Wait til Butch gets his own players

[rocky top buzz]

Dan Mullen was 9-4 in year two. Very few people are calling for CBJ to be fired, but unfortunately there are major issues with the offense that go much deeper than youth (we weren't that young last year on O).

I didn't reference Dan Mullen's second year, I said last year when he was 7-6 and the knock on him was always that he couldn't beat a team that finished with a winning record. Yes they were calling for his head last year.

As far as last years o-line, based on the way they played last year and the results of the NFL draft I would say they were over-rated. This years o-line starting 5 are good, but they lack depth and experience which shows up late in drives. That will improve with additional recruiting classes.

 

[rocky top buzz]

And lets be honest, forget Florida and you realize that Tennessee has lost to 3 top 10 teams. Really it is the Florida game that hurts so much for so many reasons. Looking at today's performance by Mizzou doesn't help that feeling.

 

[chidave]

Two were drafted, people much smarter than either of us though they were pretty good.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

I didn't reference Dan Mullen's second year, I said last year when he was 7-6 and the knock on him was always that he couldn't beat a team that finished with a winning record. Yes they were calling for his head last year.

As far as last years o-line, based on the way they played last year and the results of the NFL draft I would say they were over-rated. This years o-line starting 5 are good, but they lack depth and experience which shows up late in drives. That will improve with additional recruiting classes.

Why would you fire a guy that has proven he can win 8-9 games at a school where that's typically their ceiling? Plus Mullen is in a tougher division than UT. Mullen 5 yrs in is irrelevant to Butch 2 yrs in, a first 2 yr comparison is fair and Mullen wins that.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

You might want to look up that fine Houston Nutt recruiting before you say that

You might want to compare HC records between the two. There is a HUGE difference.

 

[rocky top buzz]

Dan Mullen won 9 games his 2nd year. I'm sure he walked into a better situation too? Ironically every coach who walked in and won in yr 1 or 2 somehow had a better situation handed to them than Butch did, despite things being bad enough that administrations felt it necessary to fire the previous regimes. The drunken koolaid excuses are becoming ridiculous.

Yes for example Gus Malzahn didn't walk into a good situation at Auburn. Obviously the roster was terrible which is why Chizik was fired but somehow Malzahn was able to turn all of those 1 and 2 stars into SEC champions last year...

Seriously, if the fact that UT was the only school that had to replace every starter on BOTH their O and D lines, if that doesn't tell you how bad of shape this roster was sin, nothing will.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

And lets be honest, forget Florida and you realize that Tennessee has lost to 3 top 10 teams. Really it is the Florida game that hurts so much for so many reasons. Looking at today's performance by Mizzou doesn't help that feeling.

At the time they were top 10. OU will be lucky if they're top 15 Monday and they can lose a few more.

 

[rocky top buzz]

Two were drafted, people much smarter than either of us though they were pretty good.

Yup those guys are geniuses. Remind me again when is Ryan Leaf going into the hall of fame?

I'm not going to beat on former players, but fact is the O-Line was not the strength it should have been last year and you cannot blame Butch for that.

 

[chidave]

And lets be honest, forget Florida and you realize that Tennessee has lost to 3 top 10 teams. Really it is the Florida game that hurts so much for so many reasons. Looking at today's performance by Mizzou doesn't help that feeling.

Our schedule has been tough, but Oklahoma has two losses, UF was obliterated at home by a Mizzou team that lost to Indiana at home. We made an OU D that has been getting shredded by Big 12 teams look like the return of the Steel Curtain!

With the exception of the Florida loss (they are likely a 5-7 team), I don't really fault us for losing any of the games we have. The offense however....for all the good things CBJ has done here, the offensive problems if they are not addressed (and yes scheme is a major part of this) will make his ceiling be at 7-5, 8-4.

In the SEC, you need Xs and Os along with Joes to win...he has shown he can get the latter, but after a year and a half he has not demonstrated he has the former.

 

[chidave]

Yup those guys are geniuses. Remind me again when is Ryan Leaf going into the hall of fame?

I'm not going to beat on former players, but fact is the O-Line was not the strength it should have been last year and you cannot blame Butch for that.

Who else are you going to blame? His coordinator designed the blocking scheme that had them struggling, when they did not struggle at all the year before.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Yes for example Gus Malzahn didn't walk into a good situation at Auburn. Obviously the roster was terrible which is why Chizik was fired but somehow Malzahn was able to turn all of those 1 and 2 stars into SEC champions last year...

Seriously, if the fact that UT was the only school that had to replace every starter on BOTH their O and D lines, if that doesn't tell you how bad of shape this roster was sin, nothing will.

They replaced both lines cause they were SR's. How does that mean the roster is in bad shape? Just means SR's were better than Jr's, therefore they started last year, now So and Jr step in.

