Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#226
#226
WiseOlVol said:
Yes. Next QB is 5 -- Unitas and Luckman.
Brady at 3 (and finished there) has the most of active QBs.
Manning's 7 is untouchable.
FYI, at 7-3, Graham has a better Championship Record than Brady.
So does Bart Starr: 5-1.
Leaves Brady without much by way of individual achievements.
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Not hardly, sir. You need to guess again.... Graham NEVER played in a SB....his seasons ended with NFL championships, which, as I said before, are equivalent to the AFC/NFC Championships in today's game. Brady's record in those games is essentially equal to Graham's.

Otto Graham played on a team with a HOF coach in Paul Brown, and alongside 8 other HOF players, one of which was Marion Motley, one of the best--if not THE BEST RB in the NFL from 1946-1953.

Bart Starr played on a team alongside 12 Hall of Famers and arguably the greatest coach of the game.

Now honestly, sir....just how many players from the Patriots during Brady's run are currently in the HOF or are going to make the HOF?
I'll guarantee you there Ain't going to be 8 of 'em. And Randy Moss is in the HOF for his career at Minnesota--Brady had him for 1 year....

Get a dern grip ......

PM may be the best DOME QB to ever play the game.... but take him out of the Dome in the post-season and he was nothing better than average....and that's just the truth.
 
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#227
#227
PhoenixAZVol said:
The point is that somehow Belichick always finds a way to get these less talented players to play their best for him.
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That's fine. But, don't give me the argument of how awesome the talent is on the teams he's played on. His WR corps is Braxton Berrios, Philip Dorsett, Julian Edelman, Josh Gordon (out), Chris Hogan, Cordarelle Patterson, and Matthew Slater.

I'm telling you right now.....there is no one who ever has played QB in this game, that's taking that trash to the Super Bowl. Tom Brady is the only guy and he's done that practically his whole career at the WR spot. Not John Taylor and Jerry Rice. Not Swann and Stallworth. Not Sanders, Clark and Monk. Not Irvin and Harper. Not Holt and Bruce. Not Harrison, Wayne, and Garcon. Read the name of those turds again. And he's doing at 41.
 
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#228
#228
I think its hard to compare them head to head. Brady is undisputably great but also had the great fortune to have Belichick as a coach, remain healthy and above all, had a great defense to help win the game. Peyton, on the other hand, was essentially the coach at the LOS, it was a miracle that he ever played again after his neck injury and of course, he rarely had a defense that was worth spit.

For these reasons, you cant compare them. Brady has had optimal circumstances vs Peyton has overcome enormous odds even to keep playing as long as he did. Both are worthy of respect as one of the greatest of all time. Would Peyton have won more rings than Brady if he had similar circumstances? It is not a question that really can be answered, though I am sure having a defense and without a neck injury Peyton would have surely had a few more than the 2 he has.
 
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#230
#230
dcm3w said:
What was comical and sad is that when the Broncos reaped the benefits of a superior defense is when Peyton lost his physical ability to play the game. Just imagine MVP Manning and the SB Bronco's defense together...wouldve been legendary.

There's no right or wrong in this debate. Some only see SBs and some only see regular season stats. But my only point for Peyton over Brady is that Peyton was a bigger asset. Cassel did well with the Patriots when he was injured, I think to a 10 win season. Then players like Jimmy G, Brissette, and Mallet looked like franchise players but it was all a front for the ingenuity of Bill.
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Peyton had 5 mvps to Brady’s 3. Voters knew that Peyton was more valuable to his team.
 
#232
#232
99gator said:
That's fine. But, don't give me the argument of how awesome the talent is on the teams he's played on. His WR corps is Braxton Berrios, Philip Dorsett, Julian Edelman, Josh Gordon (out), Chris Hogan, Cordarelle Patterson, and Matthew Slater.

I'm telling you right now.....there is no one who ever has played QB in this game, that's taking that trash to the Super Bowl. Tom Brady is the only guy and he's done that practically his whole career at the WR spot. Not John Taylor and Jerry Rice. Not Swann and Stallworth. Not Sanders, Clark and Monk. Not Irvin and Harper. Not Holt and Bruce. Not Harrison, Wayne, and Garcon. Read the name of those turds again. And he's doing at 41.
Click to expand...


Could anybody do better than Aaron Rodgers with his lack of talent at Gb. He actually has to run, make athletic throw on the run and fight for his life every game. You think tommy could play in that offense with his skill set?
 
