So it's obvious. We still haven't attracted a top coach.

#176
#176
volberry said:
Jones politiced for the job. He wasn't on the list. He wasn't looked at as the next hot thing like BGSU coach is or how Meyer or Saban was when they were coming up. It was a con job to get hired at a premier program.
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Unfortunately this appears to be the case. Don Draper without the talent.
 
#177
#177
bowlinggreenvol said:
The instate talent is greater and deeper than Arkansas and Missouri for sure and probably not far behind MS IMO. Unlike a lot of our SEC and/or regional brethren we share very little in state competition for said recruits.
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Three points.

First, the talent we have had recently is an anomaly historically in-state (hopefully a trend, but doubtful, given lack of population changes).

Second, we actually have very tough competition for in-state recruits (though not from an "in-state" program) because the school is located in the least talented portion of the state while the talented players (especially in the southern/western parts of the state) are often closer geographically to Alabama (southern Tennessee) or the Mississippi/Arkansas schools (Memphis, which has always had a big non-Tennessee booster base in football). Fulmer himself almost chose Alabama as a high school recruit due to its pull in the southern part of the state.

Third, we do have more of a local talent base than Arkansas or Missouri, but our talent gap with them is smaller than our talent gap with Florida, Georgia and Alabama.
 
#178
#178
GRN1926 said:
Butch has a top 10 team at 2-3. Even if we have to part ways with him in the future he has brought TN back to the shore and proven that TN csn recruit with anyone in America. Butch has done positive things here, let's not overlook those.
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I agree the recruiting has been promising, but there has been two important caveats.

First, much of Butch's talent that has been here more than 1 year was due to a bumper crop of in-state talent/legacy players, not unique ability to land out-of-area recruits.

Second, much of Butch's out-of-area high-star recruits keep leaving after just a single season, rendering his top-5 classes more like top-20 classes by their 2nd year in town.

So far, no one has been able to consistently replicate Fulmer's ability to land top-10 classes built on out-of-area recruits that actually stay on campus once they are here.
 
#179
#179
BigAl said:
"Top Tier" coaches all get their start somewhere. We'll just have to hope that Butch gets his act together and becomes one.
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The smart ones script their path to keep themselves on the best destination. Saban skipped a UT type destination. Same with Sumlin, Kelly, Meyer. Even Freeze and Malzahn were careful with what jobs they took. A smart coach will skip Tennessee on that destination chart as too high risk of a death-trap for their career path.
 
#181
#181
Here is the thing..every successful coach at UT has had some connection to UT. They either went there and played, taught there (Neyland), or was an assistant there. Now I am no Vol historian so correct me if I am wrong but each and every "outsider" has been mediocre at best.

That is what Tennessee needs. Someone who bleeds orange and not because of a paycheck. Who that could be? I have no idea.
 
#182
#182
Mick said:
Dooley beat Jones if anyone needs a perspective.
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Jones beat Franklin....Franklin beat Freeze....Freeze beat Saban....Saban beat Richt....Richt beat Malzhan....Malzhan beat Pinkel....Pinkel beat Spurrier....Spurrier beat Dooley. See how that works
 
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#183
#183
MWAVolfan said:
You could get any head coach to eat dog sh!t right off the grass if you paid him enough money. This situation is ALL about money.

Alabama, after a decade of losing, backed up the dump truck of cash to Nick Saban's house and said "you WILL be our head coach. How much do you need?"

Alabama gets the recruits, not because the state of Alabama has so much more talent, but because they have a coach who knows how to win and a fan base that EXPECTS nothing less.

What SEC program's fans dont have the expectation to win every year? Maybe Vandy? That's it.

This isnt about team history, its not about crazy fans, its not about how much talent is in the state. Tennessee has pulled great players from all over the country. Its about money.
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You are dead wrong and delusional. VegasVol is right on the money. Coaching at UT has a myriad of obstacles as opposed to schools with top 10 traditions or in a top local talent area.
 
#184
#184
titansvolsfaninga said:
Jones beat Franklin....Franklin beat Freeze....Freeze beat Saban....Saban beat Richt....Richt beat Malzhan....Malzhan beat Pinkel....Pinkel beat Spurrier....Spurrier beat Dooley. See how that works
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Actually, Jones lost to Franklin. That was the first loss where Tennessee snatched defeat from the jaws of victory under Jones, which is now becoming a disturbing trend in the Butch Jones era.
 
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#187
#187
For the next coach, UT needs to break open the bank vault and hire the best coach available--pay whatever it takes, even if they pay saban type money---it will be worth it!
 
#188
#188
VolsRule said:
For the next coach, UT needs to break open the bank vault and hire the best coach available--pay whatever it takes, even if they pay saban type money---it will be worth it!
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We tried that. We floated huge offers to Gruden (better than Saban type pay), and big pay-raises to others like Sumlin, Sutcliffe, Kelly, Patterson. They all turned us down.
 
