Athlon top 15 returning SEC players: #6 Derek Barnett

[Vol8188]

what about projected top 10 pick does not impress you? if this guy was not doing his job right, NFL teams wouldn't be clamoring for him.

I think it's a little early to make that claim. No NFL is trying to trade into next year's draft right now or anything with the hopes that they land him.

I think most analysis are simply calling him a 1st round pick based solely on his athleticism and ceiling. Let's wait and see what the NFL thinks about that. I know we've seen those projections go wrong more than once in the last decade (Bray and Tiny, James going far higher than expected, being the most recent examples).

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Barnett draws extra attention too. The difference is, he still produces.

Do you watch the coach's tape? Do you break down each snap? Do you know what responsibilities each player has in the Ole Miss scheme?

I don't claim to be an expert on Ole Miss. I did not watch them enough to know whether or not Nkemdiche was good. What I do know is that coaches in the SEC voted him 1st team All-SEC over Derek and Myles Garrett. The 2014 AP All-SEC football team

What I do now is he was voted 1st team freshman all-american last year like Derek. What I do know is that almost every mock draft has him currently going in the top 10 of the 2016 draft.

I think its time for folks to realize that there is MORE to football than the box score. Obviously coaches and GMs who know alot more about football than any of us on a message board think this guy is a helluva player. I for one am not gonna disagree simply because some other guy gets more sacks or TFLs.

 

[Vol8188]

Do you watch the coach's tape? Do you break down each snap? Do you know what responsibilities each player has in the Ole Miss scheme?

I don't claim to be an expert on Ole Miss. I did not watch them enough to know whether or not Nkemdiche was good. What I do know is that coaches in the SEC voted him 1st team All-SEC over Derek and Myles Garrett. The 2014 AP All-SEC football team

What I do now is he was voted 1st team freshman all-american last year like Derek. What I do know is that almost every mock draft has him currently going in the top 10 of the 2016 draft.

I think its time for folks to realize that there is MORE to football than the box score. Obviously coaches and GMs who know alot more about football than any of us on a message board think this guy is a helluva player. I for one am not gonna disagree simply because some other guy gets more sacks or TFLs.

And what prevents him from making plays then? There's no scheme out there where top Dlinemen won't make plays.

Suh made plenty of plays. Fairley made plenty of plays. Terrance Cody as a two gap NG made a ton of plays.

RK is not making plays.

 

[KBVol]

Do you watch the coach's tape? Do you break down each snap? Do you know what responsibilities each player has in the Ole Miss scheme?

I don't claim to be an expert on Ole Miss. I did not watch them enough to know whether or not Nkemdiche was good. What I do know is that coaches in the SEC voted him 1st team All-SEC over Derek and Myles Garrett. The 2014 AP All-SEC football team

What I do now is he was voted 1st team freshman all-american last year like Derek. What I do know is that almost every mock draft has him currently going in the top 10 of the 2016 draft.

I think its time for folks to realize that there is MORE to football than the box score. Obviously coaches and GMs who know alot more about football than any of us on a message board think this guy is a helluva player. I for one am not gonna disagree simply because some other guy gets more sacks or TFLs.

I tell you what, you look for the WRs with just a handful of catches and no tds, the RBs that average 3 yards a carry and the qbs with awful poor TD to int ratios and defend them too.

Me, I happened to notice that Amari Cooper was considered the top WR in the nation because his statistical production was off the charts which helped Alabama reached the final 4 playoffs. I also observed that whenever Chubb was mentioned as one of the top RBs in the SEC, they mentioned his 1500+ yds and 7 ypc. Jalen didn't put up the numbers that Chubb and for some reason didn't get first team all-SEC honors....what's the deal with that? Wonder if there's a connection.

Finally, when Mariota won the Heisman, they just kept mentioning his 58 total tds and they kept showing his impact plays....throws, runs, etc. Why didn't Winston win the Heisman again? His tape looks great. Could it be his production wasn't as good as last year?

