Update on new strength coach

[Ari Silverstein]

You've got a very limited understanding of the human body. For example, studying MLB pitchers, researchers have found that they have reached their limit as far as how fast they can pitch, and they come in every shape, race, and color known to man. The limit is not how strong they are, or how big they are, its their tendons and ligaments that can't go any further. No way known yet to strengthen those.

The studies you mention, which btw are not qualified clinicals, make no claims as to what the maximum velocity the human body can achieve. Because they haven't a clue.

I would agree that the incremental velocity gains we can expect in the future are, er, incremental...i.e. as a percentage of potential max velocity.

To your point re: the strengthening of tendons and ligaments, strength and power training increases their capacity to handle the loads generated on and about joints and at muscular end points. If they did not, then we would see an explosion of injuries in the weight room and on the field.

So from one study group, with genetics all over the place, the group as a whole has reached a limit of efficiency. They all got to that limit with extensive training, not because they are genetic freaks.
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Possibly both, I don't know the study you are mentioning but throwing a baseball over 100 mph may well require genetic freakness.

Last comment. The throwing of a baseball, the fastest motion of any limb on the human body, ime, improves only fractionally in the mature athlete regardless of strength training or power training regimen. This has been my experience with more F1s than I can count.

Pitching velocity is influenced predominantly by genetics as does foot speed and other related power adaptive activities.

 

[Ari Silverstein]

does this mean they are working out like the 3 amigos?

Less or more.

Muchas Gratias.

:whistling:

 

[Lofton/Durant4 3]

Great Results in Just 8 weeks

welcome :hi::hi:

 

[Ari Silverstein]

The question is "Does his genetics make him a better strength coach?"

Quite possibly.

One of the best attributes of a S/C coach is his ability to watch human movement and decipher problems from it, weaknesses, states of tiredness and readiness, and a host of other things. This talent of interpretations of human movements cannot be taught through the study of kinesiology or human biomechanics.

I believe it is a genetic, God given talent.

 

[Ari Silverstein]

And I would probably say I agree with what you have to say sometimes, but you are such a monumentally arrogant, egotistical full on richard, it makes it extremely difficult to listen to anything you have to say.

There is an Ignore feature. If you are genetically incapable of finding or using it, ask an Admin for help. :crazy:

You are right however, we don't know if the info given is true, but I have no reason to assume that McKeef is just another lying pos at this point.

Our new S/C coach released these figures with his complete understanding and full blessing. He's lying. No, that's too harsh - perhaps he's just a waffling moron <eod>

You don't have to have a degreee in physical therapy, or sports medicine, or whatever it is you have studied to know that improvement in strength and speed (assuming our strength coach is not just making crap up) is good.

:crazy:
I have no degrees in any of these areas of study only in finance and business intelligence.

Thanks for setting me straight on "improvement in strength and speed is good." I wrote it down. :blink:

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Not at all. Gene mutations happen literally all the time in a person. Genes in a person's body aren't necessarily an exact copy of their parents' genes.

Sure, mutations occur in every that lives, but they usually occur over long periods of time. I also realize that a child's genes will often be a 50-50 combination of the mother and father. One can expect that when two athletic people have a child, the odds of that child being a good athletic are pretty good. I also realize that a child with good athletic genes can be lazy as dirt and never be good at anything. I also believe that a child born to two non athletic is likely not be become a good athlete regardless of how much they train. It is difficult to win the Kentucky Derby if you are a mule. I wonder why owners of male winners of the Derby are paid so much for stud fees? Could it be genes?

 

[Ari Silverstein]

...absolutely regardless of how much training and nutrition is involved what percentage of the population do you think is capable of running a sub-10.00 sec 100 meters?

No way of knowing since the entire population never maximizes their training in preparation for this event.

Having a 45+" vertical?

See above

Benching 500lbs?

See above.

What I can say is that the chance of making a 1RM of 500 lbs is ultimately more achievable than the two speed-strength related events. The lift requires a much lower subset of genetic talent and training specificity.

 

[bamacheats]

With respect that's not really that different an argument, at least not unless stated incorrectly.

It's actually a very different argument. You guys are going way overboard here. Let's go ahead and factor age into the equation as well and don't forget DNA analysis and the presence of a foxo gene.

This started because cc piggybacked on a statement by baker (which is moronic in itself because baker has more than proved that he's out of his element on a sports related board, but a freakin hero on a star trek board) in a thread about Arian Foster. Arian mentioned that he had to amp up his training regimen to play at his peak. I mentioned that was also a testament to the sorry excuse for training that he received from Johnny Long. baker said it had to do with genetics, not his training, which is stupid, and means all these guys are in the NFL with disregard to how hard they've worked.

