Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#26
#26
Here's what I don't understand. The Patriots remind me a lot of Florida. Both sets of receivers run timing routes with many going to the sidelines for a pass only they can catch. They do go across the middle (to TE or slot) when man-press coverage is on the receivers. They run the ball when inside the 5-yard line. There are a lot of people making a lot more money than me to figure out Brady's offensive strategy....but...

Were I a DC, I would play man-press coverage the entire game and "jam" the receiver at the line of scrimmage (with the 5-yard zone)...every. single. time. This disrupts the timing.
Then I would blitz one LB or DB on Brady constantly - every down. They would come from various packages and from multiple positions.
I would pay for the best DT/DEs in the business to put constant pressure (in addition to the blitzer) on Brady and force him to move around or out of the pocket all together.

I don't care who they play. If the defense sits back and gives time, Brady will eat your lunch and hand you the ticket every time. He runs his offense almost like many of us back out cars out of the driveway - it seems almost as if it is "automatic". It's reminiscent of Steve Spurrier's "Fun and Gun" offense.

They'll be 50 of you to disagree - so lets hear it (respectfully please)...
 
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#27
#27
volfannbama said:
Lol, Mannings colts teams had tons of talent, including a hall of fame wr.
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Oh wow a hall of fame receiver? Well heck how did anyone ever beat them? People act like I’m talking just the offensive side of the ball... patriots D was always far far superior to the colts so Brady didn’t feel like he had to put up 40 every game to win... also belichi is like Saban, I’m convinced he could win games with a team full of mannequins.
 
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#29
#29
Alex10 said:
Guess we see things differently, those patriots teams were overall much better than those colts teams.... if they played each other and you took Brady and Manning off their teams and put generic qb’s on them both the patriots win 9 times out of 10. As a matter of fact the year Brady went down in the first or second game of the year the patriots still went 11-5 with the backup qb, the year manning was out for the colts they went 1-15, I don’t know that speaks volumes to me.
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They were better coached. Colts had plenty of talent. And the Patriots didn’t make the playoffs. Same would have happened with Garrapallo. Belichick can coach up anybody, but he’s always needed Brady to close the deal. And there’s been no one better in history than Brady at that.
 
#30
#30
Alex10 said:
Oh wow a hall of fame receiver? Well heck how did anyone ever beat them? People act like I’m talking just the offensive side of the ball... patriots D was always far far superior to the colts so Brady didn’t feel like he had to put up 40 every game to win... also belichi is like Saban, I’m convinced he could win games with a team full of mannequins.
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Games...not championships. Never done it without Brady.
 
#31
#31
butchna said:
They were better coached. Colts had plenty of talent. And the Patriots didn’t make the playoffs. Same would have happened with Garrapallo. Belichick can coach up anybody, but he’s always needed Brady to close the deal. And there’s been no one better in history than Brady at that.
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Yeah i don’t disagree with this, but Brady is one part, bell hi I is the other.... manning had to do it on his own, he didn’t have a brilliant coach helping him win the games... like you said Brady helped make belichick... I also think belichick helped make Brady. Anyway I agree that Brady deserves the GOAT I just think he gets it for different reasons than most.
 
#33
#33
Alex10 said:
Yeah i don’t disagree with this, but Brady is one part, bell hi I is the other.... manning had to do it on his own, he didn’t have a brilliant coach helping him win the games... like you said Brady helped make belichick... I also think belichick helped make Brady. Anyway I agree that Brady deserves the GOAT I just think he gets it for different reasons than most.
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When he won with the Colts, he had a HOF HC. When he won with the Broncos, he had genius DC and most likely future HOF Wade Phillips coordinating the defense that won the game. Whenever Peyton’s WON? He hasn’t done it alone.
 
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#34
#34
butchna said:
Peyton had a GM that would keep a Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark throughout their productivity...Brady didn’t save for habitually injured Gronk. In addition to the sheer number of Super Bowl and AFC championship game APPEARANCES...much less wins there’s no contest. And the passing marks Peyton put up are soon to be passed up if not already (thank god for Drew Brees). Patriots never carried Brady...quite the vice-versa. Belichick is the superior football mind to whoever Peyton had as his HC, but Belichick was average to below mediocre as a HC before Brady emerged. As a Peyton apologist, I yielded to reality a long time ago on this one.
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Too much logic. I'm sure Brady would have really stunk it up if he had had Wayne and Harrison at the same time, as opposed to going to one Super Bowl with Reche Caldwell as his #1 WR, never having Gronk and Edelman both available in any Super Bowl until this one (when Gronk is one game away from retiring), etc. Didn't Peyton also have that obscure nobody at RB known as Edgerrin James, at the same time as Wayne and Harrison? How many HOF running backs has Brady had? None would be the answer.

Brady with Wayne and Harrison both in their prime would have equalled seventy TDs in a season and 19-0. The NFL would have cancelled the season in November because all the owners would be frothing at the mouth for getting blown out by 50 every week and having their entire league become a running joke.

I already wrote this in another thread but the misinformation/false claims in this thread occasion mentioning it again: Steve Young, as in HOF QB Steve Young, was asked a couple years ago on one of the ESPNs who, in his opinion, was the greatest QB; he answered without hesitation that it was Brady, "because he has done more with less than anybody else." He went on to point out how substantial the gap has been between the talent Brady has been surrounded with, and the talent other top QBs have had.

