have a hard time believing that.

 

[hog88]

Yeah but it isn’t that simple. He was told it was a conservatorship which was the adult equivalent of an adoption.

The question is, did he know that it was not equivalent to an adoption and was actually him signing away his ability to manage his own finances and legal affairs?

He’s a college educated adult with massive financial resources, how could he not know, have figured it out or been told?

 

[vollygirl]

He’s a college educated adult with massive financial resources, how could he not know, have figured it out or been told?

What would have been his reason to question it?