Why exactly do you think Barnett and Garrett got so much attention/press as freshmen?? I'm guessing it's because they had nearly 22 sacks between them....at least that's what all the analysts kept mentioning when discussing them.

Guess they can just mention film study when they discuss Nkemdiche next year, cause they'll be hard pressed to show any impact plays beyond the nuance of commanding a double team for his teammates or creating a pile at the line of scrimmage to help defend the run. But hey, JJ Watt doesn't really put up any numbers to speak of in the league, so Nkemdiche oughtta be a star....

 

[photovol]

I understand that and your opinion is a valid one. My question is, if McKenzie has a similar career drawing double teams and players like Barnett take advantage of it setting records, do we call McKenzie's career a letdown or even a bust?

When they play for the Vol's they are hero's, when they play against the Vol's.....well... just screw em
Go Vol's

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

When they play for the Vol's they are hero's, when they play against the Vol's.....well... just screw em
Go Vol's

Valid

 

[KBVol]

When they play for the Vol's they are hero's, when they play against the Vol's.....well... just screw em
Go Vol's

No, when players produce at a very high level (eg, Barnett's production as measured statistically by his tackles/sacks/TFLs), regardless of who they play for, they get recognized. To demonstrate this further, I think it's inarguable that Chubb was a better running back than Hurd last year, with the overwhelming reason being because of his outstanding production....rushing yards, ypc, tds, etc. He was recognized for awards that Hurd was not and rightly so.

If all it was about is who's a vol and who's not in terms of proclaiming who the "heroes" and great players are, I would be on here saying that Pig or North is a better WR than Amari Cooper....,and I promise you, that ain't happening. It's about performance and production on the field.

If you think Robert Nkemdiche had a better year than Barnett last year then ok. I think it's a very difficult argument to make based on statistical evidence.

Edit: of course, I'm only speaking for myself. You're right that there are posters on here that can't put their Vol fandom aside and call it like it is. For example, Nationdom has us going 15-0, packing Neyland with 120,000 fans and winning both the Super Bowl and Lord Stanley's Cup.

 

[crusse10]

We'll just disagree then. If you're good with 1 sack every 6 games and a tackle for loss every other game then good on ya. Not me....not for a former #1 recruit in the nation.

As far as the NFL, perhaps they're looking at his physical measurables and potential cause they're sure as hell not looking at his game production.....if they were, Jordan Williams would project as a top 10 pick...same position, approximately the same size, definitely the same exact production.

You're looking at things as if production is the only thing that matters on defense in football. If every down he plays makes the rest of his team better, then he could never once touch the ball carrier and it wouldn't matter.

 

[rocktopper16]

David Amerson.

That guy will ruin any argument.

 

[KBVol]

You're looking at things as if production is the only thing that matters on defense in football. If every down he plays makes the rest of his team better, then he could never once touch the ball carrier and it wouldn't matter.

It's not everything, but it's BY FAR he best objective measure used to judge how good a player is and how well he's performing. Not sure why this is an issue. Who are the guys who get the recognition? Who are the guys who win the awards? It's universally accepted and it's common sense that the guys who have the best performances as measured by their statistics do.

Why do we consider Peyton to be the best QB that ever played at Tennessee? It's not because he threw the prettiest ball or beat Florida or won a national title.....it's because we can objectively measure his performance by the gaudy statitics (yards, tds, etc) which in turn led to a ton of wins while he was here. They were better than any other QB thsts ever played here.

I brought up Chubb earlier. Why was he praised over and over again and showered with awards this past season? Surely the answer is obvious.

Finally, let's take it back to Barnett. Why did we, coaches, the media, the analysts all say that he had a great season last year? Making his teammates better might've been brought upa time or 2, but really, that wasn't it. It wasn't because "he has great technique" or did things not tangible that an NFL scout could only discern from watching his film...... it was because he had a ton of sacks and tackles, a lot of which were behind the line of scrimmage....period. Not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp.

