So it's obvious. We still haven't attracted a top coach.

We are freagin UT!!!! We are a historic program with lots of cash. Is there still a reason why no good coaches come here? They all pass up on us. I want the truth!!!

Serious answer: Because fans will want you fired every 3 years. The money is irrelevant. If they don't meet expectations and allow the media to basically invade their lives 24/7 and give 50,000 interviews on analytics and going for 2. Our fans are the definition of entitlement. We have no patience for mediocrity. And sometimes you have to go thru "mediocre" to get to "great." But the fans I'm talking about don't even read this much less understand it.
 
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"Top Tier" coaches all get their start somewhere. We'll just have to hope that Butch gets his act together and becomes one.
 
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Serious answer: Because fans will want you fired every 3 years. The money is irrelevant. If they don't meet expectations and allow the media to basically invade their lives 24/7 and give 50,000 interviews on analytics and going for 2. Our fans are the definition of entitlement. We have no patience for mediocrity. And sometimes you have to go thru "mediocre" to get to "great." But the fans I'm talking about don't even read this much less understand it.

You know you just described pretty much every fanbase of every blue blood program.
 
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This administration made it clear when they took power "the Neanderthals had to go", meaning Fulmer. No coach/boosters group would ever again be stronger than the administration/academics. They saw a weak point, chance to dump Fulmer and they jumped on it with both feet. All hires since that time have been at the mid-major price level in all sports. This will continue as long as they remain. The last presidents resignation was the beginning of the end of UT football as we know it.

WOW!!! I just had a get real moment. So my BIG ORANGE NATION will never be the same again? This is insane!!
 
I agree on Dantonio.... He was a Cincinnati coach as well . He's had a couple of questionable seasons at MSU but here is his year by year record there....
7-5 9-4 6-7 11-2 11-3 7-6 12-1 11-2

man I like Dantonio a lot but I think he will probably retire from State..I didn't realize that he played at South Carolina..wonder if they will go after him?
 
WOW!!! I just had a get real moment. So my BIG ORANGE NATION will never be the same again? This is insane!!

Unless we can hire a coach that can win in the SEC for 2 million or less, thats what they are willing to spend. Can we purchase the services of a Shaw or Willingham for that price? Of course not, they will say they are not interested, that will be the story and another mid-major will enter the picture.
 
No ****. We never will with this fanbase. If a coach doesn't turn around the ten year dumpster fire in 1 or 2 years, we are ready to jump ship. NO Coach wants to step into a place with a fanbase like this.

Well, by your logic we should still have Dooley.

Fail.
 
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No ****. We never will with this fanbase. If a coach doesn't turn around the ten year dumpster fire in 1 or 2 years, we are ready to jump ship. NO Coach wants to step into a place with a fanbase like this.

What we have here is in no way a dumpster fire. Every fanbase outside of Vandy and Kentucky in the SEC are passionate about their teams and that's what we are. The Tennessee fanbase is starved for success and have been promised over and over that we would turn it around and we haven't yet. To make matters worse we have our rivals hiring coaches and they see results in their first year or within the first three. The ONLY reason we don't have a rockstar coach is that we are unwilling to pay for one so far. The notion that coaches don't want to come here because of our fans is just dumb, just like your statement.
 
All our hires have been just ok or sucked. So the question is, why can't we get that top coach who can run a program? There must still be issues out there.

Looking back in time, trying to handicap each hire in my lifetime without the benefit of hindsight:

Johnny Majors - had just won a Naty @ Pitt - Homerun

Fulmer - great resume and support @UT - Strong Hire

Kiffen - Young, ex-NFL COACH - looked great at the time

Dooley - Not our 1st choice, not our 2nd choice - bad hire

Jones - not our 1st choice, not our 2nd choice - looked a lot like a Dooley hire
 
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They were not interested, as evident by the fact they actually turned it down when offered. Dooley was the 5th choice that year. Patterson has said he does not want to leave TCU for some time; he didn't even budge when Texas was interested.

VV, what is your opinion of CBJ?
 
So you're saying we can't pay what Missouri, Mich St, TCU pay their coaches? Their stadiums seat how many again?

I'm saying it would take a big increase for most good to great coaches to leave .

If u think Tennessee is gonna pay pinkels buy out, butchs buyout , and pay him around 7 mil a year your are insane
 
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Because this job combines high expectations with high obstacles to meeting those expectations. TV contracts and modern college football allow a lot of programs to offer competitive contracts, so our edge there is minimal, and even if it were more, it would be a high-risk job for the smart candidate. Here is why:

1. The number 1 factor in winning is talent better than your schedule;
2. The number 1 factor in recruiting talent is a local talent base with loyalty to your football brand;
3. 9 of our competitors in the SEC have better local talent bases than we do, including Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, Miss. State, and 2 are close/comparable in Arkansas & Missouri;
4. This means that if we hire a coach as good as those programs, we should still lose 5 to 6 games each year, due to their built-in local talent base competitive advantage;
5. Our program fired a coach who had, for only the 2nd time in his 16+ year career, lost 6 games in a season, a coach who was a HOF local who had appeared in the SEC title game the year before and won a national title for the program, a fan base who believes we should be "SEC title or bust" in our expectations, should beat our much-more-local-talent rivals Florida, Alabama and Georgia each year, and find 8-win-a-season contracts a "joke."

