Win/ Loss comparison

#176
#176
(2) Plus, Butch's trend is steadily upward, while Phil's last year was a dive below .500.

There was no improvement last year. We will learn a lot about Butch this year. We were carried by offense last year, to compete at close to the same level this season our defense will need to be superb.
 
#177
#177
KB5252 said:
(2) Plus, Butch's trend is steadily upward, while Phil's last year was a dive below .500.

There was no improvement last year. We will learn a lot about Butch this year. We were carried by offense last year, to compete at close to the same level this season our defense will need to be superb.
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Do a linear regression on the 5+7+9+9 curve, tell me how it slopes, brother.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you, USCe-Vandy, pain, despair, gloom, agony. And yet, Florida. Georgia. Bristol. Last year didn't totally suck. Chaotic all season long, nerve-wracking many games, sure. But you don't go 9-4 without some good news.

VolNation's problem is, partially, that we're roughly 50% a bunch of friggin' Eeyores. But our other problem is short-memoryitis. All the great news came early, while the two really bad bits of news came late in the season.

Nonetheless, there was good in '16. There was progress, alongside the pain.
 
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#178
#178
VFL-82-JP said:
Do a linear regression on the 5+7+9+9 curve, tell me how it slopes, brother.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you, USCe-Vandy, pain, despair, gloom, agony. And yet, Florida. Georgia. Bristol. Last year didn't totally suck. Chaotic all season long, nerve-wracking many games, sure. But you don't go 9-4 without some good news.

VolNation's problem is, partially, that we're roughly 50% a bunch of friggin' Eeyores. But our other problem is short-memoryitis. All the great news came early, while the two really bad bits of news came late in the season.

Nonetheless, there was good in '16. There was progress, alongside the pain.
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I would argue there was no progress over the year prior. I would also argue there was potential that was not realized. There was some highs but the lows were just as low as the highs were high. It is what it is, as I said before this year will tell us a lot. This division has been ripe for a few years now, we just haven't been able to take the next step.
 
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#181
#181
To progress. He stalled out last year with his best team finishing the season with the same record as 15' (his second best team)

No reason to call it any different. He didn't get fired for it and gets to prove this year that the stall was short lived.
 
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#184
#184
johnrlansford said:
So shouldn't Fulmer's last years be his best teams as far as staff, recruiting, etc?

I agree Fulmer went down hill the last couple of years he was here but that isn't Butch Jones fault now is it?

Butch has the program going in the direction it needs to be going since Fulmer left, this will be the year that decides if he can get us over the hump or not. But i still believe he makes it until 2018 minimum pending a bowl game.

Go Vols!!!:)
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Jones is our version of Bama's Mike Shula.

Brought Bama out of the dump, had a good year or two but just wasn't going to bring them to elite status.
 
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#185
#185
BeardedVol said:
Why is that?

Why? Because the longer a coach is somewhere they have a great foundation. Fulmer was no different, his last years should have been laded with talent and he should have been able to attract the highest level coaches to Tennessee. He let his foot off the peddle and put us in autodrive which cost him his job!!!


Did I blame Butch anywhere in my post? We fired Fulmer for his record those last 4 years, yet CBJ is going into his fifth, with a worse record over 4 years than Fulmer in those 4 years that resulted in his firing.
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Actually you are wrong!!!:)
Butch is 30-21 in the first 4 seasons at Tennessee
Fulmer 29-21 in his last 4 seasons at Tennessee

Butch is 1 game better and 3 consecutive Bowl wins!
Butch also didn't have the luxury of the Tennessee that Fulmer had prior to those final 4 years.

Butch is building Tennessee up, Fulmer was driving Tennessee down!!! There is a big difference!!!:)
 
#187
#187
BeecherVol said:
To progress. He stalled out last year with his best team finishing the season with the same record as 15' (his second best team)

No reason to call it any different. He didn't get fired for it and gets to prove this year that the stall was short lived.
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With the team he actually fielded I would say that he over achieved! We only fielded the best team he has had for about half of the games last season and we started 5-1 so your theory isn't every solid!!!:)
 
#188
#188
VolunteerHillbilly said:
What we have is not meeting the goal that most of us would like to see met, which is getting back to 90s-level success. If the goal is to be met, change must occur. You may not see it yet but you will. I will be there to tell you 'I told you so' but only once because I will have earned it after enduring the ad hominem attacks and banal insults for refusing to see the emperor's new clothes and insisting on calling a spade a spade. We'll all be on the same page soon enough. Go Vols!
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I'm sure you don't care, but just so there is no misunderstanding. My post above wasn't meant as an attack on you in any way. I remember your comment several months ago, give or take, about you not being affiliated in any way to the University of Tennessee and you cared nothing about anything but winning. I'm the same with other sports teams so I understand that and respect your honesty even though I don't feel that way about Tennessee.

Tifwiw.
 
#190
#190
johnrlansford said:
Actually you are wrong!!!:)
Butch is 30-21 in the first 4 seasons at Tennessee
Fulmer 29-21 in his last 4 seasons at Tennessee

Butch is 1 game better and 3 consecutive Bowl wins!
Butch also didn't have the luxury of the Tennessee that Fulmer had prior to those final 4 years.