That's the argument. You guys want to get into a genetics debate, we can start a new thread, and we'll break it down strand by strand.
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[hndog609]

No way of knowing since the entire population never maximizes their training in preparation for this event. See aboveSee above.

What I can say is that the chance of making a 1RM of 500 lbs is ultimately more achievable than the two speed-strength related events. The lift requires a much lower subset of genetic talent and training specificity.

It was stated as a generalized question, a ballpark would have sufficed. The point being alluded to is that actually acheiving these things is really quite uncommon even among those that train very hard and are gifted athletes to begin with. Moreover that if you don't have the genetic building material no amount of training is going to make you even a collegiate level sprinter, nevermind Olympic level.

Agree that of the cited marks the bench would be the most accessable, though the press shirts have actually played a big role in that. An honest 500lb lift is still pretty impressive.

 

[govols/cc]

It's actually a very different argument. You guys are going way overboard here. Let's go ahead and factor age into the equation as well and don't forget DNA analysis and the presence of a foxo gene.

This started because cc piggybacked on a statement by baker (which is moronic in itself because baker has more than proved that he's out of his element on a sports related board, but a freakin hero on a star trek board) in a thread about Arian Foster. Arian mentioned that he had to amp up his training regimen to play at his peak. I mentioned that was also a testament to the sorry excuse for training that he received from Johnny Long. baker said it had to do with genetics, not his training, which is stupid, and means all these guys are in the NFL with disregard to how hard they've worked.

That's the argument. You guys want to get into a genetics debate, we can start a new thread, and we'll break it down strand by strand.
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Foster can train as much as wants & will never be as fast as Chris Johnson. He may slim up but will probably never see a 5% bf. Training will help him be the best he can be but there are reasons he will ultimately hit a wall. Maybe Chris Johnson has longer legs or more fast twitch muscle fibers or whatever. Why? Is it not genetics? Is god given natural ability something different? Btw your pitching analogy makes no sense. Sure a certain amount of strength is required for all sports but pitching has a lot to do with technique instead of just raw power. I mean you may have a lanky 6'4" 190lb pitcher that throws 95mph & a 6' heavy set 260lb guy that does the same. I've never seen a heavy set 260lb world class sprinter. I don't think the best bowler in the world can attribute his success to good genes either.
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[bamacheats]

Foster can train as much as wants & will never be as fast as Chris Johnson. He may slim up but will probably never see a 5% bf. Training will help him be the best he can be but there are reasons he will ultimately hit a wall. Maybe Chris Johnson has longer legs or more fast twitch muscle fibers or whatever. Why? Is it not genetics? Is god given natural ability something different? Btw your pitching analogy makes no sense. Sure a certain amount of strength is required for all sports but pitching has a lot to do with technique instead of just raw power. I mean you may have a lanky 6'4" 190lb pitcher that throws 95mph & a 6' heavy set 260lb guy that does the same. I've never seen a heavy set 260lb world class sprinter. I don't think the best bowler in the world can attribute his success to good genes either.
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You're getting ridiculous. The pitching example was about limits with ligature not muscles. You don't come across as a total idiot, if you just read more closely you'll get it.

You're still missing the point. You're comparing Arian to Chris is stupid. You now think someone has claimed that by exercise that they can morph into another human being? It's about an INDIVIDUAL!!! INDIVIDUAL!!! INDIVIDUAL!!! It's not about comparing one person to another, its comparing "normal, not working out as hard Arian" to "working out like a freak Arian."
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[govols/cc]

You're getting ridiculous. The pitching example was about limits with ligature not muscles. You don't come across as a total idiot, if you just read more closely you'll get it.

You're still missing the point. You're comparing Arian to Chris is stupid. You now think someone has claimed that by exercise that they can morph into another human being? It's about an INDIVIDUAL!!! INDIVIDUAL!!! INDIVIDUAL!!! It's not about comparing one person to another, its comparing "normal, not working out as hard Arian" to "working out like a freak Arian."
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Well you're starting to come across as an idiot. Yes it's about the individual. You think any individual can overcome any physical/genetic limitations through training & be as fast,strong, or jump as high as they want. You also can't accept the fact some people are gonna be able to run faster, be stronger, or jump higher than people who train their ass off. I'm not trying to break down strands of DNA, split the atom, or use any hypothetical studies I'm just calling s#!t the way it is.
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[bamacheats]

I've already posted it once, here it is again, read it very closely and then tell me where I stated anybody can sprout wings and fly as long as they workout enough.