Given that the modern SEC features good coaches throughout, a coach to meet UT fan expectations would have to achieve what no coach has achieved anywhere -- out-recruit good recruiters for their local talent and out-coach more talented teams on a consistent, exceptional basis. That is why only an idiot (or a big-hat-and-no-cattle kind of coach, exactly the kind we have hired 3 times in a row when the better coaches all turned us down) would ever jump to take the Tennessee job. Fan delusions about the reality of where we stand in the college football landscape (lack-of-local-talent-base in a brutal-SEC-schedule with fans expecting titles-or-bust) is why we are here.

Butch has a top 10 team at 2-3. Even if we have to part ways with him in the future he has brought TN back to the shore and proven that TN csn recruit with anyone in America. Proven we can get the talent to win big here. Proven that TN, just like it always has been, is capable of being just as good as any program in america. 100k fans pack that stadium every game even after the terrible football we have endured for the past 7-10yrs. This is why we can win again, this is why we will eventually win again.

It got ugly talent wise under Kiffin and Dooley but butch has made this an attractive job again. TN is not the same disaster it was 3yrs ago and love or hate him Hart commands respect in tbe collegiate athletic community.

We are a few bad decisions away from being 5-0 and this conversation isn't being had. Saying TN can't attract elite coaches is a bit extreme. That was a reasonable argument 3-5yrs ago but not anymore. Butch has done positive things here, let's not overlook those.
 
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All our hires have been just ok or sucked. So the question is, why can't we get that top coach who can run a program? There must still be issues out there.

One big reason UT can't attract a top coach is because they don't have or didn't have an AD that can sell the job. Either they don't want to sell the job that hard or don't have the ability.
 
What coach would want to have to recruit night and day 24/7 , face the SEC schedule every year and o yea have to win at least 6 games every year or the fan base will make petitions all while having some of the worst instate talent to recruit

The instate talent is greater and deeper than Arkansas and Missouri for sure and probably not far behind MS IMO. Unlike a lot of our SEC and/or regional brethren we share very little in state competition for said recruits. For 3 years there, Franklin definitely made our life more difficult in TN than probably any other Vandy coach had before. There's quite a few under the radar type kids from TN contributing at other P5 schools, some in our own conference. I'm not suggesting we take the Mississippi State route but look at some of Mullen's classes; he takes 18 MS kids out of 25, of which 75% are mid-level 3*. It's not like MS is producing 20-30 4*+ per year.
 
It's become a revolving door of coaches. It took some other programs quite a few hires before they got it right (Bama) comes to mind.. We may have to keep trying it until one sticks.
 
"
Our program fired a coach who had, for only the 2nd time in his 16+ year career, lost 6 games in a season, a coach who was a HOF local who had appeared in the SEC title game the year before and won a national title for the program, a fan base who believes we should be "SEC title or bust" in our expectations, should beat our much-more-local-talent rivals Florida, Alabama and Georgia each year, and find 8-win-a-season contracts a "joke."

that is went to heii in a handbasket, when small minority of very vocal fans wanted "Phil" fired. well he was 10 times a better coach than any we have had since and more dedicated to UT than all our AD's
 
Jones politiced for the job. He wasn't on the list. He wasn't looked at as the next hot thing like BGSU coach is or how Meyer or Saban was when they were coming up. It was a con job to get hired at a premier program.


That's it in a nutshell!! The "experts" were all shocked at the Jones hire, because he wasn't really even on the radar. Before everything is said and done, the Dooley hire might look better.
 
Butch has a top 10 team at 2-3. Even if we have to part ways with him in the future he has brought TN back to the shore and proven that TN csn recruit with anyone in America. Proven we can get the talent to win big here. Proven that TN, just like it always has been, is capable of being just as good as any program in america. 100k fans pack that stadium every game even after the terrible football we have endured for the past 7-10yrs. This is why we can win again, this is why we will eventually win again.

It got ugly talent wise under Kiffin and Dooley but butch has made this an attractive job again. TN is not the same disaster it was 3yrs ago and love or hate him Hart commands respect in tbe collegiate athletic community.

We are a few bad decisions away from being 5-0 and this conversation isn't being had. Saying TN can't attract elite coaches is a bit extreme. That was a reasonable argument 3-5yrs ago but not anymore. Butch has done positive things here, let's not overlook those.



Are you serious? UT is a top 10 team with Dobbs at QB? Quit drinking the Vol-Aide and come back to reality.
 
I'm saying it would take a big increase for most good to great coaches to leave .

If u think Tennessee is gonna pay pinkels buy out, butchs buyout , and pay him around 7 mil a year your are insane
Pinkel makes 4 million a year at Missouri.
 

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