 

[KBVol]

David Amerson.

That guy will ruin any argument.

In what way?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I tell you what, you look for the WRs with just a handful of catches and no tds, the RBs that average 3 yards a carry and the qbs with awful poor TD to int ratios and defend them too.

Me, I happened to notice that Amari Cooper was considered the top WR in the nation because his statistical production was off the charts which helped Alabama reached the final 4 playoffs. I also observed that whenever Chubb was mentioned as one of the top RBs in the SEC, they mentioned his 1500+ yds and 7 ypc. Jalen didn't put up the numbers that Chubb and for some reason didn't get first team all-SEC honors....what's the deal with that? Wonder if there's a connection.

Finally, when Mariota won the Heisman, they just kept mentioning his 58 total tds and they kept showing his impact plays....throws, runs, etc. Why didn't Winston win the Heisman again? His tape looks great. Could it be his production wasn't as good as last year?

Why exactly do you think Barnett and Garrett got so much attention/press as freshmen?? I'm guessing it's because they had nearly 22 sacks between them....at least that's what all the analysts kept mentioning when discussing them.

Guess they can just mention film study when they discuss Nkemdiche next year, cause they'll be hard pressed to show any impact plays beyond the nuance of commanding a double team for his teammates or creating a pile at the line of scrimmage to help defend the run. But hey, JJ Watt doesn't really put up any numbers to speak of in the league, so Nkemdiche oughtta be a star....

If college stats were all that mattered, Marcus Mariota would be getting drafted 1st overall and Amari Cooper would be projected to be the 1st WR taken. Instead, we have Jameis Winston and his 18 ints last year being the consensus #1 pick and most folks have Kevin White going ahead of Cooper.

There are countless guys with guady college stats who flopped in the NFL. And guys with little to no college production that became studs in the NFL.

 

[walkenvol]

Now this, I can agree with. So much Leonard Little in this kid and I love it!

Yes they both played DE for UT very effectively, but their skill sets and body types aren't anything similar.

 

[KBVol]

If college stats were all that mattered, Marcus Mariota would be getting drafted 1st overall and Amari Cooper would be projected to be the 1st WR taken. Instead, we have Jameis Winston and his 18 ints last year being the consensus #1 pick and most folks have Kevin White going ahead of Cooper.

There are countless guys with guady college stats who flopped in the NFL. And guys with little to no college production that became studs in the NFL.

You're missing the the point. Why did either Winston or Mariota win the Heisman in college? How did anybody know who they were? Why were they singled out and recognized as top collegiate players? Same goes for Chubb, Barnett and Melvin Gordon from Wisconsin? Hint...it's not some nebulous, subjective unquantifiable concept somewhere.

Kevin White was both a physical beast at the combine AND very productive in college at West Virginia....he had 109 catches for nearly 1500 yds last year. So basically, the top 2 WRs taken in the draft this year will be the 2 most productive collegiate WRs last year..... they've essentially been valued by the NFL equally and if White is taken ahead of Cooper it's only because he's a little bit bigger and a little bit faster. Rashad Greene from FSU is considered the top senior WR on the board by Mel Kiper....guess how produtive he was last year.....try 99 catches for 1300+ yds. If he'd piled up say 40 catches for 500 yards last year, do you think he'd be Kiper's top Sr WR? I don't. And you'll please notice that it's their statistics that prove to NFL scouts and gms that they can perform.

Are there other factors that NFL teams look at when setting their draft board? Sure...size, speed, competition and offensive system in college factor in. But if you look at all of the top WR prospects, they all put up huge numbers in college.

As far as Winston and Mariota....it's not about WHICH will go first in the draft....it's about WHY they are being listed/mentioned as the top 2 QBs in the draft.....I submit its because of their performances as measured by their statistics which in very large part led to those 2 guys also being the last 2 Heisman trophy winners.

