Ukraine Protests

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#926
#926
So what have I missed? Decided to sleep in today due to ice/snow and I spent the last hour or so digging my driveway and cars out.
 
#928
#928
CountVolcula said:
The bottom line is Obama is afraid of Putin

Everyone in the world can see it but the people who voted for him and his minions in power

Liberals are not known to be strong when it comes to fighting. They would much rather pay to have someone else do the fighting for them. Liberals suffer from head in sand syndrome when it comes to observing a threat and then dealing with that threat. You can't have Liberals in power and expect the U.S. to stand strong in the world.

Are you less likely to fight a guy who looks like he can kick your ass or the one that looks like a stiff wind would blow him over?

Right now, the bike riding pansy is being picked on by the bully around the corner that keeps taking his lunch money

And it's making us look really bad
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This all sounds nice, but the problem with your model is that lots of people die rather than have their lunch money stolen.
 
#929
#929
Grand Vol said:
And specifically what strategic moves did Russia make during the Bush years? Did Putin see him as an equal in the geopolitical sphere or disrespect him at every turn like he has with Obama?

He respected Bush and knew they were playing on equal footing in the world. I mean, the man sent a note to Bush after his surgery for crying out loud. So while they might not have been friends, they certainly could sit down at a table and look each other in the eyes with respect.
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You yourself have already been discussing the war in Georgia.
 
#930
#930
Burhead said:
So what have I missed? Decided to sleep in today due to ice/snow and I spent the last hour or so digging my driveway and cars out.
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Let me give you the shorthand:

Obama bad and weak. Putin smart.

versus

Obama not bad and weak. How was Bush any better?

That's pretty much it.
 
#933
#933
volprof said:
According to some posters, this is different, because Bush was having to grapple with an inefficient congress in his final days.
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Yes, absolutely. And furthermore, the fact that there really wasn't an "invasion" of sorts since the Russians were already there as peacekeepers.

But no matter what, introducing US forces into the country was never an option. Bush had less than six months left in office and any unilateral action on his part would have significantly degraded McCain in the polls (more than he was already). Plus Congress would never have approved of yet another foreign entanglement. Anything Bush suggested was going to be denied by Congress.
 
#934
#934
volprof said:
Let me give you the shorthand:

Obama bad and weak. Putin smart.

versus

Obama not bad and weak. How was Bush any better?

That's pretty much it.
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Are you denying Putin is being pretty crafty in this, as well as all the other situations, and has brought Russia back into the forefront as a world power?
 
#935
#935
Grand Vol said:
Yes, absolutely. And furthermore, the fact that there really wasn't an "invasion" of sorts since the Russians were already there as peacekeepers.

But no matter what, introducing US forces into the country was never an option. Bush had less than six months left in office and any unilateral action on his part would have significantly degraded McCain in the polls (more than he was already). Plus Congress would never have approved of yet another foreign entanglement. Anything Bush suggested was going to be denied by Congress.
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He could have executive ordered it like Obama. lol
 
#936
#936
Russian UN Ambassador is speaking at the UN Security Council meeting. Basically blaming all the problems in the Ukraine on the protesters and supporting Yanukovych. Using his request for support as reason that the Russian troops have gone in.
 
#937
#937
Grand Vol said:
Are you denying Putin is being pretty crafty in this, as well as all the other situations, and has brought Russia back into the forefront as a world power?
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If it makes Obama look bad, then yes, he's denying it like a baby being carried by a hot chick you met nine months ago.
 
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#938
#938
Grand Vol said:
Russian UN Ambassador is speaking at the UN Security Council meeting. Basically blaming all the problems in the Ukraine on the protesters and supporting Yanukovych. Using his request for support as reason that the Russian troops have gone in.
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Lol.
 
#939
#939
US calling for dialog between Russia and the official government of Ukraine. And calls for a UN peacekeeping force to be deployed into the Ukraine as observers.
 
#941
#941
Grand Vol said:
US calling for dialog between Russia and the official government of Ukraine. And calls for a UN peacekeeping force to be deployed into the Ukraine as observers.
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I don't understand why that hasn't already happened. Such a political game of chess
 
#943
#943
I've read that this is really over money. That Russia is concerned Ukraine is going to default on its debt to Russia over natural gas
 
#944
#944
Well, that exchange at the UN looked like could have been any Security Council meeting from the Cold War. Russia/Soviets on one side, US on the other, neither giving ground.

Oh, and gas prices are going up, price of oil is going up and markets are falling. Imagine that.
 
#946
#946
Grand Vol said:
Are you denying Putin is being pretty crafty in this, as well as all the other situations, and has brought Russia back into the forefront as a world power?
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Did you read the article I linked this morning from the BBC on the falling (sharply) value of the Russian rouble?

But that's beside the point pertaining to your question here. Oh, he's extremely crafty. I'm not denying that. And yes, he has indeed brought Russia back as a world power broker. As a nationalist leader of a nation-state goes, he's pretty good, at least in flexing his penis muscles.

None of this is relevant to me, however, because I disagree with this whole nation-state penis muscle flexing model to begin with. It's fine if some don't; I just caution that this model only perpetuates our problems.
 
#947
#947
Funny

CrimeaRiverObama_zps1afb0916.jpg
 
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#948
#948
Obsessed said:
I've read that this is really over money. That Russia is concerned Ukraine is going to default on its debt to Russia over natural gas
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Russia had best be concerned with money. Doesn't sound like their economy is in too good of shape for the long haul, although it may seem viable at the moment.
 
#950
#950
volprof said:
Did you read the article I linked this morning from the BBC on the falling (sharply) value of the Russian rouble?
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I might have missed it in the clutter (which yes, I'm partially responsible for as well)

volprof said:
But that's beside the point pertaining to your question here. Oh, he's extremely crafty. I'm not denying that. And yes, he has indeed brought Russia back as a world power broker. As a nationalist leader of a nation-state goes, he's pretty good, at least in flexing his penis muscles.

None of this is relevant to me, however, because I disagree with this whole nation-state penis muscle flexing model to begin with. It's fine if some don't; I just caution that this model only perpetuates our problems.
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So what specifically do you attribute his ability to be a major player on the world stage in regards to the fairly recent situations? For at least fifteen years after the fall of the Soviet Union, Russians took more of a back seat in the world political scene. What changed the paradigm?

Not a troll post, I'm curious as to your response.
 
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