Butch is building Tennessee up, Fulmer was driving Tennessee down!!! There is a big difference!!!:)
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In modern college football, non-CFP bowl wins are meaningless for anything except padding the W/L records of underperforming coaches.

Fulmer Overall Regular Season 05-08: 28-20
Fulmer SEC 05-08:17-15

CBJ Overall Regular Season 13-16:27-21
CBJ SEC 13-16:14-18

Fulmer wasn't let go for losing bowl games, or losing regular season OOC games, but rather for his flagging SEC record, which is still higher than CBJ's.

CBJ has leveled off in his SEC record at a point that is still worse than Fulmer's record, that saw him terminated as head coach.
 
#192
#192
BeardedVol said:
In modern college football, non-CFP bowl wins are meaningless for anything except padding the W/L records of underperforming coaches.

Fulmer Overall Regular Season 05-08: 28-20
Fulmer SEC 05-08:17-15

CBJ Overall Regular Season 13-16:27-21
CBJ SEC 13-16:14-18

Fulmer wasn't let go for losing bowl games, or losing regular season OOC games, but rather for his flagging SEC record, which is still higher than CBJ's.

CBJ has leveled off in his SEC record at a point that is still worse than Fulmer's record, that saw him terminated as head coach.
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while i've gotten past the Dooley bar being used to judge CBJ, when you make statements like that, there's a distinctive difference between CBJ and CPF...

CBJ's current record is coming off one of the worst eras of TN football, while Fulmer's was coming off one of the best. and Fulmer was responsible for both, the rise and the fall. CBJ wasn't responsible for fall preceding him, only the renovation project he inherited.

now, is it renovated as far as he can take it? that's a different topic. this may be the pinnacle under CBJ, and that's not going to be good enough.

not sure why it's ban worthy to say he's better than dooley, but not to say he's worse that the worst phil fulmer.:blink:

the only thing that matters is what he does now, it's his program, and what happened 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, just isn't relevant. he's been here long enough that his program can be judged on his performance alone. he either gets it done or he doesn't.
 
#193
#193
jakez4ut said:
while i've gotten past the Dooley bar being used to judge CBJ, when you make statements like that, there's a distinctive difference between CBJ and CPF...

CBJ's current record is coming off one of the worst eras of TN football, while Fulmer's was coming off one of the best. and Fulmer was responsible for both, the rise and the fall. CBJ wasn't responsible for fall preceding him, only the renovation project he inherited.

now, is it renovated as far as he can take it? that's a different topic. this may be the pinnacle under CBJ, and that's not going to be good enough.

not sure why it's ban worthy to say he's better than dooley, but not to say he's worse that the worst phil fulmer.:blink:

the only thing that matters is what he does now, it's his program, and what happened 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, just isn't relevant. he's been here long enough that his program can be judged on his performance alone. he either gets it done or he doesn't.
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OP brought in the Fulmer comparison...

Your statement would have more weight if after 4 years of recruiting, CBJ had produced better than a 4-4 SEC record. You can go into the weeds all day long on how injuries, Hurd-drama, etc. contributed, but at the end of the day CBJ is the head coach, and 2016 was a team of his recruits, coached by the assistants he hired. That 4-4 record is his to own now.
 
#194
#194
Can't mention Butch being better than Dooley, injuries, bowl wins....

Must mention Butch's 4-4 SEC record, lost to SC and Vandy in every damn thread.....

Wait for it....lol.
 
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#195
#195
BeardedVol said:
OP brought in the Fulmer comparison...

Your statement would have more weight if after 4 years of recruiting, CBJ had produced better than a 4-4 SEC record. You can go into the weeds all day long on how injuries, Hurd-drama, etc. contributed, but at the end of the day CBJ is the head coach, and 2016 was a team of his recruits, coached by the assistants he hired. That 4-4 record is his to own now.
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it's not exactly uncommon knowledge what his SEC record is, not sure what else you need to get out of posting it all the time.

what weeds did i get in to? i didn't bring any of that up.

just don't get the harping on it at this point. none of this matters now. and it sure won't matter if it doesn't improve.
 
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#196
#196
While CBJ is head coach Derek Dooley and 'bowl wins' are somehow more relevant to the 2016 SEC record, than the 2016 losses to USCe and Vandy.:crazy:

I wonder if this bizarre trend will continue after CBJ's tenure...:dunno:
 
#197
#197
I just don't understand why everything can't be discussed logically without all the stupid crap.
 
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#199
#199
jakez4ut said:
it's not exactly uncommon knowledge what his SEC record is, not sure what else you need to get out of posting it all the time.

what weeds did i get in to? i didn't bring any of that up.

just don't get the harping on it at this point. none of this matters now. and it sure won't matter if it doesn't improve.
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Well, I guess it will stop being brought up when/if he improves upon it.

Maybe at that time people will stop blaming Dooley for CBJ's shortcomings, and stop trying to compare him to Dabo Swinney and Nick Saban. Probably not, but we can both hope and dream right? :good!:
 
#200
#200
johnrlansford said:
With the team he actually fielded I would say that he over achieved! We only fielded the best team he has had for about half of the games last season and we started 5-1 so your theory isn't every solid!!!:)
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So he overachieved by going 3-2 against the doormats of the division and Tech.

The bar be low for you.
 
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