Will there be any new Assistants?

#102
#102
B EaZy40 said:
What are you thinking?

DB coach
D line coach
QB coach
possible movement to Oline for Debord if Helfrich is a legitimate OC option?
Click to expand...

Heard Doug Mathews and others say some of guys are getting phone calls and offers from other programs.....so between guys leaving on their own and Jones needing to make changes, I think it's 3-4.

I think Martinez is 100% gone, probably Mahoney as well. Those two have performed the worst. I'd be good with Jones moving Azzani on his way as well. Don't know about the others. Hope we can hang onto Gillespie.
 
#104
#104
I think LB coach and OL coach are logical changes. Thig will get another offer as will Maloney probably if they are looking. I can see Debord taking OL and being run game coordinator. A new QB coach coming in as pass game coordinator and a new LB coach.
 
#106
#106
Jones is too busy reviewing his "naughty and nice" charts for the media blow ups this season. Running short of time to get those cards out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#107
#107
Vol_guy said:
I expect to see Don Mahoney and Willie Martinez fired. Our secondary and offensive line have been this team's biggest weakness for more than just this season. Let debord coach the o-line and hire a qb coach.
Click to expand...

The OL isn't failing because of Mahoney. Mahoney is teaching them the techniques required by Jones' O system. The only way the OL performance ever reaches potential is if Jones hires a good OC then lets him install a better system.... or he starts getting Bama level recruiting classes every year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#108
#108
sjt18 said:
The OL isn't failing because of Mahoney. Mahoney is teaching them the techniques required by Jones' O system. The only way the OL performance ever reaches potential is if Jones hires a good OC then lets him install a better system.... or he starts getting Bama level recruiting classes every year.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
#109
#109
sjt18 said:
The OL isn't failing because of Mahoney. Mahoney is teaching them the techniques required by Jones' O system. The only way the OL performance ever reaches potential is if Jones hires a good OC then lets him install a better system.... or he starts getting Bama level recruiting classes every year.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, so the O line sux because Jones teaches them crap. But if he get's bama level recruits they'll Know the correct techniques and just disregard Jones and Mahoney's teachings. :crazy:
 
#110
#110
Zues1 said:
Hmmm, so the O line sux because Jones teaches them crap. But if he get's bama level recruits they'll Know the correct techniques and just disregard Jones and Mahoney's teachings. :crazy:
Click to expand...

I didn't say he "teaches them crap". I said what his system requires them to be taught isn't working.

The system Jones uses requires the OL to use a certain set of techniques. You can see it work sometimes when UT plays less talented opponents. But it fails badly against more talented opponents. To a degree that's true of any system but as proven by the results so far.... not as much as in Jones' system. So for it to give UT a chance against better D's.... UT has to have elite OL talent. Jones has yet to prove he can land elite OL talent. Even when he had elite OL talent like in year 1.... his system didn't work very well.

Maybe a good case study for you would be to watch the ASU game. They weren't more talented but refused to be "influenced" by UT's OL. They read the backfield motion and shot the gaps that UT's scheme INTENTIONALLY leaves open.

Although it is a little difficult to describe, think in terms of finesse instead of aggressive. Think in terms of "catching" and influence blocks vs drive blocking.


Of course you have another option to explain why it isn't working... you could say that Jones simply doesn't know how to recruit OL.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#113
#113
There won't be 5 more than likely 2-3 including S & C coach. I don't believe Debord will be forced out and I also do not believe UT will pay coordinator type pay to 3 coaches in a co-coordinator scenario. Just my opinion
 
#114
#114
sjt18 said:
I didn't say he "teaches them crap". I said what his system requires them to be taught isn't working.

The system Jones uses requires the OL to use a certain set of techniques. You can see it work sometimes when UT plays less talented opponents. But it fails badly against more talented opponents. To a degree that's true of any system but as proven by the results so far.... not as much as in Jones' system. So for it to give UT a chance against better D's.... UT has to have elite OL talent. Jones has yet to prove he can land elite OL talent. Even when he had elite OL talent like in year 1.... his system didn't work very well.

Maybe a good case study for you would be to watch the ASU game. They weren't more talented but refused to be "influenced" by UT's OL. They read the backfield motion and shot the gaps that UT's scheme INTENTIONALLY leaves open.

Although it is a little difficult to describe, think in terms of finesse instead of aggressive. Think in terms of "catching" and influence blocks vs drive blocking.


Of course you have another option to explain why it isn't working... you could say that Jones simply doesn't know how to recruit OL.
Click to expand...

Since you obviously know how it should work - maybe you should apply for the job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#115
#115
sjt18 said:
I didn't say he "teaches them crap". I said what his system requires them to be taught isn't working.

