Why has Omar Payne gotten no action after the game from Florida or the SEC ?

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Mike White needs to be suspended for a few games. He had Payne in the game in order to be a thug and to pound on Fulk. But Payne is too stupid to know how to be subtle about it.

It’s been happening all year. Pound on Fulkerson. That’s not basketball, but the SEC refs allow it, and it got out of hand. Their response has been to allow the physical play and then at some point during the game they start calling touch fouls. Those idiots in the SEC office need to get this garbage under control and suspending coaches that instruct their players to be thugs would be a good start.

 

[SaipanVol]

Was it Lawgator?

I really don't know. I know his name and would recognize him. He had 28 incidents where the police were called. If I ever run into him when I am in the States I will do what I told his dad.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

I haven't really committed to the notion of him not being suspended. I'm torn on the issue. I see the logic of it, I do. But I also see the effect that would have on innocent third parties and that makes me pause.

There is plenty of precedent (oh wow, another law term) that deemed a suspension an appropriate remedy. If you want to take the argument that the 2nd elbow was somewhat equivocal to a sucker punch, there is a ton of precedent that supported a multi-game suspension.

 

[Jimmy Football]

I mean all penalties in collegiate athletics hurt innocent parties. Sanctions on schools that cheated hurt kids playing there years after the infractions occur. Players deemed ineligible are missed by their teammates who did nothing wrong. That's life. The answer can't be to just throw up your hands and have no accountability at all

It’s an unfortunate (but generally unavoidable) element of any punishment of significance. And Lawgator knows that. He’s just obfuscating the issue at hand by taking a general problem posed by the nature of punitive action and acting as though it is uniquely applicable to the current situation.

It’s sort of like losing a bet, then asking your bookie to consider the ethical ramifications of gambling once he comes to collect.

 

[Vol49er]

It’s an unfortunate (but generally unavoidable) element of any punishment of significance. And Lawgator knows that. He’s just obfuscating the issue at hand by taking a general problem posed by the nature of punitive action and acting as though it is uniquely applicable to the current situation.

It’s sort of like losing a bet, then asking your bookie to consider the ethical ramifications of gambling once he comes to collect.

Well said

 

[kayman1]

It's simple. For every game Fulky misses, pos payne should. Already It's 1. It was an unexcusable play.

 

[Delmar]

What do you want me to say? Payne was completely in the wrong and I think some sort of punishment is warranted. I'm just not sure what it ought to be and when it should be. A suspension right at the start of the NCAA tournament? That seems to just aim to defeat the team for the action of one player. I don't think anyone contends that Payne meant to cause as serious an injury as he did. In fact, I imagine that those kind of elbow throws occur in the course of many NCAA games but this one stands out because of the magnitude of the injury.

Is that a factor in punishment? Of course. But you can't let it dictate the sanction. Otherwise you overreact to this one to the detriment of all the other times when the intent is the same but no one particularly notices or cares because no injury resulted.

No this stands out because he did it twice INTENTIONALLY. And sometimes teams have to suffer because of the actions of a teammate. What happens when a soccer player gets red carded and they have to play a man short the rest of the game? The team suffers for the actions of one player.

 

[Delmar]

I hate to agree with a gator but you are spot on. Elbows happen in basketball all the time, evidently that is not common knowledge to folks who have never played the game. Was it a cheap shot yes, but he was ejected from the game. He didn’t mean to hurt Fulkerson, and has already apologized. Some people just can’t let it go.

Did you come back with the same lame arse argument after you got pummeled in the other thread? Some people just never learn. You are a glutton for punishment for sure. And you are still dead wrong.

 

[Delmar]

I always thought Mike White was a good coach with some class. But I’ve lost a bunch of respect for his non-action here. Just another win-at-all-costs coach who won’t discipline his players for egregious actions. Evidently that Urban Meyer stink is still down there and it has rubbed off on him.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I always thought Mike White was a good coach with some class. But I’ve lost a bunch of respect for his non-action here. Just another win-at-all-costs coach who won’t discipline his players for egregious actions. Evidently that Urban Meyer stink is still down there and it has rubbed off on him.