#189
#189
Someone please go to one of their boards and tell Michigan State fans we are coming after their coach. Please screenshot and let us know how worried they are.
 
#190
#190
It's the Tennessee VOL way. Roll the dice. Never hire a proven SEC winner. It cost to much. Tennessee had rather pay it out on the back end when they are forced to fire.
 
#191
#191
I don't remember who posted it on here, but I read a comment that Butch "just doesn't pass the eye test". That's where I am right now. He always seems to be....angry and defensive. His responses to questions, even the soft ones, are canned and repetitive. It's almost like he has his way of doing things, and that's it. Discussion over. People like that tend to surround themselves with people they can manipulate.

When you add in the mind-boggling coaching decisions we've seen...players who have not noticeably developed from last season (exception: Hurd)...and a team that looked decidedly flat in a must-win game against Arkansas, well...there's just something there that tells me that this staff, or CBJ, or both, are seriously lacking some of the essential skills needed to compete in the SEC.

He is a great recruiter, yes. But is he the right guy to lead the UT football program? If not, then that's like letting Rick Hendrick build you a race car, and asking him to drive it at Daytona. It just ain't gonna end well.....

I hope Butch is it, but I don't think he is, and my concerns go way beyond a 2-3 record.

Go Vols.
 
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#192
#192
FLVOL_79 said:
Here is the thing..every successful coach at UT has had some connection to UT. They either went there and played, taught there (Neyland), or was an assistant there. Now I am no Vol historian so correct me if I am wrong but each and every "outsider" has been mediocre at best.

That is what Tennessee needs. Someone who bleeds orange and not because of a paycheck. Who that could be? I have no idea.
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Not gonna happen in modern times. And there is nothing wrong with wanting a good paycheck according to market rate.
 
#193
#193
AllVolForLife_16 said:
Actually, Jones lost to Franklin. That was the first loss where Tennessee snatched defeat from the jaws of victory under Jones, which is now becoming a disturbing trend in the Butch Jones era.
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Jones beat Franklin in the 2011 or 2012 liberty bowl.
 
#194
#194
GRN1926 said:
Butch has a top 10 team at 2-3. Even if we have to part ways with him in the future he has brought TN back to the shore and proven that TN csn recruit with anyone in America. Proven we can get the talent to win big here. Proven that TN, just like it always has been, is capable of being just as good as any program in america. 100k fans pack that stadium every game even after the terrible football we have endured for the past 7-10yrs. This is why we can win again, this is why we will eventually win again.

It got ugly talent wise under Kiffin and Dooley but butch has made this an attractive job again. TN is not the same disaster it was 3yrs ago and love or hate him Hart commands respect in tbe collegiate athletic community.

We are a few bad decisions away from being 5-0 and this conversation isn't being had. Saying TN can't attract elite coaches is a bit extreme. That was a reasonable argument 3-5yrs ago but not anymore. Butch has done positive things here, let's not overlook those.
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Top 10 team? Wtf?....... This is what's wrong here. It's called being delusional
 
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#195
#195
GreyWolf1129 said:
I don't remember who posted it on here, but I read a comment that Butch "just doesn't pass the eye test". That's where I am right now. He always seems to be....angry and defensive. His responses to questions, even the soft ones, are canned and repetitive. It's almost like he has his way of doing things, and that's it. Discussion over. People like that tend to surround themselves with people they can manipulate.

When you add in the mind-boggling coaching decisions we've seen...players who have not noticeably developed from last season (exception: Hurd)...and a team that looked decidedly flat in a must-win game against Arkansas, well...there's just something there that tells me that this staff, or CBJ, or both, are seriously lacking some of the essential skills needed to compete in the SEC.

He is a great recruiter, yes. But is he the right guy to lead the UT football program? If not, then that's like letting Rick Hendrick build you a race car, and asking him to drive it at Daytona. It just ain't gonna end well.....

I hope Butch is it, but I don't think he is, and my concerns go way beyond a 2-3 record.

Go Vols.
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I wish I could like this more than once
 
#198
#198
MedicT said:
After what was done to Fulmer, UT has little respect within the coaching community. It will serve as a "project" for those attempting to bridge into a major program for the forseeable future.
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That could have hired a better coach after him but Hamilton settled with kiffen
 
#199
#199
With all due respect, I don't think we can make that assessment right now. 3 disappointing losses to rivals is sure to make us question, but we all know that a couple of years ago we would have been getting blown out in these games. There is clearly improvement. It just takes more time than we like.

volberry said:
All our hires have been just ok or sucked. So the question is, why can't we get that top coach who can run a program? There must still be issues out there.
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#200
#200
VegasVol said:
We tried that. We floated huge offers to Gruden (better than Saban type pay), and big pay-raises to others like Sumlin, Sutcliffe, Kelly, Patterson. They all turned us down.
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I keep looking for the thumbs down button and can't find it.
 
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