Why do people think firing coaches is the answer?

[ajvol01]

Yes. Our situation is not comparable to Auburns. A better comparison is Ole Miss.

Except that Hugh Freeze recruited & coached Bo Wallace at Arky State.

That is 1 significant advantage.

 

[sjt18]

It doesn't to appear to have hampered his recruiting yet. He has some very promising recruit commitments out to 2016 and 2017.

Verbal commitments that far out aren't secure things. If the "dreams" don't start to come true... rival recruiters will start picking those guys off.

Do you live up to the same standard as you hold the UT coach?

Different line of business but yes I have very high expectations and manage one of the most successful units in my company. It was not that way when I got here.

Have you enjoyed more success?

I've enjoyed both success and failure. In almost any endeavor a lack of early success even if it is something relatively small will inhibit ultimate success. My company just fired a mgr who had been on the job less than a year. He had a great, not good, resume. He took over a struggling unit. His plan in as much as he had one did not produce early success. He was not able to generate "momentum" and ultimately didn't get the expected results.

Fair? I don't know. Probably not. He was handicapped in a number of ways... but he didn't deal with those handicaps effectively and THAT above all else was his challenge.

Jones faced and faces some tough issues to deal with... and it is HIS job to prove he can deal with them and win games.

If not, who are you to call for his job?

I'm not calling for his job... just saying what SHOULD cost him his job if he doesn't meet expectations. I hope he exceeds all expectations. I like him and am pulling for him. But so far... he's not on the right trajectory to take UT to championships and maybe not even to pull out of the hole.

There are more successful coaches that took several years to get their teams on top than those that have done it in a year or two.

On top? Yes. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about first making some progress getting off the bottom. We're talking about being "mediocre" again with 7-9 wins.... that's simply not a bar too high for the first 3 years.

 

[sjt18]

Except that Hugh Freeze recruited & coached Bo Wallace at Arky State.

That is 1 significant advantage.

Jones recruited Peterman while at Cincy and signed Dobbs at UT. He has now coached Worley for two years. Any advantage... is pretty much mitigated by now.

 

[butchna]

I don't think there's any substance behind his cliches and gimmicks. Our ceiling as a program is being in the playoff discussion on a consistent basis, winning it all every 40 years or so.

You're a clown...you qualify as worst Vol fan ever.. Gargle water.

 

[sjt18]

Here's another question. If you were a four or five star prospect, would you sign with a team that you thought would be firing or changing coaches in a couple years?

No. Nor would I sign with a coach who had been at a program for 2 or 3 years without improving that team's record.

The best recruits want to play for winning coaches.

And fwiw, rival recruiters are going to suggest that a coach will be fired if he isn't winning even if the AD says he won't be. Recruits have seen that before.

Winning=coach's job security.

 

[sjt18]

Coaches can do only do so much by scheming and strategy.

That's true... but it can and should be the difference in a game or two per year, right? It has not been the difference in any game so far this year in a positive way. You could even argue that the bumbling fool that is about to get fired at UF outschemed and out strategized UT...

 

[T-for-Tennessee]

He won 9 games in year two at a program that had had 1 winning season in the previous 9. They didn't have to be too patient. He gave them reason to hope almost right away.


I think the first point where you really sit and consider that is after next season at the earliest. The wins between now and then should be the evaluation tool.

Six or 7 this year then say 8 or 9 next year while competing for the East... and I'd be pretty satisfied. That would be progress that points to possible championships in the future. A losing season this year followed by a 6 or 7 win season next fall would suggest the opposite.

On that we can agree. 8 or 9 wins next year would ease the pain. As for this year, I'm kickin' that can down the road.

 

[MedicT]

That's true... but it can and should be the difference in a game or two per year, right? It has not been the difference in any game so far this year in a positive way. You could even argue that the bumbling fool that is about to get fired at UF outschemed and out strategized UT...

You mean the bumbling fool that proved your theory that a solid coach will turn a program around during his second year?

 

[Volfan2012]

You only start firing coaches after they have been on the job four years and your still not doing well at their positions. All these guys are only in their second year they need two more years to get their players and systems to working. If after four years any position on the football team is way underachieving then your head man must make a change. If after four seasons still not going to a bowl game then you need to look at another head coach. Butch still has this and two full seasons to get the program to winning.

 

[sjt18]

Isn't he competing against other highly paid coaches, some of which have better and more experienced players?