The system Jones uses requires the OL to use a certain set of techniques. You can see it work sometimes when UT plays less talented opponents. But it fails badly against more talented opponents. To a degree that's true of any system but as proven by the results so far.... not as much as in Jones' system. So for it to give UT a chance against better D's.... UT has to have elite OL talent. Jones has yet to prove he can land elite OL talent. Even when he had elite OL talent like in year 1.... his system didn't work very well.

Maybe a good case study for you would be to watch the ASU game. They weren't more talented but refused to be "influenced" by UT's OL. They read the backfield motion and shot the gaps that UT's scheme INTENTIONALLY leaves open.

Although it is a little difficult to describe, think in terms of finesse instead of aggressive. Think in terms of "catching" and influence blocks vs drive blocking.


Of course you have another option to explain why it isn't working... you could say that Jones simply doesn't know how to recruit OL.
Click to expand...

That description doesn't support your theory on Butch's syestem being the problem.

If it works against less talent and not against better talent...That is call Football. Sounds like we need more talent and not a new system.

Our offense has been top 5 in the SEC the last 2 years.
The problem is coaching within the system, not the system. Mahoney has been on borrowed time since he got here the OL has been the issue for years, NOT the System!!!
We have plenty of OL talent that just isn't getting developed to the level you need to win in the SEC, lack of coaching not lack of quality players.:)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#116
#116
volfan102455 said:
Since you obviously know how it should work - maybe you should apply for the job.
Click to expand...

Since you seem to suggest that what I said isn't true.... maybe you should there smart guy.

I didn't claim I could do the job... just like I don't claim to know how to be an architect. But I can still see when certain designs aren't working and compare them to work done by other architects.... and apply my layman's knowledge of architecture, materials, design, physics, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#117
#117
johnrlansford said:
That description doesn't support your theory on Butch's syestem being the problem.

If it works against less talent and not against better talent...That is call Football. Sounds like we need more talent and not a new system.
Click to expand...
No. Not it isn't called Football.

Mizzou built competent OL's out of 2*'s and walk ons. Their system helped make them successful. Vandy and UK had success with their OL's this year.... and not particularly because of talent.

Jones' system does not appear to put guys who perhaps aren't as talented as the guys they're supposed to block in a position to be successful.

You could be right that it is simply a matter of talent. I don't think I dismissed that.... but that too would fall squarely in Jones' lap. Four years is enough time to find talent.

Our offense has been top 5 in the SEC the last 2 years.
Click to expand...

And unable to produce big wins or operate without a QB capable of baling the whole thing out.
The problem is coaching within the system, not the system. Mahoney has been on borrowed time since he got here the OL has been the issue for years, NOT the System!!!
Click to expand...
Mahoney has taught the techniques required to run Jones' system. Jones has kept him pretty much his whole time as a HC because he considers Mahoney competent at teaching those techniques the way he wants them taught.

What changed?

PS- Lawson was with Jones for a long time too.

IMO, Jones' step up in competition made his O scheme ineffective.

We have plenty of OL talent that just isn't getting developed to the level you need to win in the SEC, lack of coaching not lack of quality players.:)
Click to expand...
So basically.... you want to deflect blame from Jones as an offensive coach and place it squarely on Jones as a HC and leader of the staff?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#119
#119
sjt18 said:
No. Not it isn't called Football.

Mizzou built competent OL's out of 2*'s and walk ons. Their system helped make them successful. Vandy and UK had success with their OL's this year.... and not particularly because of talent.

Jones' system does not appear to put guys who perhaps aren't as talented as the guys they're supposed to block in a position to be successful.

You could be right that it is simply a matter of talent. I don't think I dismissed that.... but that too would fall squarely in Jones' lap. Four years is enough time to find talent.



And unable to produce big wins or operate without a QB capable of baling the whole thing out.
Mahoney has taught the techniques required to run Jones' system. Jones has kept him pretty much his whole time as a HC because he considers Mahoney competent at teaching those techniques the way he wants them taught.
What changed?

PS- Lawson was with Jones for a long time too.

IMO, Jones' step up in competition made his O scheme ineffective.


So basically.... you want to deflect blame from Jones as an offensive coach and place it squarely on Jones as a HC and leader of the staff?
Click to expand...

How do you know Mahoney has taught the correct technique are you at practice daily are you an explayer. I don't think so, you are assumming that Mahoney has taught the correct technique.

The point is You don't know what they are getting taught, it is easy to blame the system since you are obviously not a fan of it but, Bottom line is the OL hasn't been coached up and there is plenty of talent on the Ol to win in the SEC if developed properly!!:)

And yes it all falls on Butch as the HC to get a coach who can develop an OL. The system is fine we aren't the only people running it, The system works...You don't have to liek it for it to work!!! it puts up a lot of points...Our defense has been our downfall the past few years as to why we couldn't win big games, not our offensive scheme!!!:)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#120
#120
sjt18 said:
I didn't say he "teaches them crap". I said what his system requires them to be taught isn't working.

