All Time NBA Players Thread - No Jordan vs. Lebron Debate Allowed

#502
#502
Chauncey Billups - I think he's pretty over-appreciated. I think it's fine that he makes the HoF, but few players have 1 title doing more work for them than Chauncey's 2004 run.
Vince Carter - was must-see TV but didn't result in a lot of winning and the Toronto departure was an awful chapter. He also belongs in the HoF, of course.
Michael Cooper - one of the worst HoFers ever? Great defensive player. 1 DPOY, 8 all-defensive teams, and 5 titles...but he wasn't even a starter and only averaged 12, 4, and 5 per 36*. Also, I have avoided the details, but I hear the domestic violence with him was really bad.

In terms of player inductees, is this the worst class of HoFers ever?

*For reference, Draymond averages 11, 9, and 7, 1 fewer title, same defensive honors, but has 4 all-star appearances and 2x all-NBA honors, and we're (correctly) debating his HoF credentials. I assume he's adding all-defensive honors this year, too. Just seems like Cooper is one of those guys that will be mentioned when we talk about how low the bar is.
 
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#507
#507
If Jokic wins MVP and a second title we are having the top 15 all time talk
 
#508
#508
zjcvols said:
If Jokic wins MVP and a second title we are having the top 15 all time talk
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For sure. Just needs a little longevity. If he retired this summer, that might work against him too much. There are 1-title, 1 MVP guys that get top 15 talk.
 
#510
#510
Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo had a great convo yesterday about Lebron's place in Laker history and culture.

The interesting part was about Kobe and Lakers culture. Both hosts are outsiders in LA and they were talking about how half of Lakers fans are just Kobe fans. Russillo said he was at the beach during game 2 of the Nuggets series and there were Kobe jerseys everywhere. "That's the guy who wants to argue with you about Kobe being better than Lebron."

RR said he was talking to some guys at the gym after Lakers were sent home and he asks them "are you guys upset?" And it came off like they were a little giddy to say "Kobe would've never got swept."
 
#512
#512
n_huffhines said:
Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo had a great convo yesterday about Lebron's place in Laker history and culture.

The interesting part was about Kobe and Lakers culture. Both hosts are outsiders in LA and they were talking about how half of Lakers fans are just Kobe fans. Russillo said he was at the beach during game 2 of the Nuggets series and there were Kobe jerseys everywhere. "That's the guy who wants to argue with you about Kobe being better than Lebron."

RR said he was talking to some guys at the gym after Lakers were sent home and he asks them "are you guys upset?" And it came off like they were a little giddy to say "Kobe would've never got swept."
Click to expand...
Why do you think there is this obsession in the NBA of comparing guys from different eras, and specifically a need to definitively determine which player is better than the other? In other sports, fans seem to be OK with saying that you can't really tell if Player X was player than Player Y, for a variety of reasons, but they were both among the best players of their era and the conversation gets left at that.

It happens to a certain extent in every sport, but it seems to be a bigger deal in basketball. There isn't the same level of intensity surrounding the question "Was Barry Bonds a better hitter than Babe Ruth" in baseball than "Is LeBron better than MJ?"
 
#513
#513
05_never_again said:
Why do you think there is this obsession in the NBA of comparing guys from different eras, and specifically a need to definitively determine which player is better than the other? In other sports, fans seem to be OK with saying that you can't really tell if Player X was player than Player Y, for a variety of reasons, but they were both among the best players of their era and the conversation gets left at that.

It happens to a certain extent in every sport, but it seems to be a bigger deal in basketball. There isn't the same level of intensity surrounding the question "Was Barry Bonds a better hitter than Babe Ruth" in baseball than "Is LeBron better than MJ?"
Click to expand...

I think part of it is that high-profile athletes get people talking, and the NBA has the highest-profile athletes. I think that may be the entire basketball-related explanation.

I think other explanations are specific to Lebron and MJ....they get 70% of the eras talk and the reason there is so much of it is that it's actually a tight GOAT race and it's all recent history. Bonds vs. Ruth may be a a tight GOAT race, but one of them is ancient history. Manning vs. Brady is recent history, but not a tight race.

BTW, Kobe and Lebron were same era.
 
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