Ukraine II: The Fight Against Russian Aggression

#3,951
#3,951
Burhead said:
News is coming out this morning that Putin is now considering issuing Russian passports to all of Ukraine not just the occupied territories. This isn’t good folks, more creeping annexation.
Click to expand...
And again... if the choose to get Russian passports, how can you even fix your mouth to suggest that this is annexation or an invasion or a conquest when the people are choosing to move closer to Russia?
Please explain to me how this wouldn't be nothing more than the people voting with their feet?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pacer92
#3,954
#3,954
Burhead said:
News is coming out this morning that Putin is now considering issuing Russian passports to all of Ukraine not just the occupied territories. This isn’t good folks, more creeping annexation.
Click to expand...

How did you calculate all that to equal more creeping annexation?!
 
#3,955
#3,955
Rasputin_Vol said:
And again... if the choose to get Russian passports, how can you even fix your mouth to suggest that this is annexation or an invasion or a conquest when the people are choosing to move closer to Russia?
Please explain to me how this wouldn't be nothing more than the people voting with their feet?
Click to expand...

It gives Russia the pretext to further invade Ukraine to “protect Russian citizens”. Same way it was used against Georgia.

Rasputin_Vol said:
Ukraine is as much a part of Russia as Crimea is. So why move?
Click to expand...

You just don’t get it.

Pacer92 said:
How did you calculate all that to equal more creeping annexation?!
Click to expand...

Putin is using citizenship/passport as weapons. He did it against Georgia and now Ukraine. Him giving people passports can be used as a way to involve themselves in the affairs of sovereign countries to protect “Russian citizens”. What’s to stop him from doing this in say the Baltic’s where there are sizable Russian minorities to stir up unrest in NATO countries?
 
#3,956
#3,956
Rasputin_Vol said:
Ukraine is as much a part of Russia as Crimea is. So why move?
Click to expand...
That's not how nations work.


Burhead said:
Putin is using citizenship/passport as weapons. He did it against Georgia and now Ukraine. Him giving people passports can be used as a way to involve themselves in the affairs of sovereign countries to protect “Russian citizens”. What’s to stop him from doing this in say the Baltic’s where there are sizable Russian minorities to stir up unrest in NATO countries?
Click to expand...

Yes. From the link above:

In 2002, the Kremlin began granting Russian citizenship to residents of Georgia’s breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. That policy that helped raise the number of Russian passport holders there from about 20 percent to more than 85 percent of the population.

Then, when Russia went to war against Georgia in August 2008, the Kremlin justified its deployment of Russian military forces in Abkhazia and South Ossetia by saying those forces were needed to protect Russia citizens in the separatist regions.
Click to expand...
 
#3,957
#3,957
Burhead said:
It gives Russia the pretext to further invade Ukraine to “protect Russian citizens”. Same way it was used against Georgia.



You just don’t get it.



Putin is using citizenship/passport as weapons. He did it against Georgia and now Ukraine. Him giving people passports can be used as a way to involve themselves in the affairs of sovereign countries to protect “Russian citizens”. What’s to stop him from doing this in say the Baltic’s where there are sizable Russian minorities to stir up unrest in NATO countries?
Click to expand...
Is he putting a gun to people's heads or threatening them with a trip to Siberia if they don't take a Russian passport?
 
#3,958
#3,958
What is wrong with Russia offering citizenship or citizenship privileges?

If there are enough people that take the offer, then that might punch holes in the Russian invasion/annexation narrative.
 
#3,961
#3,961
Velo Vol said:
Would you be fine if parts of the SW U.S. wanted to break away and become Mexico?
Click to expand...
See I knew this would come up, and it is totally different.

If Mexico offered citizenship to those residents, how many would accept it? How many of the people living there are already citizens of Mexico? If 85-90% of people there accept Mexican citizenship, them that tells you all you need to know. But you and I both know that if that were to occur right now, the only people that would accept the offer would be people that are already Mexican citizens (illegal aliens), not too many native born Americans would take the offer.
 