It's actually a very different argument. You guys are going way overboard here. Let's go ahead and factor age into the equation as well and don't forget DNA analysis and the presence of a foxo gene.

This started because cc piggybacked on a statement by baker (which is moronic in itself because baker has more than proved that he's out of his element on a sports related board, but a freakin hero on a star trek board) in a thread about Arian Foster. Arian mentioned that he had to amp up his training regimen to play at his peak. I mentioned that was also a testament to the sorry excuse for training that he received from Johnny Long. baker said it had to do with genetics, not his training, which is stupid, and means all these guys are in the NFL with disregard to how hard they've worked.

That's the argument. You guys want to get into a genetics debate, we can start a new thread, and we'll break it down strand by strand.
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[govols/cc]

I would say most guys in the NFL can attribute their physical skills to good genetics & hard work. I think genetics play a larger role than you will admit. Sure you have the feel good story of the guy who who busted is ass & overcame all the odds to make it but he's few & far between. I'm sure you saw the movie "Invincible". The guy was all heart & gave 110% but ultimately what gave a 30 year old bartender his shot was the fact he ran a 4.5 forty. Maybe he worked with a speed trainer & his personal S&C coach on the side I don't know.
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[Blackburn]

Yawn

 

[lylsmorr]

This is still going?

 

[Ari Silverstein]

Originally Posted by Ari Silverstein
No way of knowing since the entire population never maximizes their training in preparation for this event. See aboveSee above.

What I can say is that the chance of making a 1RM of 500 lbs is ultimately more achievable than the two speed-strength related events. The lift requires a much lower subset of genetic talent and training specificity.

It was stated as a generalized question, a ballpark would have sufficed.

If you have a ballpark figure, give it. I don't.

Agree that of the cited marks the bench would be the most accessable, though the press shirts have actually played a big role in that. An honest 500lb lift is still pretty impressive.

Technological advances have improved sprint, vertical height and BP numbers. Look at the advancements in track surfaces which return nearly all of the applied force back to the foot.

The 500 lb IRM BP is most obtainable v.s a 45" vertical and a sub 10 100 mtr because genetics play the least importance, the skill level is significantly less in the BP and their are more Caucasian athletes in the potential mix for the 1RM BP.

 

[bamacheats]

Originally Posted by Ari Silverstein
No way of knowing since the entire population never maximizes their training in preparation for this event. See aboveSee above.

What I can say is that the chance of making a 1RM of 500 lbs is ultimately more achievable than the two speed-strength related events. The lift requires a much lower subset of genetic talent and training specificity.
If you have a ballpark figure, give it. I don't.Technological advances have improved sprint, vertical height and BP numbers. Look at the advancements in track surfaces which return nearly all of the applied force back to the foot.

The 500 lb IRM BP is most obtainable v.s a 45" vertical and a sub 10 100 mtr because genetics play the least importance, the skill level is significantly less in the BP and their are more Caucasian athletes in the potential mix for the 1RM BP.

Racist
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[Ari Silverstein]

The 500 lb IRM BP is most obtainable v.s a 45" vertical and a sub 10 100 mtr because genetics play the least importance, the skill level is significantly less in the BP and their are more Caucasian athletes in the potential mix for the 1RM BP.

Racist
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Facts, bro, facts. Anyone who thinks the white man can keep pace with the black man in the sports where explosive speed-strength dominates is a arseclown.
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[UTopia]

Can someone please get out the homey the clown bat! I keep hoping to see some actual s & c updates!
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[YorkVol]

The 500 lb IRM BP is most obtainable v.s a 45" vertical and a sub 10 100 mtr because genetics play the least importance, the skill level is significantly less in the BP and their are more Caucasian athletes in the potential mix for the 1RM BP.Facts, bro, facts. Anyone who thinks the white man can keep pace with the black man in the sports where explosive speed-strength dominates is a arseclown.
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Then paint a red smiley face on my rearend because that is junk science.

There are plenty of sports events that require explosive strength and speed that could be used to counter your position. Hockey, pole vaulting, rugby and swimming are several that come to mind quickly that have a preponderance of caucasians leading the way. Are you saying that a black man would be genetically predisposed against the cold? Are you perpetuating the stereotype that a black man can't swim? Hopefully not!

Genetics and hard work both play a part, but so do opportunity, cultural role models, community resources, marketing, success stories and a host of other factors that play into why a young man or woman would decide to commit the time and effort to excell at a certain sport.

Your premise reminds me of the justification to sending the 24th and 25th Infantry Regiments to Cuba in 1898--since they were composed of men from African and Caribbean ethnicities, the War Department assumed they were less susceptable to tropical diseases. Needless to say, they were surprised when the majority of the casualties came from yellow fever. . .

