Why does it matter if we fire him now?

[JMSqb11]

Effort isn't the problem. The team is still playing hard; they just aren't good. An interim isn't going to be able to change that.

I want Butch fired tonight as much as the next guy, but I will cheerfully admit that that's an emotional opinion based mostly on me wanting him out of my life as quickly as possible. Currie has a lot more things to think about. He was here in 2008 when we fired a coach in-season and lost to Wyoming later in the week.

If we run the ball 40-50 times vs Kentucky, we don’t lose that game. Butch would never do something like that because his system is infallible.

 

[VEKZY]

I believe that it would help salvage some of the recruiting class, but at the same time, it could do the opposite if a new coach isn't named quick enough.

 

[Freak]

Because if the decision to bring him fire him has been made, we stand to gain nothing by keeping him. At this point, he is far more likely to undo any good he has done in his 5 years than he is to do anything substantial enough to change his fate.

So your vote is that an assistant could better manage the team for the rest of the season?

Effort isn't the problem. The team is still playing hard; they just aren't good. An interim isn't going to be able to change that.

I want Butch fired tonight as much as the next guy, but I will cheerfully admit that that's an emotional opinion based mostly on me wanting him out of my life as quickly as possible. Currie has a lot more things to think about. He was here in 2008 when we fired a coach in-season and lost to Wyoming later in the week.

Agreed. I may just let you take over this thread.lol

I get what you are asking, but in all fairness there is alot skepticism with regard to the UTAD’s reactive stance when it comes to coaching hires.

To suggest that this isn’t a concern is false. If we absolutely knew John Currie had a short list of quality replacements he was working on, keeping Butch Jones for the next few games would not be a big deal to most of us. What most of us fear is that John Currie is getting sucked into this aweful mess of the “perfect timing” situation, ultimately losing focus on the importance of the matter, which is finding the best coach possible. Being REACTIVE instead of PROACTIVE is a huge issue at Tennessee, and timing is huge when it comes to making the right hire.

As a whole, Tennessee ADs of the past have been slow, reactive, and just plain poor when it comes to evaluating and hiring coaches across all sports in the program. It has been down right bad over the past 10 years.

Sound like yours is a concern about Currie rather than the timing of the fire.

All I can say is prove it. Before you totally lose the fan base and crap ton of money due to empty seats, fire Butch. It's not like he doesn't deserve it and it just might give people the impression you give a crap about UT and you're doing your job....

An assistant coached team will fill the seats? Besides, all of those fans will be back next year when Butch is gone, regardless of what happens the next few games.

 

[CAVPUT]

No if you start losing guys that are going to be part of that signing period you need as much time for the new coach to build that relationship. In a perfect world we would fire CBJ and the next day hire the new coach. But this is Tennessee and we will drag this out. Dooley was fired 2nd to last weekend of the season. We hired Butch something like December 7th or 8th. I believe early signing period is around mid-December? That doesn't leave a lot of time. And maybe the coach you hire want to recruit a different type of EE than our staff. IMO doesn't leave you a lot of time.

Unless the coach is currently unemployed, just how is he supposed to build said relationships? It's Kelly or Gruden for you then? As far as the early signees, nothing forces them to sign in December. If they want to wait until the dust settles at UT before making a decision, they can always sign in February. No one is forcing them to jump early.

 

[volnpowell]

Again, I fail to see how this is an issue.

Most coaches are still coaching. No one could take over right now anyway. Anyone still coaching probably won't have any serious discussions until the season is over, but you could move quickly at that point, if you choose to.

If you're targeting someone who isn't currently employed. It's still not going to be announced until after the last game.

Why couldn't they announce someone like Gruden or at least let "leaks" come flooding out that is who they will hire for recruiting purposes?

 

[Cartervol]

3-9 , 4-8. Although i get the feeling the towel as thrown in on the season several weeks back. When was the last time Tennessee didn't win a single SEC game? Pretty good possibility of being reality.

 

[Freak]

agreed. At this point, we're 30 days from the end of the season. People will lose their minds, but I don't see that it matters that much as long as they're working on the replacement and are ready to name him quickly.

Mod unity!!!!

If we run the ball 40-50 times vs Kentucky, we don’t lose that game. Butch would never do something like that because his system is infallible.

As usual, you're arguing a point no one is making.

 

[omghulkhands]

You can't hire or even announce an active coach until the season is over.

So my question is, how does firing him and having an interim until then improve recruiting?

 

[chiwipeterbug]

Recruiting is the lifeblood of college football.

We are losing in that department every day this drags out unless there are back channels to recruits.

If there are back channels to recruits about a BIG HIRE, why are they leaving our class?

 

[CoaxialOrange]

Unless the coach is currently unemployed, just how is he supposed to build said relationships? It's Kelly or Gruden for you then? As far as the early signees, nothing forces them to sign in December. If they want to wait until the dust settles at UT before making a decision, they can always sign in February. No one is forcing them to jump early.

Nothing forces them to wait on UT either. Not to mention current player transfers.

 

[Freak]

Why couldn't they announce someone like Gruden or at least let "leaks" come flooding out that is who they will hire for recruiting purposes?

