Where is this football program, in your mind?

#176
#176
BeecherVol said:
SMU was terrible the season before he got there. The 5-6 years prior they were pretty much between 5-8 wins which is where he got em back to after a year. Ironically.

Yes. They did with Bieliema.

Bert was a great hire on paper. He wasnt able to change their position in the west and they end up with Morris (a substantially less decorated coach) because a once highly successful guy failed in a tough league. If he struggled to gain traction against Bama, LSU, AU, and A&M who else are they gonna attract.

On a side note of interest.
Bret left at 4-8
Morris comes in at 2-10

Bret left losing 3 straight but was relatively competitive losing by an average of 11 points.

Morris lost to the same 3 teams by an average of 30.
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You think they beat tennessee h2h? I do.
 
#177
#177
volfannbama said:
You think they beat tennessee h2h? I do.
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No.

Arkansas only 2 wins come over Eastern Illinois (3-8) and Tulsa (3-9).
UTs 2 best wins come over AU (7-5) and UK (9-3)

I think UTs best football would beat the best Arkansas produced this year by a couple scores.

Arkansas went backwards in year 1 under Morris. UT was better even with a terrible finish.
 
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#178
#178
BeecherVol said:
No.

Arkansas only 2 wins come over Eastern Illinois (3-8) and Tulsa (3-9).
UTs 2 best wins come over AU (7-5) and UK (9-3)

I think UTs best football would beat the best Arkansas produced this year by a couple scores.

Arkansas went backwards in year 1 under Morris. UT was better even with a terrible finish.
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Ok, I think we would shy away from their physicality. But just like I told the other guy, we are still arguing about last/ next to last. When considering all things, a valid argument can be made either way and our expectations are higher than theirs, so we have further to go.
 
#179
#179
volfannbama said:
Ok, I think we would shy away from their physicality. But just like I told the other guy, we are still arguing about last/ next to last. When considering all things, a valid argument can be made either way and our expectations are higher than theirs, so we have further to go.
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I dont see a valid argument where a 2-10 Arkansas team is better or even equal to a 5-7 UT.

They lost to a 3-9 Colorado St team and North Texas.
We can talk about characteristics til we re blue in the face but the records are what they are.

The historical expectations are irrelevant right now. UT was 4-8 last year (historically their worst team)
Arkansas was 4-8 as well. Both fired and hired and a year later UT is a game better and Arkansas is 2 worse. Having farther to go to get to both historical expectations tells you UT was farther away from that after the band guy, than Arky is after Bert. UT moved up, Arky went the other way.

You cant twist that to mean anything but what it is.
 
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#180
#180
BeecherVol said:
I dont see a valid argument where a 2-10 Arkansas team is better or even equal to a 5-7 UT.

They lost to a 3-9 Colorado St team and North Texas.
We can talk about characteristics til we re blue in the face but the records are what they are.

The historical expectations are irrelevant right now. UT was 4-8 last year (historically their worst team)
Arkansas was 4-8 as well. Both fired and hired and a year later UT is a game better and Arkansas is 2 worse. Having farther to go to get to both historical expectations tells you UT was farther away from that after the band guy, than Arky is after Bert. UT moved up, Arky went the other way.

You cant twist that to mean anything but what it is.
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I didnt say the team is better, we were talking about the program as a whole, admin etc.
 
#184
#184
kbear01 said:
I've followed UT since the early 70's. I've seen it rise, fall, rise, and fall again. I've cursed, alot. But, I've endured. Along the way, I've tracked the progress of other programs, as well. In my mind, the program is at the same level as a 1980's Ole Miss or Kentucky, or at the same level it was when Johnny Majors took over, as HC. We haven't fallen to the 80's Vandy level, yet. It took quite a while to get bowl eligible, and even longer to get to a consistently respectable level. Probably 6-7 years, if memory serves me, to being consistently respectable.
We have some talent. But, it wasn't developed, and it is not "The right talent". Depth in the trenches, not there. No game-breakers, at wideout. QB is not a good position on this team, either.

Thoughts?
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#185
#185
volfannbama said:
We were talking about the program as a whole first. But I believe they would beat us h2h
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Gotcha.

I didnt see anything from Arkansas that I could draw that conclusion with. In fact it's pretty much the opposite for me.

As crazy as this place was after Vandy, I'm wondering what hog nation was like after firing Bret and his replacement outdoing him to the bad by 2 games.
 
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#186
#186
Worst in the SEC, second to the worst in the SEC - No matter how you look at it, we're at the bottom of the barrel of the SEC.

We've sadly become an irrelevant program that when the rest of the country hears "Tennessee football," or sees us getting smacked around by Florida or Alabama, they probably wonder what the hell happened to this program.

The only thing that gives me hope these days whenever I feel down about the state of this program is that I remember where Alabama was before Nick Saban or where USC was before Pete Carroll. They were considered dead and irrelevant programs too.

So there's that, I guess.
 
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#187
#187
Exactly where it was when Kiffin screwed us I said it would set us back 5 years but it seems like maybe it will be 15. If he had stayed I believe we would have already been back as a power team in the sec. he knew how to always stick TN out there and it helped w recruiting. Out of what we have had here lately he was head and shoulders above anything else. The decline started with Fulmer it was like a roller coaster waiting to hit the big downhill part and him leaving just pushed us over the edge.
 
#188
#188
Phillip Fulmer taking over as ad is the turning point. Our trajectory is heading up, and we will be competing again sooner rather than later. Fulmer knows what it takes to win football games, unlike his predecessors who were clueless.
 
#189
#189
5-7. That’s where the football program is right now. Averaging 4.5 wins in the last two seasons. A football team is what it’s record says it is. It’s not nebulous.

And literally no one knows, for sure, what the record will be in 2 or 3 years.
 
#192
#192
Talent? Wisconsin's classes are 35...34....35...35 last 4g years. They had an off year this year but still winning season. I use them as example. They almost made cfb playoffs last few years with less talent than we have. Its coaching....and running program the right way. No way we should be as bad as we have been. Pruitt showed some promise then pizzed it all away those last 2 games.
 
#193
#193
We'll never fall to "vandy or ky" levels. Our tradition and facilities are too good. This team year in and out will pull top 15 classes. TN is a fringe top 10 all time program. The difference in having it rolling and having a great coach is the difference between the no14-16 recruiting class and no1-3. The right guy makes all the difference. And unfortunately I just don't think we got the right guy. I hope I'm wrong. But there's no reason we don't get inside the top 10 in recruiting this year. And we're not there currently
 
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#195
#195
GetYouSomeofThat said:
Dont think this football program s spreading too much damage either. Much like a dumpster fire it seems to be contained unto itself. Also like a dumpster fire just when you think the fire is out the smoldering embers turn itno another flaming bag of ****.

So IMO dumpster fire is a perfectly fine analogy.
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I don't disagree with you, that it's a fine analogy for the current situation. I just think that when many people use the term, they misuse it, intending to say that things are very very bad indeed.
 
#200
#200
Special Ed said:
Inside my cerebral hemisphere, the program has been overtaxing my amygdala for the past several years.
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