My premise would be to find a sport that requires explosive speed-strength and where all the other factors such as opportunity to pursue, cultural role models and success stories are all evened out and you should see a level of integration that is not seen in many American sports. To me that sport is professional soccer. Sure, it does not have the collision factor of American football, but it has all the speed, endurance etc requirements. While teams may reflect the demographics of their country, the fact is no one race dominates soccer.

Then there is the ultimate arena that combines explosive speed-strength requirements, along with endurance, reaction times, hand-eye coordination, gross and fine motor skills, problem solving skills, etc., etc. and that is in the military Special Operations Forces. Not sure what your experience is there, but I've personally seen ex-NFL players and ex-college football players(Black, White, Asian, Hispanic etc) fail miserably trying to just qualify. When you look at a Seal Team, SF-ODA, Delta Force or AF PJ team, there is no racial dominance. I'll say it again, in terms of real, life or death, ultimate physical and mental development, there simply and unquestionably is no racial dominance.

 

[tward1957]

who is the girl on your avatar? thanks

 

[govols/cc]

Then paint a red smiley face on my rearend because that is junk science.

There are plenty of sports events that require explosive strength and speed that could be used to counter your position. Hockey, pole vaulting, rugby and swimming are several that come to mind quickly that have a preponderance of caucasians leading the way. Are you saying that a black man would be genetically predisposed against the cold? Are you perpetuating the stereotype that a black man can't swim? Hopefully not!

Genetics and hard work both play a part, but so do opportunity, cultural role models, community resources, marketing, success stories and a host of other factors that play into why a young man or woman would decide to commit the time and effort to excell at a certain sport.

Your premise reminds me of the justification to sending the 24th and 25th Infantry Regiments to Cuba in 1898--since they were composed of men from African and Caribbean ethnicities, the War Department assumed they were less susceptable to tropical diseases. Needless to say, they were surprised when the majority of the casualties came from yellow fever. . .

My premise would be to find a sport that requires explosive speed-strength and where all the other factors such as opportunity to pursue, cultural role models and success stories are all evened out and you should see a level of integration that is not seen in many American sports. To me that sport is professional soccer. Sure, it does not have the collision factor of American football, but it has all the speed, endurance etc requirements. While teams may reflect the demographics of their country, the fact is no one race dominates soccer.

Then there is the ultimate arena that combines explosive speed-strength requirements, along with endurance, reaction times, hand-eye coordination, gross and fine motor skills, problem solving skills, etc., etc. and that is in the military Special Operations Forces. Not sure what your experience is there, but I've personally seen ex-NFL players and ex-college football players(Black, White, Asian, Hispanic etc) fail miserably trying to just qualify. When you look at a Seal Team, SF-ODA, Delta Force or AF PJ team, there is no racial dominance. I'll say it again, in terms of real, life or death, ultimate physical and mental development, there simply and unquestionably is no racial dominance.

I guess you need to combine genetics with cultural differences. From my experience a lot of blacks do not like to swim or like the the cold. That takes care of that. Taking a lesson from the fab 5 a lot of those sports aren't available to minorities. Also if I were a minority athlete or any athlete for that matter would I play rugby or pole vault, lol, or would I go to where the money was at? Assuming you had a choice to be successful at any sport. Also skating, swimming, & pole vault are about learning something & not you would necessarily benefit from by having good genes. As for the military deal, mental toughness is something totally different. When I was in the military I could smoke a lot of black guys in a 2 mile run but there's no way I could beat many of them in a 40 yard sprint.
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[YorkVol]

I guess you need to combine genetics with cultural differences. From my experience a lot of blacks do not like to swim or like the the cold. That takes care of that. Taking a lesson from the fab 5 a lot of those sports aren't available to minorities. Also if I were a minority athlete or any athlete for that matter would I play rugby or pole vault, lol, or would I go to where the money was at? Assuming you had a choice to be successful at any sport. Also skating, swimming, & pole vault are about learning something & not you would necessarily benefit from by having good genes. As for the military deal, mental toughness is something totally different. When I was in the military I could smoke a lot of black guys in a 2 mile run but there's no way I could beat many of them in a 40 yard sprint.
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Sigh, ok, you are obviously smarter and more experienced in this matter than I, so I'm going to stop and let the thread get back on the new S&C coach.eace:

 

[govols/cc]

Sigh, ok, you are obviously smarter and more experienced in this matter than I, so I'm going to stop and let the thread get back on the new S&C coach.eace:

Lol. Man I'm not claiming to be smarter than anybody. I guess some of us have different rational to back up our beliefs.
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