You've tried to turn a debate about how players are evaluated as good/great players and get recognized for awards into an argument about which players do and don't pan out in the NFL. That's not what I'm debating.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

It is quite literally impossible to write an article like this without personal opinion taking the lead role. Not 'being a factor' or 'contributing,' but taking the Lead Role. In other words, any list of this sort is just the writer's personal viewpoint.

Trying to pick "the best" among players of all positions is the broadest kind of comparison in all of football. There is no commonality of stats to compare ... there is no commonality of skill sets ... there is no commonality of opponents, or weather, or venue, or teammate contribution/assist, or coaching, or experience. So it is not an apples and oranges comparison, it's apples and wind ... apples and music ... apples and the smell of gasoline. Literally whole thought processes apart, beyond the ability to be compared.

This is much like the Heisman Trophy -- a popularity contest with very limited meaning beyond the hype. We love having it around, yes, but it is as out of control (the scientific method meaning of 'control') as an ice cream truck with no brakes heading downhill on a narrow, winding mountain road.

So don't spend too much time worrying about it, just enjoy yelling about how they dissed our fine players, then set it aside for stuff of real importance.

 

[crusse10]

In what way?

I'm assuming he means because Amerson had gaudy numbers but wasn't necessarily the best at his position based solely on statistics

 

[crusse10]

I don't like that you're comparing a position that isn't always defined by numbers to positions that are clearly always defined by numbers. A defensive end that forces you to never run to his side and shade protection by always having a tight end blocking him or a running back staying home on his side relates far closer to a Revis Island kind of corner. Revis has never finished higher than 5th on a season for interceptions, yet he's the prohibitive favorite for best corner in the game since the time he got drafted. You're comparing apples to oranges instead of Fuji apples to Gala apples

 

[KBVol]

I'm assuming he means because Amerson had gaudy numbers but wasn't necessarily the best at his position based solely on statistics

if you guys wanna take the position that at the end of the day, that the best players in football DON'T score the most touchdowns, throw and run for the most yards, record the most tackles, sacks and interceptions, then go ahead. And then, if you wanna take the position that the players who get the most recognition/win the most awards/are considered the best players DONT typically accumulate the best statistics as a measure of their performance, then by all means have at it.

I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that if two defensive players play in the same conference vs by and large similar competition and one of them, having played in the same number of games, records 5 times as many sacks and TFLs for loss and twice as many tackles (3 categories of statistics universally considered the best objective measures for determining how well defensive players are performing) should/could be considered the better player.

Who was a better QB last year? Brandon Allen or Dak Prescott? You say Prescott? Why? How do you know? What objectives measures are you using to make that judgment/determination? Is it because he threw for more yards, more tds, a higher completion percentage? Of course it is.

 

[JC61]

I'm kinda on the fence w/ this one...stats and production is what everyone sees and remembers, but there are other factors that just cannot be waived. If the guy is so disruptive that the competition puts multiple players on him, or plays to the other side of the field, then stats are likely to be less than expected...but it gives another player the opportunity to make the play.

To say he isn't performing....and someone mentioned Suh, who may be one of the most disruptive guys that has played....well....here are stats for comparison

Games Solo Asst Total Loss Sack
Nkemdiche- SO 13 11 24 35 4.0 2.0

Suh SO 14 12 7 19 7.0 3.5

production is fairly close...with 1 less game

nevertheless, like others have stated...I'd take Barnett everyday of the week and twice on Saturday.

 

[KBVol]

I don't like that you're comparing a position that isn't always defined by numbers to positions that are clearly always defined by numbers. A defensive end that forces you to never run to his side and shade protection by always having a tight end blocking him or a running back staying home on his side relates far closer to a Revis Island kind of corner. Revis has never finished higher than 5th on a season for interceptions, yet he's the prohibitive favorite for best corner in the game since the time he got drafted. You're comparing apples to oranges instead of Fuji apples to Gala apples

I understand your Revis example, point taken.

