Win/ Loss comparison

#226
#226
jakez4ut said:
it's probably good that i'm not in charge.:)

all things being equal, it wouldn't have been smart.

lame duck ad, new chancellor etc...instability administratively certainly played a factor. had we been more stable at the top, i'm not certain that he wouldn't have been fired last year. speculation on my part.

anywho, as i said....looking forward.
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That was huge. Disappointed as I was, I did not want Dave Hart hiring the next guy. The fact that there was no extension despite beating UF and UGA told me all I needed to know.
 
#228
#228
05_never_again said:
"I think he's a decent coach, but perhaps not championship-level" Butch
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2016 showed me all that I really needed to see.

With the talent we had, and the state of the SECe, a middle-of-the-road or better SEC-caliber coach wins the division, with a 6-2 or better record.

If we had an AD who wasn't retiring at the time, who knows what might have happened.
 
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#229
#229
I'm pretty sure My attitude would have been different if the AD situation hadn't been what it was, but I don't know. What I do know is this. It is what it is now, and we are 0-0 just like everyone else. Plus we can continue to build on our momentum from contending for championships.
 
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#230
#230
Behr said:
I'm pretty sure My attitude would have been different if the AD situation hadn't been what it was, but I don't know. What I do know is this. It is what it is now, and we are 0-0 just like everyone else. Plus we can continue to build on our momentum from contending for championships.
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:eek:lol:
lol. well done.
 
#233
#233
BeardedVol said:
2016 showed me all that I really needed to see.

With the talent we had, and the state of the SECe, a middle-of-the-road or better SEC-caliber coach wins the division, with a 6-2 or better record.

If we had an AD who wasn't retiring at the time, who knows what might have happened.
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Yep. And the really disappointing part is that it wasn't losses against the usual suspects (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama) that cost him his chance. In fact he beat 2 of those 3 teams.

Once we ran the gauntlet, our toughest games remaining were road trips to South Carolina and Vandy, and he lost both games.
 
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#234
#234
Man I wish Shoop would have had one of his top 10 defenses last year. Amazing how different the conversations would have been.
 
#235
#235
05_never_again said:
Fairly accurate, but I actually think Butch is a better head coach than Mike Shula. Only one winning season in 4 tries, and most of the wins were taken away via sanctions
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Shula took over a team that had gone 17-8 the previous two years - 10-2 the previous year. Shula inherited a roster with 13 future NFL draft picks. Compare that to what Butch got - a team that went 10-14 over the previous two seasons and had only 3 future NFL draft picks.

Don't get me wrong - I loved and deeply miss Coach Shula.
 
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#236
#236
Behr said:
Can't mention Butch being better than Dooley, injuries, bowl wins....

Must mention Butch's 4-4 SEC record, lost to SC and Vandy in every damn thread.....

Wait for it....lol.
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Kinda funny how that works.
 
#237
#237
BeardedVol said:
In modern college football, non-CFP bowl wins are meaningless for anything except padding the W/L records of underperforming coaches.

Fulmer Overall Regular Season 05-08: 28-20
Fulmer SEC 05-08:17-15

CBJ Overall Regular Season 13-16:27-21
CBJ SEC 13-16:14-18

Fulmer wasn't let go for losing bowl games, or losing regular season OOC games, but rather for his flagging SEC record, which is still higher than CBJ's.

CBJ has leveled off in his SEC record at a point that is still worse than Fulmer's record, that saw him terminated as head coach.
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Fulmer got fired for 2 losing season in his lsat 4 years, something Butch hasn't done. Fulmer was on the downhill, Butch is on an uphill!!!

NegaVols only use stats that they want to prove their bias point.

Butch has still one 1 more game in his first 4 years than Fulmer did. Facts are Facts!!!
:)
 
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#238
#238
BeecherVol said:
So he overachieved by going 3-2 against the doormats of the division and Tech.

The bar be low for you.
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The comment was made that he did that record with the best team he has had to date, but he only fielded the best team he has had to date for about 6 games where he was 5-1.

So it wasn't a justification to the record it was a correction to the crap people are spitting about it being the best team he has had, with the injuries he only fielded that team about 6 games.

The injuries are a completely different issue that falls on Butch Jones but to say that he lost the division with the best team he has fielded is absolutely false!!!:)

That was my comment not that the record was justified at all!!!
 