#3,964
#3,964
Velo Vol said:
I know it's different but I'm trying to determine whether you're generally OK with countries taking territory from other ones or if this is just a Russia thing.
Click to expand...
Russia isn't taking anything. The people are choosing Russia.

The West has been getting outmaneuvered by Putin time and time again. The West is the one that brought Ukraine on the verge of being a failed state with their US State Dept/CIA coup of Yanukovich in 2014. Putin has now countered the West with the anti-Berlin Wall. Instead of building a wall to keep people trapped in a communist state, he's opening the flood gates for anyone in Ukraine to join Russia.
 
#3,966
#3,966
Rasputin_Vol said:
Russia isn't taking anything. The people are choosing Russia.

The West has been getting outmaneuvered by Putin time and time again. The West is the one that brought Ukraine on the verge of being a failed state with their US State Dept/CIA coup of Yanukovich in 2014. Putin has now countered the West with the anti-Berlin Wall. Instead of building a wall to keep people trapped in a communist state, he's opening the flood gates for anyone in Ukraine to join Russia.
Click to expand...

You join Russia by moving there.
 
#3,967
#3,967
Interesting bit (for a layperson like me) in the full segment on the submarine tracking they're doing around Norway.

 
Last edited:
#3,968
#3,968
Rasputin_Vol said:
See I knew this would come up, and it is totally different.

If Mexico offered citizenship to those residents, how many would accept it? How many of the people living there are already citizens of Mexico? If 85-90% of people there accept Mexican citizenship, them that tells you all you need to know. But you and I both know that if that were to occur right now, the only people that would accept the offer would be people that are already Mexican citizens (illegal aliens), not too many native born Americans would take the offer.
Click to expand...
No it isn’t Ras put your Russian Red glasses away. Disingenuously dismissing a citizenship offer doesn’t disarm the political motivations behind it. Both would be wrong. Russia just might succeed where Mexico never would.
 
#3,969
#3,969
NorthDallas40 said:
No it isn’t Ras put your Russian Red glasses away. Disingenuously dismissing a citizenship offer doesn’t disarm the political motivations behind it. Both would be wrong. Russia just might succeed where Mexico never would.
Click to expand...
Ask yourself this.... why would Putin offer citizenship unless he knew that it would be a popular move in Ukraine?

If the concern was that Putin would only get a minuscule number of people to jump on the offer, this would be a non-issue.
 
#3,970
#3,970
Rasputin_Vol said:
Ask yourself this.... why would Putin offer citizenship unless he knew that it would be a popular move in Ukraine?

If the concern was that Putin would only get a minuscule number of people to jump on the offer, this would be a non-issue.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t mean it’s the right action Ras.
 
#3,971
#3,971
Rasputin_Vol said:
Ask yourself this.... why would Putin offer citizenship unless he knew that it would be a popular move in Ukraine?

If the concern was that Putin would only get a minuscule number of people to jump on the offer, this would be a non-issue.
Click to expand...

Is it Russian citizenship in addition to, or in lieu of, Ukrainian citizenship? I think if the UK or an EU nation said I could have their citizenship in addition to US citizenship, I'd take it. Better to have options. But if I had to give up US citizenship I wouldn't do it.
 
#3,973
#3,973
Rasputin_Vol said:
Ask yourself this.... why would Putin offer citizenship unless he knew that it would be a popular move in Ukraine?

If the concern was that Putin would only get a minuscule number of people to jump on the offer, this would be a non-issue.
Click to expand...
Dissent. Weakening an enemy. Rebuilding the USSR. Things he has done before
 
#3,974
#3,974
LouderVol said:
Dissent. Weakening an enemy. Rebuilding the USSR. Things he has done before
Click to expand...
Yep. First he gets a large “Russian citizen” population living in various areas of the Ukraine. Then he moves to “protect Russian citizens” and stabilize the region. After all... he’s only acting in the best interests of his constituents. Annexation without firing a shot. But we know they’ll fire shots too.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top