Brady's top receiver going into the Super Bowl is a 5'9", thirty-two-year old white guy who missed all of last season with a torn ACL. His second option at receiver is a TE who a year ago still was playing at HOF level, and this year has three TDs and 682 yards for the season. I wonder if anyone on here taking pot shots at Brady can even name another of his receivers without Google help? Here's a hint: they're all cast-offs of other teams.
 
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#35
#35
Peyton NEVER had A defense until his LAST Super Bowl Win! Never at Indy, and Never really had the Coaching that Brady's had. Peyton in his prime was as good as anyone ever. Go back and watch some of those great performances before the neck injury. Awesome QB. AND A VFL! So. And as far as we know; Never Cheated!!!
 
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#37
#37
1974Vol said:
Some how the whole GOAT thing got tied to Superbowl wins. I get it I guess but this ain't golf or tennis, you can't just go on Majors wins...its a team game. If we're on the school yard and we're picking teams and every big time NFL QB is there in their prime, I'm taking Dan Marino first. Never won a SB, only played in one, but if you just want the best QB talent on your team you take Dan.
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Marino had the arm but he didn't have the ability to read defenses or the timing that Brady does. No one has ever approached him in either of those, and they are why he has the titles.
 
#38
#38
butchna said:
Peyton had a GM that would keep a Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark throughout their productivity...Brady didn’t save for habitually injured Gronk. In addition to the sheer number of Super Bowl and AFC championship game APPEARANCES...much less wins there’s no contest. And the passing marks Peyton put up are soon to be passed up if not already (thank god for Drew Brees). Patriots never carried Brady...quite the vice-versa. Belichick is the superior football mind to whoever Peyton had as his HC, but Belichick was average to below mediocre as a HC before Brady emerged. As a Peyton apologist, I yielded to reality a long time ago on this one.
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Idk Belichek was pretty damn good before Brady. Honestly I think Manning or Brady would both have been the greatest of all time playing for Belichek. JMO though.
 
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#39
#39
JohnWardForever said:
Peyton NEVER had A defense until his LAST Super Bowl Win! Never at Indy, and Never really had the Coaching that Brady's had. Peyton in his prime was as good as anyone ever. Go back and watch some of those great performances before the neck injury. Awesome QB. AND A VFL! So. And as far as we know; Never Cheated!!!
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He had a top defense the one year with the Colts where they won it vs the Bears. You need the defense!
 
#41
#41
JohnWardForever said:
Peyton NEVER had A defense until his LAST Super Bowl Win! Never at Indy, and Never really had the Coaching that Brady's had. Peyton in his prime was as good as anyone ever. Go back and watch some of those great performances before the neck injury. Awesome QB. AND A VFL! So. And as far as we know; Never Cheated!!!
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That 06 Colts D was pretty good by the time the playoffs rolled around.

I'm partial to Manning but there is no denying what Brady and BB have done for nearly 2 decades.
 
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#42
#42
JohnWardForever said:
Peyton NEVER had A defense until his LAST Super Bowl Win! Never at Indy, and Never really had the Coaching that Brady's had. Peyton in his prime was as good as anyone ever. Go back and watch some of those great performances before the neck injury. Awesome QB. AND A VFL! So. And as far as we know; Never Cheated!!!
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Don't let facts get in the way of your slander of Brady:

A reporter for the Boston Herald originated the story about the Patriots taping Rams practices - three months later, the same paper printed a retraction:

www.thetomaselie.com

Here's an article about Deflategate from no less than Sports Illustrated claiming that the Patriots are exonerated by simple science (don't read it if you get offended by an MIT professor taking away your reason to discredit the GOAT):
Science says Patriots never tampered footballs
 
#43
#43
Brady is a great system quarterback. He has been in a good system and fortunately has a coach that doesn't squander his talents.
 
#44
#44
JohnWardForever said:
Peyton NEVER had A defense until his LAST Super Bowl Win! Never at Indy, and Never really had the Coaching that Brady's had. Peyton in his prime was as good as anyone ever. Go back and watch some of those great performances before the neck injury. Awesome QB. AND A VFL! So. And as far as we know; Never Cheated!!!
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Peyton didn’t have a very good playoffs before that first Super Bowl. Defense was horrid throughout the season, but Bob Sanders returned in time for the playoffs and they pretty much carried Peyton for two of those wins...would’ve lost without their performance. He delivered against Brady in that AFC Championship game but isn’t there if he had to compensate for the D as in other postseasons. As far as Brady cheating? Yeah...took some air out of some footballs. Did they make the throws for him?
 
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#45
#45
GTBATV said:
Brady is a great system quarterback. He has been in a good system and fortunately has a coach that doesn't squander his talents.
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What other QBs have won championships in that system?
 
#48
#48
JohnWardForever said:
Tony Dungy a HOF Coach? Well he had nothing to do with the Offense, so why was Indy's D Mediocre? Peyton had to outscore everyone, I remember. I watched every game. Dungy was average; Imo. A good guy; but average.
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Look it up on the internet. His plaque’s there. I think they gave him a jacket.
 
#49
#49
DaddyChad said:
Idk Belichek was pretty damn good before Brady. Honestly I think Manning or Brady would both have been the greatest of all time playing for Belichek. JMO though.
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Belichick had a losing record prior to Brady. He got fired by no less than the Cleveland Browns.
 
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