#233
#233
99gator said:
That's fine. But, don't give me the argument of how awesome the talent is on the teams he's played on. His WR corps is Braxton Berrios, Philip Dorsett, Julian Edelman, Josh Gordon (out), Chris Hogan, Cordarelle Patterson, and Matthew Slater.

I'm telling you right now.....there is no one who ever has played QB in this game, that's taking that trash to the Super Bowl. Tom Brady is the only guy and he's done that practically his whole career at the WR spot. Not John Taylor and Jerry Rice. Not Swann and Stallworth. Not Sanders, Clark and Monk. Not Irvin and Harper. Not Holt and Bruce. Not Harrison, Wayne, and Garcon. Read the name of those turds again. And he's doing at 41.
Click to expand...

this x 10000000000000000000.
preach!
 
#234
#234
PhoenixAZVol said:
Could anybody do better than Aaron Rodgers with his lack of talent at Gb. He actually has to run, make athletic throw on the run and fight for his life every game. You think tommy could play in that offense with his skill set?
Click to expand...

Could Peyton?
 
#235
#235
MikeVol44 said:
Not hardly, sir. You need to guess again.... Graham NEVER played in a SB....his seasons ended with NFL championships, which, as I said before, are equivalent to the AFC/NFC Championships in today's game. Brady's record in those games is essentially equal to Graham's.

Otto Graham played on a team with a HOF coach in Paul Brown, and alongside 8 other HOF players, one of which was Marion Motley, one of the best--if not THE BEST RB in the NFL from 1946-1953.

Bart Starr played on a team alongside 12 Hall of Famers and arguably the greatest coach of the game.

Now honestly, sir....just how many players from the Patriots during Brady's run are currently in the HOF or are going to make the HOF?
I'll guarantee you there Ain't going to be 8 of 'em. And Randy Moss is in the HOF for his career at Minnesota--Brady had him for 1 year....

Get a dern grip ......

PM may be the best DOME QB to ever play the game.... but take him out of the Dome in the post-season and he was nothing better than average....and that's just the truth.
Click to expand...

On your last point, Denver is outdoors, cold, windy and high.
PManning turned them into a championship contender and champion.
He had the best season (2013) any QB ever had in Denver (set 4 untouchable records).
When he left, they returned to the cellar.

You're fixated on SBs as if football started in 1966. The AFL started in 1960 (and wasn't competitive for a decade); Graham retired in 53. Graham played in the Championship Games that there were -- 10 times in 10 years. Brady 8 times in 19 years.
 
#236
#236
PhoenixAZVol said:
Could anybody do better than Aaron Rodgers with his lack of talent at Gb. He actually has to run, make athletic throw on the run and fight for his life every game. You think tommy could play in that offense with his skill set?
Click to expand...

I love Aaron Rodgers and have all the respect in the world for him but Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Davante Adams.....way better than anyone I listed currently on the roster.

He has seemingly had the same rent-a-rb during his career the way brady has.

There are a lot of similarities. Brady has just done more
 
#237
#237
peaygolf said:
I will only say that it was a completely different era. Bradshaw may not have been as good in today’s game. But, those guys wouldn’t have been as good in that era. It’s why saying “Goat” is really impossible. Hell Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh did things nobody else could do during their eras.

TB and PM are the best in this generation. Not sure that can be honestly debated.
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Bradshaw May have gotten a lot of help from his defense but he was very tough (and I hated the Steelers) and could connect on a long pass from time to time. You can’t compare his generation vs today’s because it’s a completely different game back then. You could actually takle the qb back then. You think Brady or others in today’s game would last 18 years. Nope.
 
#238
#238
WiseOlVol said:
Yes. Next QB is 5 -- Unitas and Luckman.
Brady at 3 (and finished there) has the most of active QBs.
Manning's 7 is untouchable.
FYI, at 7-3, Graham has a better Championship Record than Brady.
So does Bart Starr: 5-1.
Leaves Brady without much by way of individual achievements.
Click to expand...
You’re so naive. 😏
 
#239
#239
99gator said:
That's fine. But, don't give me the argument of how awesome the talent is on the teams he's played on. His WR corps is Braxton Berrios, Philip Dorsett, Julian Edelman, Josh Gordon (out), Chris Hogan, Cordarelle Patterson, and Matthew Slater.

I'm telling you right now.....there is no one who ever has played QB in this game, that's taking that trash to the Super Bowl. Tom Brady is the only guy and he's done that practically his whole career at the WR spot. Not John Taylor and Jerry Rice. Not Swann and Stallworth. Not Sanders, Clark and Monk. Not Irvin and Harper. Not Holt and Bruce. Not Harrison, Wayne, and Garcon. Read the name of those turds again. And he's doing at 41.
Click to expand...