And I'm guessing you were being facetious about Gus cause that's absolutely the only situation that was better than Butch's when he walked in. Mullen's wasn't, Freeze's wasn't, Saban's at Bama wasn't, Stoops at UK wasn't, Franklin's wasn't. On paper, UT had more talent when Butch took over than all of those guys. Development is another issue. That's where Dooley failed and Butch hasn't done much better. The other coaches listed all improved the talent they inherited.

 

[chidave]

Yup those guys are geniuses. Remind me again when is Ryan Leaf going into the hall of fame?

I'm not going to beat on former players, but fact is the O-Line was not the strength it should have been last year and you cannot blame Butch for that.

They are right more often than they are wrong, and they did draft Manning ahead of Leaf. Also...Tiny wasn't drafted but did make the Vikings team, so there's a team with 3 NFL lineman that couldn't get it done.

Butch absolutely can get the job done here, but only if changes are made on offense. We've had a great line with young skill people, and a young line with good skill people...and both of those combinations have resulted in horrific offenses. It's not going to be very often that a program is senior laden at all positions on the O.

Evaluating coaching...is simple to me. Just ask yourself one question "Is he putting the guys he has in the best position to succeed?" After a year and half...the answer on D is yes...but on O I don't know how you can believe it is anything but no.

 

[JacketVol]

So that'll be next year? Year 3 should be pretty much your own guys. If Butch doesn't have a QB and a line ready by year three, it's on him

He has one class that he has recruited from day one after a signing period. This Feb will be class 2. The first class you speak of had some of his guys that he recruited at the last minute but not a full class of his guys. They will not be all of his guys till he has been here four years. This is why he gets five years unless something real crazy happens. This year is not over yet so you can't count it as crazy.

 

[JacketVol]

Those of you who are acting like this is Dooley 2.0, you are absurd. Look at recruiting, and the relationships with HS coaches and former players. Everyone loves this guys and people who know football knew this was going to be a tough year.

Me personally, I think this team is a quarterback away from success. Not a shot at Woorley, I just don't think he can cut it in this fast tempo. I find myself constantly counting down and yelling "throw the ball" at the TV only to see him hold it too long and take a sack, fumble, or try to scramble and end up throwing a pick. Improvement along the eO-Line will help whoever the next QB is.

I was dis-appointed in the play selection tonight, it just seemed like anytime UT did something that worked, they went away from it. Football is such a momentum-driven game it just seems like these guys make a few good plays but cannot build on it.

Worley holds the ball for way too long. I was at the first game and despite the score and everyone praising the new Worley, I still have the text to friends saying he is still holding it too long. He is fine if he had a line that could make sure he never got touched. That is not what we have. He is not very good and he had three turnovers and that gave us ZERO chance to do anything in that game. Also, you should never have freshmen playing on the OL. Guys should have a minimum of two years in the program before they are even in the 2 deep. That is what elite teams do. Dools classes were ranked decent because of all the skill guys he took. He killed us with the DL and OL recruits or lack thereof.

I got ticked off tonight at the same thing that seems to keep happening. Something works then we must try something different. Keep doing it till they show they can stop it. Got to give them time and if they fail then they fail. Otherwise, you have certain failure for a very long time.

 

[JacketVol]

23 True FR are playing plus North who he recruited, Pearson, Dobbs, and many others. But he has his players here no doubt.

On an elite team, those 23 of HIS players would not yet be on the field but developing in the weight room with S and C coach.

 

[spursvols&niners]

The Dooley recruits are the who are older so it makes sense for them to be playing more. He shouldn't change his system now because the freshmen (his players) are the ones best fit for the system and they need the time to learn it. Changing the system half way through the season is just stupid maybe simplify but don't just throw it out the window.

 

[spursvols&niners]

They replaced both lines cause they were SR's. How does that mean the roster is in bad shape? Just means SR's were better than Jr's, therefore they started last year, now So and Jr step in.

And I'm guessing you were being facetious about Gus cause that's absolutely the only situation that was better than Butch's when he walked in. Mullen's wasn't, Freeze's wasn't, Saban's at Bama wasn't, Stoops at UK wasn't, Franklin's wasn't. On paper, UT had more talent when Butch took over than all of those guys. Development is another issue. That's where Dooley failed and Butch hasn't done much better. The other coaches listed all improved the talent they inherited.

So I guess AJ Johnson was always this good he didn't need to be developed.

 

[sjt18]

Worley holds the ball for way too long. .

I think it has something to do with the fact that D's can get pressure with 3 and drop 8. You know... you have to have someone breaking open before you can throw it.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

they replaced both lines cause they were sr's. How does that mean the roster is in bad shape? Just means sr's were better than jr's, therefore they started last year, now so and jr step in.