Let me try another generic example...JJ Watt. Watt is undoubtedly the most dominant DT/DLineman in the game. He surely is schemed against more than any other DL in the league. I'm betting he sees more exotic blocking schemes than any other player in the NFL and that offenses do their best to run away from him. Are you telling me that I can't determine that he's a better DT than say the Titans' Jurell Casey? Casey's a very good player, teams scheme for him, yet he doesn't record the same number of sacks, TFLs and pass breakups.

I compared Nkemdiche's first 2 years to Reggie White's first 2 years at Tennessee....similarly sized, same position, and surely Reggie was specifically schemed for/against like you're suggesting Nkemdiche has been....yet his statistics were far and away better. Can I not say that Reggie was better? And if you agree that I indeed can, on what basis? I say the things that measure their performances.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You're missing the the point. Why did either Winston or Mariota win the Heisman in college? How did anybody know who they were? Why were they singled out and recognized as top collegiate players? Same goes for Chubb, Barnett and Melvin Gordon from Wisconsin? Hint...it's not some nebulous, subjective unquantifiable concept somewhere.

Kevin White was both a physical beast at the combine AND very productive in college at West Virginia....he had 109 catches for nearly 1500 yds last year. So basically, the top 2 WRs taken in the draft this year will be the 2 most productive collegiate WRs last year..... they've essentially been valued by the NFL equally and if White is taken ahead of Cooper it's only because he's a little bit bigger and a little bit faster. Rashad Greene from FSU is considered the top senior WR on the board by Mel Kiper....guess how produtive he was last year.....try 99 catches for 1300+ yds. If he'd piled up say 40 catches for 500 yards last year, do you think he'd be Kiper's top Sr WR? I don't. And you'll please notice that it's their statistics that prove to NFL scouts and gms that they can perform.

Are there other factors that NFL teams look at when setting their draft board? Sure...size, speed, competition and offensive system in college factor in. But if you look at all of the top WR prospects, they all put up huge numbers in college.

As far as Winston and Mariota....it's not about WHICH will go first in the draft....it's about WHY they are being listed/mentioned as the top 2 QBs in the draft.....I submit its because of their performances as measured by their statistics which in very large part led to those 2 guys also being the last 2 Heisman trophy winners.

You've tried to turn a debate about how players are evaluated as good/great players and get recognized for awards into an argument about which players do and don't pan out in the NFL. That's not what I'm debating.

I think you're confused about what I'm saying. I never argued production doesn't matter. It matters ALOT. In most cases its the most important factor along with physical measureables. My only argument is that its not the end all be all. Its just one facet in a multi-pronged analysis. How a player gets that production is more important. The eye test matters. What you put on film matters. The type of scheme and teammates a player has matters. and so on.

This is why the draft and recruiting are a crap shoot. A guy could have the best production or measurables on the planet at one level and flop on another. We see it all the time.

I was watching Path to the Draft on NFL Network last night and the analysts like Daniel Jeremiah (former NFL scout) were comparing Bud Dupree of Kentucky to the other elite pass rushers in the draft. One of the key points they made on the show is that one of the reasons Bud Dupree had less production last year (7.5 sacks) than Shane Ray (14.5 sacks) was because in the Kentucky defensive scheme, he had more responsibilities in containing running lanes than Ray did at Missouri. So while Ray was able to pin his ears back and rush the passer every down, Dupree had to cover the rushing lanes on many downs. Thus, you can't really argue that Shane Ray is cleary a better pass rusher than Bud Dupree simply because he got more sacks last year. You have to account for differences in scheme and responsibility.

That is why they say film don't lie. Not stats don't lie.

 

[KBVol]

I think you're confused about what I'm saying. I never argued production doesn't matter. It matters ALOT. In most cases its the most important factor along with physical measureables. My only argument is that its not the end all be all. Its just one facet in a multi-pronged analysis. How a player gets that production is more important. The eye test matters. What you put on film matters. The type of scheme and teammates a player has matters. and so on.

This is why the draft and recruiting are a crap shoot. A guy could have the best production or measurables on the planet at one level and flop on another. We see it all the time.