So you are saying he should have lost to Vandy last fall and UF this year? Muschamp beat him without an offense... think about that. Jones has lost to the two worst UF teams in the last 25 years.

To answer your question directly, this season ends with 4 opponents who have less talent and only marginally better experience if that. UT and Mizzou are VERY close with regard to experience... but UT is much more talented in terms of raw athleticism. All 4 of those opponents are in the bottom half of the SEC in most statistical categories. They rank 8, 9, 13, and 14 in scoring D... and I doubt UK is 9th after playing MSU today.

 

[rockytop114]

There is a Facebook page and other sites that have posters that want him gone. They always want somebody gone though.

That's just dumb I want stability like we did with majors and Fulmer like the steelers do. If they give Butch time he will win us a championship what bothers me is when everyone starts bad talking the coaches it affects recruiting cause they read this other teams use this Against us then we have are on fans hurting us.

 

[sjt18]

You mean the bumbling fool that proved your theory that a solid coach will turn a program around during his second year?

Explain.

I have not said that every coach that improves a team's record in the first two years ends up successful. I HAVE said that few if any coaches that do not improve the team's record within the first two years succeed.

I hope I said that clearly enough for you to understand the distinction I am making.

 

[sjt18]

You mean the bumbling fool that proved your theory that a solid coach will turn a program around during his second year?

BTW, I was very wrong about UF. I looked at their remaining schedule and thought that even Muschamp couldn't screw it up... then he did. I expected them to win the East and save his job. That's almost certain not to happen now.

I was wrong on that count. That may not be a bad thing though... Jones doesn't seem to be able to beat Muschamp even when everyone else does.

 

[MedicT]

Explain.

I have not said that every coach that improves a team's record in the first two years ends up successful. I HAVE said that few if any coaches that do not improve the team's record within the first two years succeed.

I hope I said that clearly enough for you to understand the distinction I am making.

Oh I think I understand your intent very well. Just thought I would point out that you ALMOST backed into a corner with your statement.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

But back to your thread, I don't think it's motivation this football team needs. I think it's offensive line/quarterback/play callers.

This! Right now it really IS about the "Jimmy's" and "Joes."

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

I honestly think this is one of the dumbest trends of this generation. Hire a coach, if he's not winning 8 games by year 2 then fire him or he's on the hot seat for year 3. If he's not in the SEC championship game by year 3 then fire him. Perhaps there's a bit of hyperbole there, but I don't get it. Now Dooley, you could see the obvious writing on the wall midway through year 3, maybe earlier, but as long as you're not seeing the team quitting and we're recruiting well, why would you even consider that? Yeah it may take 4 or 5 years but you'd be waiting that long or longer anyway if we fired our coach. I realize I'm probably talking to a small portion of the fan base, but still, it baffles me how anybody could be that stupid. Yeah, maybe we'll just have to suffer through this year, and wait til next year or maybe even 2016, but I don't see why people want to start all over again, and again, and again. Look at Mullen at Miss St and Spurrier at South Carolina. They got over that hump and it took longer than 2 or 3 years. Not all rebuilding jobs are the same. Unless we missed a bowl this year and next you won't hear me clamoring for Butch's head. Patience will pay off with this staff. Maybe an amendment or two needs to be made after next year, but give them a chance to get 2 or 3 classes of their guys first. GBO

Please stop using Mullen as an example of it taking time. It took him all of 2 seasons to turn MSU into a 9 win, top 25 bowl team. That completely dispels your point.

Spurrier won 7 games and beat UT and UF his first year and he's light years ahead of Butch anyways so he's a poor example to use from the get go.

And if you think top 5 classes will hold up if we continue to go 5-7 then you're as naive as you appear to be. Butch has to turn these recruiting wins into game wins or the recruiting wins will stop coming. Look at Muschamp right now. He's a hell of a recruiter, it's UF and they've had more recent succeess yet he's sitting in the 50's and is losing guys right and left. Who wants to lose to Ga Southern?

 

[UTFootballFan]

Verbal commitments that far out aren't secure things. If the "dreams" don't start to come true... rival recruiters will start picking those guys off.

Different line of business but yes I have very high expectations and manage one of the most successful units in my company. It was not that way when I got here.