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#239
#239
Vol_guy said:
What do you think about butch's record compared to the last 8 seasons?
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Why would we compare against abject failure and say it is "OK" if someone still fails... but is better than the others that failed?

For me, the standard is winning. Winning games. Winning championships. Being better than Dooley, Kiffin, and Fulmer at the end is a given. You have to get there to become a champion. But it doesn't stop there.

Basically, I think you ask the wrong question.
 
#240
#240
In the 8 years prior to those 8, Fulmer went 15-9 against those teams with a couple of 3-0 seasons. That's a much better standard to compare to.
 
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#241
#241
johnrlansford said:
The comment was made that he did that record with the best team he has had to date, but he only fielded the best team he has had to date for about 6 games where he was 5-1.

So it wasn't a justification to the record it was a correction to the crap people are spitting about it being the best team he has had, with the injuries he only fielded that team about 6 games.

The injuries are a completely different issue that falls on Butch Jones but to say that he lost the division with the best team he has fielded is absolutely false!!!:)

That was my comment not that the record was justified at all!!!
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His last 2 Ls he fielded a better roster than either of the teams he lost to, regardless of the injuries.

He wins those and you have an argument for "overachieving".
 
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#242
#242
Sarms58 said:
I'm neither for Butch nor against him; I'm for the Vols to win titles and if he gets us there that is great, if not then we will need to find someone else...but I do think that unless the wheels come all the way of this year, he has through the 2018 season to get to Atlanta...
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UT should be winning titles, no question. It's important to remember that only 9 teams have won a national championship since we last won one. (10 if you count the one USC vacated). Tennessee is still an Elite program in terms of fan base, facilities, and tradition, and it is far past time we returned to being one in the wins column.

As much money and support as Tennessee football has, nine win seasons should absolutely be a let down. If Butch can't progress past here with recruiting, coaching ability, and staff management, then he isn't the right guy. I agree that he has through next season at a minimum, and honestly, I think he deserves that. He plays one of the hardest schedules in the nation every year. He has one of the lowest talent pool states as his home state to recruit from. It's not an easy job, but, it is the job he was hired to do. If it is too much for him, it's time to move on. If he continues to show progress each year, which I think he has, it's his job to lose.

I actually see last season the opposite of some. Even though this is in reverse order chronologically, I think the losses to Vandy and SC were where he lost the job, but the wins against Florida and at UGA where were he earned it back. There will never be an excuse for losing to those two schools, and any coach that loses to both in one year probably deserves to be canned. However, we beat Florida and Georgia in the same year for the first time in recent memory, Neyland stadium came back alive as "our house" last year......you can't can the coach that does that for you.

The last two season, a couple of breaks go the other way for CBJ, and we aren't even close to having this discussion. He is right on the edge of being the right guy, we need another season or two to see if that is all he has, or if he is going to become a UT legend.
 
#243
#243
BeecherVol said:
His last 2 Ls he fielded a better roster than either of the teams he lost to, regardless of the injuries.

He wins those and you have an argument for "overachieving".
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If the teams were better than the ones he lost too that isn't "Overachieving"? :)
 
#244
#244
Vol_guy said:
Phillip Fulmer (2005-2008)



2005: 5–6 (3–5 SEC) 0-3 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)

2006: 9–4 (5–3 SEC) 2-1 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)

2007: 10–4 (6–2 SEC) 1-2 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)

2008: 5–7 (3–5 SEC) 0-3 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)



Lane Kiffin & Derek Dooley (2009-2012)



2009: 7–6 (4–4 SEC) 1-2 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)

2010: 6–7 (3–5 SEC) 0-3 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)

2011: 5–7 (1–7 SEC) 0-3 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)

2012: 5–7 (1–7 SEC) 0-3 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)



Butch Jones (2013-2016)



2013: 5–7 (2–6 SEC) 0-3 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)

2014: 7–6 (3–5 SEC) 0-3 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)

2015: 9–4 (5–3 SEC) 1-2 against (Florida, Georgia, and Alabama)

2016: 9–4 (4–4 SEC) 2-1 against (Florida, Georgia, Alabama)
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:dunno: :hmm: :dry:

OK, Thanks for the summary?
 
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