I was watching Path to the Draft on NFL Network last night and the analysts like Daniel Jeremiah (former NFL scout) were comparing Bud Dupree of Kentucky to the other elite pass rushers in the draft. One of the key points they made on the show is that one of the reasons Bud Dupree had less production last year (7.5 sacks) than Shane Ray (14.5 sacks) was because in the Kentucky defensive scheme, he had more responsibilities in containing running lanes than Ray did at Missouri. So while Ray was able to pin his ears back and rush the passer every down, Dupree had to cover the rushing lanes on many downs. Thus, you can't really argue that Shane Ray is cleary a better pass rusher than Bud Dupree simply because he got more sacks last year. You have to account for differences in scheme and responsibility.

That is why they say film don't lie. Not stats don't lie.

We're somewhat arguing different points. Don't disagree with anything in this post, I really don't, it's well stated.

But let's go back to Nkemdiche real quick. I seriously doubt that OleMiss put him in a scheme that wouldn't try to take advantage of his incredible athletic ability and skillset. It would be foolish to do so imo and I think the fact that they move him all over the place, from side to side on their DL which I assume is to try and create mismatches for him and help defeat the offense's attempt to scheme him and/or run away from him, illustrates that they are in fact trying to put him in the best spots/situstions to be productive for their defense. Yet, his statistical production was pedestrian at best. Doesn't mean he didn't have a positive impact for their defense, but I would argue all day long and twice on Sunday, that they would prefer he provide many more splash plays and disruption than his 2 sacks and 12 TFLs suggest he did.

There are plenty of other DLs/DEs in the conference and country that get similar attention to RN who recorded much more defensive production than he did.....I say one of those guys was Barnett, by a good bit, which is why I was more than perplexed at their saying that RN is a better returning player than DB....there's just no evidence to support it.

Finally, I would also argue that it's easier to scheme and run away from a DE that primarily stays on the weak side like Barnett than it is to scheme vs a DT with the physical gifts that RN has. Reggie White demonstrated what a dominant DT looks like while getting everything but the kitchen sink thrown at him and we know this beyond just the eye test which he passed with flying colors...... it was his gaudy statistics/production that ultimately defined his greatness. RN has not shown that he's as good a defensive player as Barnett to this point imo....and he's not remotely in Reggie's stratosphere.

 

[KBVol]

I'm kinda on the fence w/ this one...stats and production is what everyone sees and remembers, but there are other factors that just cannot be waived. If the guy is so disruptive that the competition puts multiple players on him, or plays to the other side of the field, then stats are likely to be less than expected...but it gives another player the opportunity to make the play.

To say he isn't performing....and someone mentioned Suh, who may be one of the most disruptive guys that has played....well....here are stats for comparison

Games Solo Asst Total Loss Sack
Nkemdiche- SO 13 11 24 35 4.0 2.0

Suh SO 14 12 7 19 7.0 3.5

production is fairly close...with 1 less game

nevertheless, like others have stated...I'd take Barnett everyday of the week and twice on Saturday.

I looked at what many would consider the top 10 DTs in the SEC from last year, 2014, and where Nkemdiche ranked in terms of total tackles, tackles for loss and sacks....3 universally held statistical measures for DTs.

Those top 10 are (I substituted Jordan Williams for A'Shawn Robinson for good measure because I thought Jordan had an outstanding season and because, quite honestly, his stats were virtually identical to Nkemdiche's)....

Robert Nkemdiche, Ole Miss
Harold Brantley, Missouri
Lucas Vincent, Missouri
Chris Jones, Miss St
Darius Philon, Arky
Jonathan Allen, Alabama
Taiwan Johnson, Arky
Montravius Adams, Auburn
Isaac Gross, OleMiss
Jordan Williams, Tennessee

Ranks for Nkemdiche among these 10....

