All Time NBA Players Thread - No Jordan vs. Lebron Debate Allowed

#426
#426
n_huffhines said:
Omg, this guy's hair (and the Pippen shot)

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The traveling callout is disingenuous. Traveling not an 80’s issue. Funny clip though.
 
#427
#427
95 Vol Alum said:
The traveling callout is disingenuous. Traveling not an 80’s issue. Funny clip though.
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Yeah, didn't care for that. LIke, do you watch now?

My whole life people have complained about travelling, too many fouls, no defense, so it's funny to hear that enter the inter-generational chat, like one era has a leg to stand on.
 
#428
#428
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, didn't care for that. LIke, do you watch now?

My whole life people have complained about travelling, too many fouls, no defense, so it's funny to hear that enter the inter-generational chat, like one era has a leg to stand on.
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I don't subscribe to one era being better than another. I believe, to a certain point, that great players would be great in any era (but I would love to see Shaq play today to confirm that).

Anecdotally though, the worst game I have attended in person was played in 1999 between the NYK and 76ers. Ewing, Houston, Iverson, Larry Johnson, Sprewell. Final score 72-67 Sixers.

www.basketball-reference.com

Knicks vs 76ers, April 19, 1999 | Basketball-Reference.com

NYK (67) vs PHI (72). Get the box score, shot charts and play by play summary of the Knicks vs 76ers, April 19, 1999.
www.basketball-reference.com www.basketball-reference.com

So bad.
 
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#430
#430
"Chris Paul would pass me the ball on the seams every time. If I miss left or right, it's usually when somebody sends me a pass where the seams aren't lined up. In 4 years, CP3 probably made 2 bad passes to me." - Redick
 
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#431
#431
n_huffhines said:
"Chris Paul would pass me the ball on the seams every time. If I miss left or right, it's usually when somebody sends me a pass where the seams aren't lined up. In 4 years, CP3 probably made 2 bad passes to me." - Redick
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"Championships — that's how we measure greatness overall," Jay Williams said.
 
#433
#433
TBrown said:
This is such an underrated facet of PG play and shooting.
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It's really amazing and incredibly difficult. I could pass a little, in high school, but I never thought about or even tried to get the seams right for a shooter or any pass I made. Never really even heard of it, but if it's true that kinda blows my mind
 
#435
#435
#437
#437
95 Vol Alum said:
"Championships — that's how we measure greatness overall," Jay Williams said.
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I think getting to and performing in the playoffs is important, though. For instance, if you look at playoff win shares, Barkley is 28th all time. Clearly in the "great" pool. But if you want to judge Sir Charles just based on titles you could say he wasn't great, but you'd look pretty dumb to anyone who actually saw him play.

Plus, championships are not only a function of a player's greatness, but also a function of both who they played with and against. Bird is 12th in playoff win shares, but his teammates McHale and Parrish are also top 50. He's not winning 3 titles without those guys
 
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#438
#438
Rifleman said:
I think getting to and performing in the playoffs is important, though. For instance, if you look at playoff win shares, Barkley is 28th all time. Clearly in the "great" pool. But if you want to judge Sir Charles just based on titles you could say he wasn't great, but you'd look pretty dumb to anyone who actually saw him play.

Plus, championships are not only a function of a player's greatness, but also a function of both who they played with and against. Bird is 12th in playoff win shares, but his teammates McHale and Parrish are also top 50. He's not winning 3 titles without those guys
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It's one of those things where if you don't have any titles, you rightly can't be in the GOAT convo. As good as Barkley was, and he's my favorite player all time, he's not in the GOAT convo. But he also shouldn't be mocked for not winning a title. He went toe-to-toe with MJ better than anybody did in a finals, and he played well enough to win a title...he just had the misfortune of playing for a team that ran into MJ with nobody who could guard him.
 
#439
#439
Rifleman said:
I think getting to and performing in the playoffs is important, though. For instance, if you look at playoff win shares, Barkley is 28th all time. Clearly in the "great" pool. But if you want to judge Sir Charles just based on titles you could say he wasn't great, but you'd look pretty dumb to anyone who actually saw him play.