When 75% of your passes are 3 yards or less, you just need a couple short guys with quick starts.
 
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#240
#240
PhoenixAZVol said:
Could anybody do better than Aaron Rodgers with his lack of talent at Gb. He actually has to run, make athletic throw on the run and fight for his life every game. You think tommy could play in that offense with his skill set?
Click to expand...

Aaron Rodgers????? You talking 'bout Aaron Rodgers?? The guy who have only led his teams to score an average of 21 points in NFC championship games?????? Go sit down, junior.....
 
#243
#243
99gator said:
I love Aaron Rodgers and have all the respect in the world for him but Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Davante Adams.....way better than anyone I listed currently on the roster.

He has seemingly had the same rent-a-rb during his career the way brady has.

There are a lot of similarities. Brady has just done more
Click to expand...


How about his oline? No comparison. Pats much better.
 
#245
#245
WiseOlVol said:
On your last point, Denver is outdoors, cold, windy and high.
PManning turned them into a championship contender and champion.
He had the best season (2013) any QB ever had in Denver (set 4 untouchable records).
When he left, they returned to the cellar.

You're fixated on SBs as if football started in 1966. The AFL started in 1960 (and wasn't competitive for a decade); Graham retired in 53. Graham played in the Championship Games that there were -- 10 times in 10 years. Brady 8 times in 19 years.
Click to expand...

Yeah a 1/3 of the teams back in the 50s.
 
#247
#247
LittleVol said:
If Tom Brady never emerges. Peyton probably wins 5 or 6 Super Bowls maybe.

If Tom Brady is the Michael Jordan of football.
Then Peyton is the Lebron James.

If Tom Brady is 100 on the scale.
Peyton is a 99.
Montana is a 94.

There is a gap between 2nd and 3rd and yet Tom is undoubtedly number 1. JMO.

Watch Tom's games at Michigan. That dude many times was thrust out there because their big shot Drew Henson couldn't get his team out of the hole. And He'd come in to lead them to victory. Tom's been doing that type of greatness even before NFL. He's the BEST QB of all time.
And if he didn't exist. Then Peyton Manning undoubtedly would have been the best of all time by a wide margin. Jmo...
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He rode the bench most of his time at Michigan and drew henson was more of a baseball player. He was drafted in the sixth round so that tells me that nobody was real impressed with his career at Michigan.
 
#248
#248
Gandalf said:
I think its hard to compare them head to head. Brady is undisputably great but also had the great fortune to have Belichick as a coach, remain healthy and above all, had a great defense to help win the game. Peyton, on the other hand, was essentially the coach at the LOS, it was a miracle that he ever played again after his neck injury and of course, he rarely had a defense that was worth spit.

For these reasons, you cant compare them. Brady has had optimal circumstances vs Peyton has overcome enormous odds even to keep playing as long as he did. Both are worthy of respect as one of the greatest of all time. Would Peyton have won more rings than Brady if he had similar circumstances? It is not a question that really can be answered, though I am sure having a defense and without a neck injury Peyton would have surely had a few more than the 2 he has.
Click to expand...

These are the reasons PManning has 5 NFL MVPs, 7 All-Pros and is GOAT.
He had the best season any QB ever had in 2013, setting 4 untouchable records, winning NFL MVP (best player in the league) and All-Pro (best QB in the league).
He carried the 28th best D to the Super Bowl (w journeyman John Fox as HC).
 
#249
#249
WiseOlVol said:
When 75% of your passes are 3 yards or less, you just need a couple short guys with quick starts.
Click to expand...

So easy, anyone could do it.

Way back when, there was a charge against Peyton for playoff failure. I used to mention the amount of times his teams were 1 and done in the playoffs, even after a bye. However, 4 super bowl appearances, 2 wins. There's nothing negative to really say about Peyton. You have to look for something.

Well, I'm sorry. 13 conference title games. 9 super bowls. IF he plays next season, barring injury, he will pass Manning in yards and TD passes. I just don't know where the argument is.

I am willing to bet when it's over, Manning will have played with more hall of famers than Brady too
 
#250
#250
WiseOlVol said:
Marv Fleming won NFL Championships: 65, 66, 67 (Packers) 72, 73 (Dolphins).
Is he the Greatest Tight End of All Time?
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Whoever the catcher was on babe Ruth’s Yankees teams when they won all of those World Series is the greatest catcher of all time.
 
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