Tackles- 6th
Tackles for loss- T-10th
Sacks- T-10th

Now, I know the argument for Nkemdiche is that he does a lot of subjective things for his team while taking on double, triple and evidently quadruple-teams. However, I seriously doubt that these other 9 DTs were always single teamed and not schemed against.

 

[JC61]

I looked at what many would consider the top 10 DTs in the SEC from last year, 2014, and where Nkemdiche ranked in terms of total tackles, tackles for loss and sacks....3 universally held statistical measures for DTs.

Those top 10 are (I substituted Jordan Williams for A'Shawn Robinson for good measure because I thought Jordan had an outstanding season and because, quite honestly, his stats were virtually identical to Nkemdiche's)....

Robert Nkemdiche, Ole Miss
Harold Brantley, Missouri
Lucas Vincent, Missouri
Chris Jones, Miss St
Darius Philon, Arky
Jonathan Allen, Alabama
Taiwan Johnson, Arky
Montravius Adams, Auburn
Isaac Gross, OleMiss
Jordan Williams, Tennessee

Ranks for Nkemdiche among these 10....

Tackles- 6th
Tackles for loss- T-10th
Sacks- T-10th

Now, I know the argument for Nkemdiche is that he does a lot of subjective things for his team while taking on double, triple and evidently quadruple-teams. However, I seriously doubt that these other 9 DTs were always single teamed and not schemed against.

I'm not here to say that Nkemdiche is the best thing going on the DL and stats wise he is quite average given the list of top 10's....they're all fairly close stats wise and you'd have to determine which factor is more important to ween the list down. Brantley, Philon and Adams seem to be top 3ish across the board though.

He does frequently draw double teams...sometimes triple...not sure about the quadruple or more, but I'm sure the others do as well...just not sure of if the frequency is on par.

I went through the stats as well (maybe not the same site) but will say...if they stay true to form our Vols are going to have their hands full w/ those two dudes from Arkansas.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

We're somewhat arguing different points. Don't disagree with anything in this post, I really don't, it's well stated.

But let's go back to Nkemdiche real quick. I seriously doubt that OleMiss put him in a scheme that wouldn't try to take advantage of his incredible athletic ability and skillset. It would be foolish to do so imo and I think the fact that they move him all over the place, from side to side on their DL which I assume is to try and create mismatches for him and help defeat the offense's attempt to scheme him and/or run away from him, illustrates that they are in fact trying to put him in the best spots/situstions to be productive for their defense. Yet, his statistical production was pedestrian at best. Doesn't mean he didn't have a positive impact for their defense, but I would argue all day long and twice on Sunday, that they would prefer he provide many more splash plays and disruption than his 2 sacks and 12 TFLs suggest he did.

There are plenty of other DLs/DEs in the conference and country that get similar attention to RN who recorded much more defensive production than he did.....I say one of those guys was Barnett, by a good bit, which is why I was more than perplexed at their saying that RN is a better returning player than DB....there's just no evidence to support it.

Finally, I would also argue that it's easier to scheme and run away from a DE that primarily stays on the weak side like Barnett than it is to scheme vs a DT with the physical gifts that RN has. Reggie White demonstrated what a dominant DT looks like while getting everything but the kitchen sink thrown at him and we know this beyond just the eye test which he passed with flying colors...... it was his gaudy statistics/production that ultimately defined his greatness. RN has not shown that he's as good a defensive player as Barnett to this point imo....and he's not remotely in Reggie's stratosphere.

Look. You could be right about Nkemdiche. I have not watched him enough to know whether or not his statistical production is a valid measure of what he does for the Ole Miss defense.

All I know is that folks who know football still sing his praises. He still is projected to be a high NFL draft pick. He still was voted First Team All-SEC last year. And so on.

Maybe everyone else is wrong and you are right that Nkemdiche is overrated and a flop. I'm gonna just abstain from making a declaritive judgment on Nkemdiche simply because I haven't watched him play that often. I'm one of those guys who uses the eye test above all else. You seem to take box score production above all else. We'll just have to agree to disagree about what is most important in evaluating players.