Plus, championships are not only a function of a player's greatness, but also a function of both who they played with and against. Bird is 12th in playoff win shares, but his teammates McHale and Parrish are also top 50. He's not winning 3 titles without those guys
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As a Lakers fan since mid 70's I would say the same about Magic.
Without Kareem, Worthy, Scott , Nixon , Cooper he wouldn't have won as much either.
 
#442
#442
I thought getting rid of old guys and replacing them with younger officials would fix it. And it’s worked in some instances (MLB for example shows younger umpires are better). But these young officials are feckless, spineless cowards. I don’t know what the fix is anymore. And even coaches are tired of it
 
#443
#443
zjcvols said:
I thought getting rid of old guys and replacing them with younger officials would fix it. And it’s worked in some instances (MLB for example shows younger umpires are better). But these young officials are feckless, spineless cowards. I don’t know what the fix is anymore. And even coaches are tired of it
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The Paolo travel was an egregious miss, but I'm giving the refs the benefit of the doubt tonight. Multiple replays and I can't tell if Thompson had possession or not. It looks the ball gets away from him, maybe DD gets ball and then they collide. The right angle can probably tell the tale. I would guess foul. But IDK
 
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#444
#444
knoxvol52 said:
As a Lakers fan since mid 70's I would say the same about Magic.
Without Kareem, Worthy, Scott , Nixon , Cooper he wouldn't have won as much either.
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I think Magic is one of the few players so good that he would have won at least one title no matter where he went, though. Then he went to the single most dominant team of modern era. Celtics turned '84 into a wrestling match and got away with it or he'd be sitting on 6 titles. Without the health scare, probably more.

Also, clearly in that category: Lebron, MJ, Duncan, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Russell

Probably: Wilt, Durant, Bird, Kawhi, Hakeem, Curry, Wade
 
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#445
#445
Rifleman said:
I think Magic is one of the few players so good that he would have won at least one title no matter where he went, though. Then he went to the single most dominant team of modern era. Celtics turned '84 into a wrestling match and got away with it or he'd be sitting on 6 titles. Without the health scare, probably more.

Also, clearly in that category: Lebron, MJ, Duncan, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Russell

Probably: Wilt, Durant, Bird, Kawhi, Hakeem, Curry, Wade
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In his era, yeah. Not sure about now. I believe the league is much stronger, and I am not sure his talent translates. If he were a good shooter, then I'd have no doubt. The fact that he's not a proven shooter and didn't play hard on D makes me skeptical. Same goes for a lot of those guys. Curry's definitely not winning anything before the 3p line, and no matter what era he's in, he's going to need a coach to green-light his shooting. Not sure Shaq could win a title now. Does his body hold up long enough to get to a title in the modern NBA? I think Duncan wins a title now, but not sure. Not sure on Kobe, either. Efficiency matters too much. Would he adjust or just go hero ball all the time, still? That's kinda how Kawhi won in Toronto, so it can happen, but it's tough.

MJ and Lebron are the only ones there where I think they would be in the GOAT convo in any decade of the modern era.
 
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#448
#448
It is pretty stupid to say championships determine the college GOAT. It's a 6-round single-elimination tournament. This isn't Michael Jordan stopping teams from beating him 4 out of 7 (and having 10-12 chances at a title run). Your team gets in foul trouble for one game and you're done for the year, and you only have a few years.
 
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#449
#449
Jay's Duke team without him is still contending to make a Final 4.

Caitlin's Iowa team is contending to make the WNIT without her....

You have to go back to Swoopes to see one player carry a team like this....
 
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#450
#450
Winning championships is a team achievement; that's such an obvious point but I think one people (like Jason Williams) lose sight of. If a player routinely has large differences between regular season and playoff performance, then that is something worth pointing out. But any kind of comment like "they aren't a great player because they haven't won a title" is just absurd, whether talking college or pro.
 
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