All-Time Defensive Team

#26
#26
If memory serves me well, Kobe played some great d in the finals on Reggie Miller.
 
#27
#27
I think if I was an NBA player, I would have hated to guard Reg and Rip. Chasing a guy that never tires around 50 screens is a *****. I always preferred to guard a more physical guy, it was a 100 times easier.
 
#28
#28
n_huffhines said:
Bowen did a great job against wings that weren't physically imposing and played iso offense. I don't recall him doing very well against bigger SF. That's why K Leonard is so awesome. He's every bit as good a wing defender, he's more physical, and he plays good help D. He's twice the defender Bowen was, IMO.

Interesting factoid, I believe Bowen said Ray Allen was his toughest mark.
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What bigger wings do you remember Bowen not playing well against? Kawhi has 30 lbs on Bruce of course he is going to be more physical. It's apples to oranges really, they are different types of defenders. Bruce was the equivalent of a lockdown corner. Pops said basically, "you have this guy, we are not going to help on him...go"

And yes Ray is a mark.
 
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#29
#29
BadJerry20 said:
What bigger wings do you remember Bowen not playing well against? Kawhi has 30 lbs on Bruce of course he is going to be more physical. It's apples to oranges really, they are different types of defenders. Bruce was the equivalent of a lockdown corner. Pops said basically, "you have this guy, we are not going to help on him...go"

And yes Ray is a mark.
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That's part of my point. 185 lbs is not big enough to adequately guard a lot of 3s. Basketball-Reference has Kawhi at 225. Hell, Pippen was pretty skinny and he was 210.

It wasn't that easy for a bigger SF to torch Bowen because he had bigs to help pick up the slack, but it seems like Shawn Marion used to be impossible for him, one on one.
 
#30
#30
This doesn't entirely validate what I'm saying, because you don't know exactly how much Bowen was guarding Marion, but in 2007 Marion was the Suns' starting SF and they played the Spurs 9 times. Marion averaged 15 and 11 and on top of that, shot over 50% in 6 of the games. 15 isn't a lot, but Marion only averaged 17 that year. 2 points isn't much of a difference. Again, not conclusive, but it doesn't seem like Bowen was able to slow him down, and Marion was able to dominate the glass from the 3 position.
 
#31
#31
I get what you are saying. Not trying to sound like a ****. But picking one guy in one year, out of 13 NBA seasons doesn't even kind of sort of validate anything. Especially when we don't even know if he was even guarding him. Diaw was 215 at the time so there is a chance he was guarding him.
 
#33
#33
Basketball Reference has Amare listed as C and Diaw as PF. FWIW. Diaw averaged 4.3 RPG so he obviously wasn't banging inside, I thought he was used as a point forward. Let's be honest though teams don't always just match up position vs position. Kawhi guarded LBJ who technically played PF last year. Not saying he didn't guard Marion just saying we really have no clue. Btw Marion was a great defender in his prime as well.
 
#34
#34
Marion is such an underrated player. Great defense, rebounding, and very good offense. He was extremely efficient and scored a decent amount. He had a 3-year run between '05-'07 where I would have put him top 10 players in the league. His versatility was crucial to D' Antoni's system.
 
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#35
#35
I agree 100% with everything you said, I loved his game and watching him play. I've always felt he was horribly underrated (similar to Iggy), probably because he didn't score a ton.
 
#36
#36
He had a season where he did 22 and 12, shot like .590 TS% and had more steals (2.0) and blocks (1.7) than turnovers (1.5).

That may be one of the best 10 seasons of my lifetime.
 
#37
#37
n_huffhines said:
He had a season where he did 22 and 12, shot like .590 TS% and had more steals (2.0) and blocks (1.7) than turnovers (1.5).

That may be one of the best 10 seasons of my lifetime.
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Speaking of stats, I'm still convinced Oscar Robertson was the greatest of all time.
 
#39
#39
n_huffhines said:
He had a season where he did 22 and 12, shot like .590 TS% and had more steals (2.0) and blocks (1.7) than turnovers (1.5).

That may be one of the best 10 seasons of my lifetime.
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I love me some Marion, but MJ and LBJ have 10 combined better seasons. If only because Marion was a bad passer. He only had 1.5 tpg but he also only had 1.8 apg.

The real question is, how did he ever make a jumpshot? Lol
 
#42
#42
BadJerry20 said:
I love me some Marion, but MJ and LBJ have 10 combined better seasons. If only because Marion was a bad passer. He only had 1.5 tpg but he also only had 1.8 apg.

The real question is, how did he ever make a jumpshot? Lol
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Not a great passer, but I wouldn't call him bad. The ball didn't go through him a ton in the half-court, and his role was to hit the defensive glass while Stoudemire was supposed to opportunistically streak when a shot went up. Marion was cleaning up the boards short-handed and zipping the ball out to Nash who racked up the assists. Marion got involved on the finishing side of fast breaks either by steals or as the trailer.

I would say he wasn't an impact passer, but when you have so few turnovers and you handle the ball that much, you can't be considered "bad", IMO.
 
#43
#43
He NEVER in a 17 year career averaged 3 apg, and for his career averaged 1.9 apg vs 1.6 topg. Any way you slice it, that's bad. And I say that as a Marion fan. Numbers never lie but your eyes do remember? :) He was solid in almost every aspect of the game, except passing and outside shooting.
 
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#44
#44
I will say this might be the most civilized sports debate we have ever had. One of us needs to throw a sewing machine.
 
#48
#48
BadJerry20 said:
He NEVER in a 17 year career averaged 3 apg, and for his career averaged 1.9 apg vs 1.6 topg. Any way you slice it, that's bad. And I say that as a Marion fan. Numbers never lie but your eyes do remember? :) He was solid in almost every aspect of the game, except passing and outside shooting.

I do find it amusing that passing wasn't in his "role" so low assits are ok. But Bruce was a terrible rebounder, even though his role wasn't to crash the boards, it was guard the best perimeter wing and shoot 3's. Not exactly conducive for getting rebounds.
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Not sure what this means?

Does Kawhi Leonard not play the exact same position in the exact same system and get more than twice as many rebounds as Bowen? You don't need your PF to get assists. You need your SF to rebound.

BTW, the average PF gets 2.2 assists per 36, and Marion has averaged 2.0 per 36. The average PF has a 1:1 ratio, and Marion 1.2:1. Average SF does 2.7 assists per 36 and 1.3:1, so I would say all things considered he's pretty average for a F tweener.
 
#50
#50
n_huffhines said:
Not sure what this means?

Does Kawhi Leonard not play the exact same position in the exact same system and get more than twice as many rebounds as Bowen? You don't need your PF to get assists. You need your SF to rebound.

BTW, the average PF gets 2.2 assists per 36, and Marion has averaged 2.0 per 36. The average PF has a 1:1 ratio, and Marion 1.2:1. Average SF does 2.7 assists per 36 and 1.3:1, so I would say all things considered he's pretty average for a F tweener.
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Bruce's 3 rings say you don't need your SF to rebound.
 
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