Mike White has backed himself into a corner. He put Payne in for Castleton to be a thug. Suspending Payne for being a thug would be a bad look.

 

[steelejacs]

If I was Fulk I wouldn’t wait on a soul. I’d press my own assault charges

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

I hope whoever guards Payne plays tough as nails on him, not dirty but so dang tough he can't handle it. GBO!

 

[BigBadVol]

@lawgator1, I truly feel like you get an unfair shake here on VN a lot, but your last few posts have been beyond moronic. But I know you're not an idiot. Your last few comments reek of disingenuous.

100% correct. Trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[VolPack22]

I hate to agree with a gator but you are spot on. Elbows happen in basketball all the time, evidently that is not common knowledge to folks who have never played the game. Was it a cheap shot yes, but he was ejected from the game. He didn’t mean to hurt Fulkerson, and has already apologized. Some people just can’t let it go.

I’m sorry but I have to disagree with this. I played ball for years and anytime I got caught with an elbow in the face the opposing player immediately apologized. You know why? Because it’s inadvertent. You know when your elbow connects to someone’s head. If you are intentionally throwing elbows, you are throwing them in the mid torso area to send a message, not at the head. Payne knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[azvol03]

What do you want me to say? Payne was completely in the wrong and I think some sort of punishment is warranted. I'm just not sure what it ought to be and when it should be. A suspension right at the start of the NCAA tournament? That seems to just aim to defeat the team for the action of one player. I don't think anyone contends that Payne meant to cause as serious an injury as he did. In fact, I imagine that those kind of elbow throws occur in the course of many NCAA games but this one stands out because of the magnitude of the injury.

Is that a factor in punishment? Of course. But you can't let it dictate the sanction. Otherwise you overreact to this one to the detriment of all the other times when the intent is the same but no one particularly notices or cares because no injury resulted.

“I don't think anyone contends that Payne meant to cause as serious an injury as he did. In fact, I imagine that those kind of elbow throws occur in the course of many NCAA games but this one stands out because of the magnitude of the injury.”

I don’t believe I’ve ever said an unkind word to anyone on Volnation (as far as I can remember)...however, your entire post and specifically the above quote is the biggest, BS, apologetic malarkey I’ve read on this site in years. As an additional bonus: you’re unequivocally WRONG.

 

[lawgator1]

“I don't think anyone contends that Payne meant to cause as serious an injury as he did. In fact, I imagine that those kind of elbow throws occur in the course of many NCAA games but this one stands out because of the magnitude of the injury.”

I don’t believe I’ve ever said an unkind word to anyone on Volnation (as far as I can remember)...however, your entire post and specifically the above quote is the biggest, BS, apologetic malarkey I’ve read on this site in years. As an additional bonus: you’re unequivocally WRONG.

I had to like this post for use of "malarkey."

 

[VolArmy74]

Part of the blame goes to the officials. This was the very literal textbook definition of fighting in the NCAA rulebook for basketball and they didn't call it a flagrant 2/fighting. Had they done so the suspension is automatic, no appeal. But the refs were incredibly stupid and now Payne gets to play even though he committed a crime on national television. (There's case law that suggests that even though you can expect contact in sports you can't reasonably expect violent actions outside of normal game play and that such actions are indeed, criminal.)

 

[Voltopia]

Payne should be suspended. It is Florida's responsibility to send the message to Payne and to the rest of the players that represent their program that behavior like that is unacceptable. Taking multiple elbows at another team's player, knocking that out of the SEC tournament and possibly/probably the NCAA tournament, which in turn damaging that team's post-season prospects ... that is completely unacceptable and it should not be tolerated by anyone with authority in the matter. Had it been one elbow, I might feel differently, but he took the second shot and he swung with intent (whatever that intent might have been).

If Florida is too craven to suspend him -- that is, if they value having a better chance to win a few rounds in the NCAA tournament over doing the right thing -- then the SEC should step in and do it for them. It's mind-boggling to think that anyone would be comfortable with seeing Payne play in the post-season while Fulkerson, a kid who spent four years working his way to the forefront of the SEC, not to mention being a team leader, might have seen the door on his college careers slammed shut. Mind-boggling.

 

[robby487]

Now, can we fire someone else?