The system Jones uses requires the OL to use a certain set of techniques. You can see it work sometimes when UT plays less talented opponents. But it fails badly against more talented opponents. To a degree that's true of any system but as proven by the results so far.... not as much as in Jones' system. So for it to give UT a chance against better D's.... UT has to have elite OL talent. Jones has yet to prove he can land elite OL talent. Even when he had elite OL talent like in year 1.... his system didn't work very well.

Maybe a good case study for you would be to watch the ASU game. They weren't more talented but refused to be "influenced" by UT's OL. They read the backfield motion and shot the gaps that UT's scheme INTENTIONALLY leaves open.

Although it is a little difficult to describe, think in terms of finesse instead of aggressive. Think in terms of "catching" and influence blocks vs drive blocking.


Of course you have another option to explain why it isn't working... you could say that Jones simply doesn't know how to recruit OL.
Click to expand...
agreed.
 
#121
#121
johnrlansford said:
How do you know Mahoney has taught the correct technique are you at practice daily are you an explayer. I don't think so, you are assumming that Mahoney has taught the correct technique.

The point is You don't know what they are getting taught, it is easy to blame the system since you are obviously not a fan of it but, Bottom line is the OL hasn't been coached up and there is plenty of talent on the Ol to win in the SEC if developed properly!!:)

And yes it all falls on Butch as the HC to get a coach who can develop an OL. The system is fine we aren't the only people running it, The system works...You don't have to liek it for it to work!!! it puts up a lot of points...Our defense has been our downfall the past few years as to why we couldn't win big games, not our offensive scheme!!!:)
Click to expand...

Essentially Butch has kept a poor OL coach to implement his scheme which there is nothing wrong with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#122
#122
Orange&White said:
I don't think anybody disagrees with you that we had a high scoring offense that could put up a lot of yards, I believe it's more of the in-game situational play calling that bothers people. We run when we should pass, and pass when we should run. We continuously run the same plays that are not working. In my opinion it seems that we rely too much on a choreographed game plan and the "chart" and when that game plan is shut down by opponents we are out coached by opposing coaching staffs.

Just look at the USC and Vandy games, they made adjustments and shut us down and our coaches failed to adjust and put us in a position to win. Dobbs was having one of his worst games at USC, while you don't completely take him out of the game plan, give it to somebody who was hot (Kelly) and let them take the game over. Then let Dobbs slowly warm up and let him become a bigger part of the offense. But instead we continued to pass and Dobbs threw an untimely interception. At Vandy we were killing them through the air and having success with the read, but we went away from it in the 2nd half. Then on 4th down, while I agree to get the ball to AK, why throw it 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage after a TO? I just think the in-game play calling and game management is atrocious at times, without our athletes we currently have on the roster to make big plays out of nothing I do not see what this coaching staff does to put our players and Tennessee in a position to succeed. I also think we have under utilized the talent on our roster all season.

With all that being said, I do not think anything happens to DeBord unless he leaves on his own. I also think he is the least of our worries. Looking at you defense...
Click to expand...
then those people are ridiculous
 
#123
#123
johnrlansford said:
How do you know Mahoney has taught the correct technique are you at practice daily are you an explayer. I don't think so, you are assumming that Mahoney has taught the correct technique.
Click to expand...
Let's assume you are right. If so, why did Jones keep an incompetent coach on staff for all 10 of his years as an HC? If Mahoney hasn't been teaching them correctly and Jones tolerated him for the last 3 years.... what does that tell you?

The point is You don't know what they are getting taught, it is easy to blame the system since you are obviously not a fan of it but, Bottom line is the OL hasn't been coached up and there is plenty of talent on the Ol to win in the SEC if developed properly!!:)
Click to expand...
It isn't the spread option per se. It is specifically what they seem to be doing with the OL.

Early on there were some former UT OL's who expressed confusion at what Jones was trying to teach the OLs. That specific quote would be hard to find but it was posted here. The techniques were a departure from what UT had done going back to Fulmer.

And yes it all falls on Butch as the HC to get a coach who can develop an OL. The system is fine we aren't the only people running it, The system works...You don't have to liek it for it to work!!!
Click to expand...
That's not entirely true. Jones' system is nuanced. He put his stamp on it.... at least that's what he's said.

it puts up a lot of points...
Click to expand...
The worth of an O system is what it does against great D's.
Our defense has been our downfall the past few years as to why we couldn't win big games, not our offensive scheme!!!:)
Click to expand...
So you will argue that the OL was all hunky-dory against UT's better opponents this year? Are you REALLY going to make that argument?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#124
#124
BeecherVol said:
Essentially Butch has kept a poor OL coach to implement his scheme which there is nothing wrong with.
Click to expand...

Facts are, we have had one of the best offenses the SEC the last two years, especially 2016. Our QB was 2016 SEC offensive player of the year. Good grief, our offensive coaches have to be the worst in the history of Tennessee football. You guys are a little short on facts and logic.
 
Last edited:
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top