And i'm guessing you were being facetious about gus cause that's absolutely the only situation that was better than butch's when he walked in. Mullen's wasn't, freeze's wasn't, saban's at bama wasn't, stoops at uk wasn't, franklin's wasn't. On paper, ut had more talent when butch took over than all of those guys. Development is another issue. That's where dooley failed and butch hasn't done much better. The other coaches listed all improved the talent they inherited.

bullllll ****!

 

[spursvols&niners]

Worley holds the ball for way too long. I was at the first game and despite the score and everyone praising the new Worley, I still have the text to friends saying he is still holding it too long. He is fine if he had a line that could make sure he never got touched. That is not what we have. He is not very good and he had three turnovers and that gave us ZERO chance to do anything in that game. Also, you should never have freshmen playing on the OL. Guys should have a minimum of two years in the program before they are even in the 2 deep. That is what elite teams do. Dools classes were ranked decent because of all the skill guys he took. He killed us with the DL and OL recruits or lack thereof.

I got ticked off tonight at the same thing that seems to keep happening. Something works then we must try something different. Keep doing it till they show they can stop it. Got to give them time and if they fail then they fail. Otherwise, you have certain failure for a very long time.

Worley is a good QB. He would have to have speed like Manziel to do much right now behind this line

 

[oregonvol]

I will not judge Butch til he gets his OWN team out here. He has only recruited the freshman that are playing their heart out there. Yes the O line is terrible but remember Dooley recruited this garbage. I think Butch is man for the job but we have to be patient. Yea we are more and likely gonna get run over by Saban but we have to be content with what we have. We have a MUCH easier schedule next year and another top 5 class coming in.

What has Butch demonstrated in his career that would lead you to conclude that he will succeed with all his own players? Has he ever been at a school more than 3 years?

And since we don't count the first class of a coach (for some reason, it appears that all the excusavols have decided this is now the case, though it makes little sense to me), then I guess he only signed two classes at Central Michigan and Cincinnati, and anyone other than the freshmen and sophomores he had his last year at those schools were another coach's players.

 

[volsallday21]

I agree that they are are good football team, but when you come out and do some good things on offense, you should keep doing it until it opens the door for other plays. 1.We went 5 wide, no backs and threw something quick and never did it again. 2.Ran a play action zone read with a pass to a slanting WR once. 3. Threw to our TE the first offensive play we ran and never did it again. 4.Had several passes thrown in 2-3 seconds...that needs to happen every time we pass and that takes care of bad OL play.

I just think the OC out guesses himself way too much and tries to trick the D instead of staying with what works. JMO!

He could call the same play every time and it would produce a different outcome. While the blame may fall on the play calling it could also fall on the players. We all have seen that Worley has made some questionable decision when throwing the ball. I was not in the booth and believe no one else on vs was either. All we can do is speculate what happened. From what I have seen this year I will have to go with the decision making part. Worley played great against UGA the past two years. If he plays well against USC again then we can assume he plays well against those teams. Every other power conference school is a different story. Hope I am wrong and he comes out on fire the rest of the season. He is our QB and I will support him.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

So I guess AJ Johnson was always this good he didn't need to be developed.

So some say Dooley didn't recruit, some say the players just suck despite his/and Butch's superb coaching and some say coaches haven't developed players. I'm trying to prove that player skill, at least on paper, when Butch took the job was not as bad as some are making it out to be. Yes, AJ has improved over the years due to coaching, maturation and effort but the guy has been solid from day 1. He had 80 tackles or so his FR year and 100+ his SO year, I'd say he was always pretty good from the get go.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

bullllll ****!

Shula's classes were 30, 49, 24, 18 and 11 before Saban. He had 3 .500 or less seasons out of 4 including a 9 loss season. Id argue the roster was not stacked yet Saban's '08 team (his 2nd) managed to play for an SEC championship playing numerous FR and JUCO's.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

What has Butch demonstrated in his career that would lead you to conclude that he will succeed with all his own players? Has he ever been at a school more than 3 years?

And since we don't count the first class of a coach (for some reason, it appears that all the excusavols have decided this is now the case, though it makes little sense to me), then I guess he only signed two classes at Central Michigan and Cincinnati, and anyone other than the freshmen and sophomores he had his last year at those schools were another coach's players.

This is a very interesting point that you've raised. Has Butch ever had to win with ONLY his guys? It doesn't appear so. And when he's followed a guy thats had the success that BK has it makes you wonder how much of Butch's success is owed to his predecessor and what, if any, kind of imprint did Butch really have on those CMU and Cincy teams? We may have bought fools gold. Guess we'll find out.