I've enjoyed both success and failure. In almost any endeavor a lack of early success even if it is something relatively small will inhibit ultimate success. My company just fired a mgr who had been on the job less than a year. He had a great, not good, resume. He took over a struggling unit. His plan in as much as he had one did not produce early success. He was not able to generate "momentum" and ultimately didn't get the expected results.

Fair? I don't know. Probably not. He was handicapped in a number of ways... but he didn't deal with those handicaps effectively and THAT above all else was his challenge.

Jones faced and faces some tough issues to deal with... and it is HIS job to prove he can deal with them and win games.

I'm not calling for his job... just saying what SHOULD cost him his job if he doesn't meet expectations. I hope he exceeds all expectations. I like him and am pulling for him. But so far... he's not on the right trajectory to take UT to championships and maybe not even to pull out of the hole.

On top? Yes. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about first making some progress getting off the bottom. We're talking about being "mediocre" again with 7-9 wins.... that's simply not a bar too high for the first 3 years.

Get back to me when you've turned an entire COMPANY, not just a unit, around in two years and made them profitable after several years of losing money.

Throw in living and operating in a bubble such as a coach of a big time football program does with all the internet experts criticizing virtually every aspect of what you are doing.

Until then, you are just another internet expert with little credibility.

 

[HBCButch]

I honestly think this is one of the dumbest trends of this generation. Hire a coach, if he's not winning 8 games by year 2 then fire him or he's on the hot seat for year 3. If he's not in the SEC championship game by year 3 then fire him. Perhaps there's a bit of hyperbole there, but I don't get it. Now Dooley, you could see the obvious writing on the wall midway through year 3, maybe earlier, but as long as you're not seeing the team quitting and we're recruiting well, why would you even consider that? Yeah it may take 4 or 5 years but you'd be waiting that long or longer anyway if we fired our coach. I realize I'm probably talking to a small portion of the fan base, but still, it baffles me how anybody could be that stupid. Yeah, maybe we'll just have to suffer through this year, and wait til next year or maybe even 2016, but I don't see why people want to start all over again, and again, and again. Look at Mullen at Miss St and Spurrier at South Carolina. They got over that hump and it took longer than 2 or 3 years. Not all rebuilding jobs are the same. Unless we missed a bowl this year and next you won't hear me clamoring for Butch's head. Patience will pay off with this staff. Maybe an amendment or two needs to be made after next year, but give them a chance to get 2 or 3 classes of their guys first. GBO

It's not like that everywhere. Just in places where the fans expectations are completely unrealistic. Like at UT for instance. We actually have a lot of fans who think in year 2, and only one class that's truly his, Butch should be beating teams that have had the same coaches for years and have recruited well for years. And starting from practically ground zero on top of that. Does'nt work like that. May be year 4 before we start to see UT dominating games and not just 'hoping' to win.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

The last three fired got us to the point where we could hire Jones. Now that we have the coach that will lead us back, we can hide the firing hammer for the next 10-15 years. We are on our way back. Enjoy the ride which will plane out at the top in 2016-2017. I can wait for this to happen rather than hire 4 more coaches over the next 6 years.

 

[Volnut]

It's an instant gratification society today. Produce now or get out. It happens in business, coaching, sales, etc. etc....

Just think of the long list of coaches from the past that would have never made their glory. The first to come to mind is Tom Landry. They wanted him out during his first 5 seasons and then when he started winning, they said he couldn't win the big one.

Where would Michigan be today if they had given Rich Rod a little more time??

 

[ajvol01]

You mean the bumbling fool that proved your theory that a solid coach will turn a program around during his second year?

Muschamp?

lol:

 

[Deputy Fife]

he's nothing but a cliché coach with big east coaching abilities.

Agreed

 

[photovol]

Tennessee Vol's need to get the Jimmy's and the Joe's to win both lines of scrimage....Worley is serviceable and could win given some protection.
Offensive line is a joke and I personally think Butch could have paid more attention to Oline, knowing 2 years ahead that he would lose his entire Oline in 2013.....Butch failed badly here or Mahoney....Butch!

 

[TGVol]

Because they want a coach with a 0 in the loss column vs Florida/Georgia/Bama first year.

Then Butch is getting preferential treatment because he is about to be 0-6 in his first 2 years. Even bigger issue for Butch is that two of those loses are against the worst teams in UF history.

 

[Shawn23]

This team needs a new offensive scheme. This read option that only ever goes to the RB's is horrible. Our play calling is so predictable.