Hopefully because Tennessee learned its lesson in 2010, that the long-term foundation of the program is much more important than losing a few recruits. Those kids who really want to be Vols will stick around long enough to see what happens. If they don't it's their loss.

 

[Vercingetorix]

If we run the ball 40-50 times vs Kentucky, we don’t lose that game. Butch would never do something like that because his system is infallible.

At this point in the season the offense is the offense. There isn't time to change much. You think if Butch isn't in the stadium Larry Scott will suddenly become a great playcaller?

 

[JMSqb11]

Mod unity!!!!

As usual, you're arguing a point no one is making.

Far from it. My point is that with Butch, we are gonna continue to get this vanilla offense. By firing him, you essentially allow each assistant to coach with freedom. And any sane coach sees our running game is the only thing we have working.

So, no, I am making a very valid point over why we should have already fired him. Especially given that “making a Bowl” is a big deal with this AD and admin.

 

[globadoc]

Not having a coach would keep people from decomittin?

Yep. Don't you think other coaches are already whispering in our recruits ears about the unclear situation? In addition, hiring a new coach now [the next step] may even allow him to study the recruiting landscape sooner, and possibly even get a headstart with establishing a rapport with recruits during the season. [Edit: This assumes the new coach is not from the area, nor familiar with this year's crop of available recruits for UT. Mayhaps I am presuming and hoping for an outsider like Kelly, Gruden (yeah, right), or Stoops.]

You think the timing of Butch's firing impacts the timing of the new hire?

I dunno. Serious question: Do all other coaches seriously entertain jobs where there is an unannounced vacancy? I know some won't publicly comment on such openings, but will they interview behind the scenes? In addition,

 

[m1al]

An assistant coached team will fill the seats? Besides, all of those fans will be back next year when Butch is gone, regardless of what happens the next few games.

He!! Freak I don't know. Do something even if it ain't right... Haaa..

Let me propose a scenario;

You are the AD. What do you do? You're options are:

1. Fire Butch tomorrow.
2. Fire Butch after NEXT loss.
3. Fire Butch at season end.

 

[volnpowell]

Hopefully because Tennessee learned its lesson in 2010, that the long-term foundation of the program is much more important than losing a few recruits. Those kids who really want to be Vols will stick around long enough to see what happens. If they don't it's their loss.

But if you know Gruden is your guy why not give him jump on things

 

[JMSqb11]

At this point in the season the offense is the offense. There isn't time to change much. You think if Butch isn't in the stadium Larry Scott will suddenly become a great playcaller?

I know our offense is at its floor with Butch on the sidelines. Firing him allows freedom to the coordinators.

 

[Race City Vol]

Because this team has enough talent to go to a bowl game but with Butch still there we can’t.

 

[Freak]

Nothing forces them to wait on UT either. Not to mention current player transfers.

With any coaching change there will be roster turnover. I just can't see how the next 30 days changes any of that, whether Butch is in charge or an interim.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Recruiting is the lifeblood of college football.

We are losing in that department every day this drags out unless there are back channels to recruits.

If there are back channels to recruits about a BIG HIRE, why are they leaving our class?

I thought that way too, and then...

December 20th or so is early signing day, right?

As long as UT names the new coach a week or two in advance, and if...if...it's a splash hire, the new coach has time to try to bring recruits back in to the fold. Odds are, regardless of who the new coach is, that we don't gain a bunch of recruits who were verbals to other schools. Unless, of course, the new coach brings them with him.

So...I'm in the "lost cow" category on that. Track 'em down, and bring 'em home. There will be time.

Go Vols.

 

[JMSqb11]

He!! Freak I don't know. Do something even if it ain't right... Haaa..

Let me propose a scenario;

You are the AD. What do you do? You're options are:

1. Fire Butch tomorrow.
2. Fire Butch after NEXT loss.
3. Fire Butch at season end.

Hell, we’d have 100K plus in the stands if Butch doesn’t coach LSU game.

 

[Old Geezer]

Firing Butch now is far less crucial than hiring Gruden.

 

[spyfish007]

I don't have to be conflicted about watching games anymore, meaning watching and secretly wanting the Vols to lose to end the nightmare that is occurring.

An assistant might not be so conservative or beholden to the infallible system. Maybe the assistant will take more chances and go for broke. Maybe their are favorite players that will not get to play just because of favoritism. Basically by removing him now you are selling the dream, kind of like O&W game in the spring.

Also I am sure the negative recruiting is in full effect. What if they bring him back next year? What if they fire him next year which surely they will do? I can keep going.....

 

[GAVol]

I know our offense is at its floor with Butch on the sidelines. Firing him allows freedom to the coordinators.

8 weeks in, I don't think we're going to playcall our way out of this.

 

[Vol737]

A little short term pain for long term gain is acceptable. I don't think it really matters if they cut him loose now or at season's end. Everyone knows the decision has been made. Now, had he been a two or three time SEC championship winning coach and a Natty or two under his belt and had a bad season or two, then maybe you consider your move more carefully, but he's not. Hire the right guy and the recruiting class will be back in shape.