 

[Lankykong]

“I don't think anyone contends that Payne meant to cause as serious an injury as he did. In fact, I imagine that those kind of elbow throws occur in the course of many NCAA games but this one stands out because of the magnitude of the injury.”

I don’t believe I’ve ever said an unkind word to anyone on Volnation (as far as I can remember)...however, your entire post and specifically the above quote is the biggest, BS, apologetic malarkey I’ve read on this site in years. As an additional bonus: you’re unequivocally WRONG.

The post seems to admit that he meant to cause an injury also, (even if not as serious) which would be reason for suspension imo

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

On a hunch, I looked and see that Victor Bailey was called for a flagrant foul against a Missouri player when he wildly swiped duyring a dunk and essentially hit him in the face.



Now, that was not "intentional" in the sense that he did not intend to seriously injure the other player. Payne's is worse in that he intended to hit the Vols player. But its the same in the sense that it was in the heat of the game and there is no reason to think Payne wanted to actually hurt your player.

Did Bailey get suspended for the next game by UT? Is the dividing line injury? Is the dividing line one meant to hit the other player?

Be careful because I guarantee you there are incidents where UT players have intentionally struck or elbowed an opposing player, but no suspension followed because no one was hurt.

LMAO...the fact you are trying to equate what is clearly a play on the ball in one instance with what Payne did is possibly the most asinine take I have seen on this board (which is saying something). I hope you are not an atty in real life if this is the best "argument" you can come up with.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

I haven't really committed to the notion of him not being suspended. I'm torn on the issue. I see the logic of it, I do. But I also see the effect that would have on innocent third parties and that makes me pause.

Interesting how you are trying to quibble over intent when it is very clear to any reasonable person (let alone anyone who has played or watched basketball for any amount of time)...Payne did not like what happened under the basket so he DECIDED to let Fulky know that he was displeased. He then THREW not 1 but 2 elbows to get his message across. Trying to feign ignorance on intent is not only laughable - it is approaching clown status. The intent is painfully obvious and, after the decision to throw 2 elbows, Payne is responsible for whatever damage is inflicted (minor or, as we all know, major)...end of story.

 

[InVOLuntary]

What do you want me to say? Payne was completely in the wrong and I think some sort of punishment is warranted. I'm just not sure what it ought to be and when it should be. A suspension right at the start of the NCAA tournament? That seems to just aim to defeat the team for the action of one player. I don't think anyone contends that Payne meant to cause as serious an injury as he did. In fact, I imagine that those kind of elbow throws occur in the course of many NCAA games but this one stands out because of the magnitude of the injury.

Is that a factor in punishment? Of course. But you can't let it dictate the sanction. Otherwise you overreact to this one to the detriment of all the other times when the intent is the same but no one particularly notices or cares because no injury resulted.

What if he would have killed him?

 

[sechamp2012]

I think this has been subtly going on all year vs JF. I think the coaches looked at his last year's numbers and decided to tell their post to lean on him and fight for a position all game that usually means butts and elbows to the body. I don't think coaches are wanting elbows to the face but they're OK if it's to the ribs etc.. With JF losing about 20 pounds in the Covid span the word was louder get a body on him and pester him the whole game. The jostling for position is normal BB but right after a made basket by UT, Payne going down the court on offense & lays consecutive elbows to a trailing Fulk's face is out of the norms by a long shot. Think coaches have instructed players to rough JF up the whole game but Payne went beyond the subtle approach the coaches had in mind and it's just not Mike White this has been the norm in the SEC. That's why I have said we will fare much better in the NCAA with OOC teams the SEC coaches know how and what they can get away with in this conference.

 

[lastlap]

If the shoe was on the other foot I'd feel the same way you do.

But if the guy has apologized, admitted he was wrong in every respect, and the apology has been accepted, any "punishment" you theorize about is just retribution. That is sometimes its own goal, but is it worth it? Does that have any real value other than to make UT fans feel better?

It sets a standard that it will not be tolerated. By doing nothing you might as well say have at it boys.
I truly hope his apology was sincere and wasn’t just to try and get himself off the hook. Only he will ever know for sure. But yes it would be worth it.