Ukraine Protests

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#11,151
#11,151
Burhead said:
Interfax is reporting that Vladimir Putin will not rule out "recognizing" the DNR/LNR which is in direct violation of the Minsk Accords. Also interestingly enough Interfax also reported that Putin said any Israeli lethal assistance to Ukraine would be counter-productive. I have to wonder if Bibi is considering providing aid to Ukraine in retaliation for the S-300 shipments to Iran?
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I'm no big fan of the Israeli govt., but yes, he should. How else should a country respond to another that is intent on strengthening a third party nation that has said it thinks the first party (Israel) should not exist?
 
#11,152
#11,152
Burhead said:
Interfax is reporting that Vladimir Putin will not rule out "recognizing" the DNR/LNR which is in direct violation of the Minsk Accords. Also interestingly enough Interfax also reported that Putin said any Israeli lethal assistance to Ukraine would be counter-productive. I have to wonder if Bibi is considering providing aid to Ukraine in retaliation for the S-300 shipments to Iran?
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Would arming Kiev be an action out of spite/retaliation or would it be an action based on military significance?

To me, if Israel was going to arm someone that would be of immediate military significance in their feud with Iran, wouldn't the obvious answer be Saudi Arabia or the Gulf Emirate States? What military advantage would arming Kiev gain for them?

It makes no sense unless this is just a move to have a little hissy fit with Russia.

Does Israel really want to go tit for tat and arms for arms with Russia? It's just stupid.
 
#11,153
#11,153
Rasputin_Vol said:
Would arming Kiev be an action out of spite/retaliation or would it be an action based on military significance?

To me, if Israel was going to arm someone that would be of immediate military significance in their feud with Iran, wouldn't the obvious answer be Saudi Arabia or the Gulf Emirate States? What military advantage would arming Kiev gain for them?

It makes no sense unless this is just a move to have a little hissy fit with Russia.

Does Israel really want to go tit for tat and arms for arms with Russia? It's just stupid.
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We know you and Pacer hate Jews. You've both admitted as much. But why should Israel not be able to arm a nation fighting against a nation that is arming a nation that is bent on destroying its nation (Israel)?

Your side double-standards the **** out of this conflict constantly, and it's quite sickening.

No NATO missile defense shield, because it's provocative. Meanwhile, we Russians can do whatever the hell we want with missile defense.

No NATO military drills, because it's mean! Meanwhile, we Russians can do whatever the hell we want concerning military drills on your borders.

No arming of extremist organizations and regimes in the Middle East! Meanwhile, we Russian can arm extremist organizations and regimes (like we've been doing for years) as much as we want.

No nuclear escalation! We're the only ones allowed to make those kinds of threats!

No flights near our airspace! We're the only ones allowed to do that sort of thing to you!

No European Union! We're the only ones allowed to federalize and unionize disparate peoples! (And that under a gun.)

I could go on.

Stop being sycophants and start actually thinking for yourselves. I don't blame Russia for being interested, and I wish the US was less interested, but it seems to me that you two constantly give Russia a pass for very poor behavior. Maybe it's just that you think they're a bunch of barbarians to begin with, so no use in remonstrating them, but, if they wanted to be treated like a nation of equals, then they should be held to the same standard as you hold the US.

Not that either of you can read this, you bunch of wimps.
 
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#11,154
#11,154
Rasputin_Vol said:
I haven't had a chance to watch his teleconference yet, but it is so refreshing to see a leader that will actually come out and communicate with the people and relate to the Average Joe's mundane problems.
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Please. Just because he hosts a once or twice a year media circus hardly means that his government is transparent.

The fact that he gets in front of the cameras and denies that Russians are invading Ukraine tells you all you need to know about that charade.
 
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#11,156
#11,156
Lively debate

Munk Debate Western Engagement Russia | Video | C-SPAN.org

Panelists debated the West’s relationship with President Vladimir Putin’s Russia. Vladimir Pozner and Stephen Cohen argued for the resolution, “Be it resolved the West should engage not isolate Russia.” Garry Kasparov and Anne Applebaum argued against. The fifteenth semi-annual Munk Debate was held at Roy Thomson Hall in Toronto, Canada.
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#11,157
#11,157
Rasputin_Vol said:
I haven't had a chance to watch his teleconference yet, but it is so refreshing to see a leader that will actually come out and communicate with the people and relate to the Average Joe's mundane problems. Obama ran on having the most open administration in US history and we've gotten nothing close.
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i don't think he really related. he knew plenty of stats for the pre-arranged questions, but had no fixes. just promises of yes we should do more. all of it with the undertones of "
if it wasn't for the checks and balances on my power this would have been resolved." (which was basically that whole spiel on the 2020 measure)

and the freedom loving president telling the woman to just listen to her husband and have no free will, when asking about a dog was really relating too.

there were no difficult questions in there, at least no questions that required difficult answers. any of the "edgy" questions got the same canned response we had already heard from other press conferences.
 
#11,158
#11,158
#11,159
#11,159
It's started.

CDCacP0VEAACpcP.jpg:large
 
#11,160
#11,160
Velo Vol said:
Lively debate

Munk Debate Western Engagement Russia | Video | C-SPAN.org
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I just happened to catch that on CSPAN last night. I thought about coming in here to post that it was on, but so few people are ever in here that late on a Sunday night, I didn't bother.

It was a very good debate. Even got quite heated at times.

Like with most of this conflict, I can see both sides. I don't think the US needs to go any further though, unless they Russians make moves on Kiev or Odessa. Even Mariupol, I say just leave it alone.

I can totally sympathize with the Russian mentality at the same time. There's not exactly a perfect analogy for the US and another nation as there is for the relationship between Ukraine and Russia, but I can totally understand how Russians would look at our input as arrogance. I suppose it would be like Russia trying to take an active role equivalent to or even beyond ours of internal strife in Canada or the UK (closest things I can think of to US "brother nations.")

However, Russia needs to realize that it's now the 21st Century too.
 
#11,161
#11,161
volprof said:
I just happened to catch that on CSPAN last night. I thought about coming in here to post that it was on, but so few people are ever in here that late on a Sunday night, I didn't bother.
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Only old people watch C-SPAN. And me. Nice that they put much of their stuff online.

volprof said:
Like with most of this conflict, I can see both sides. I don't think the US needs to go any further though, unless they Russians make moves on Kiev or Odessa. Even Mariupol, I say just leave it alone.
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Again, if you wait that long to act, it's too late.

volprof said:
I can totally sympathize with the Russian mentality at the same time.
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Russian mentality? Or fear whipped up by the government media? Kind of like we have with terrorism here.
 
#11,163
#11,163
ETvol2015 said:
A Ukrainian National Guard Unit Trains to

Looks like an escalation is coming soon. azov battlion is part of the national guard now I hope our guys don't end up training any of them.

Also got a question, where exactly does Belarus stand with the Russians if this escalated into an out all war? Would they figh or fight with russia
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More likely with Russia if this thing escalated out of control. NATO vs Russia etc. of course IMO.
 
#11,164
#11,164
ETvol2015 said:
A Ukrainian National Guard Unit Trains to

Looks like an escalation is coming soon. azov battlion is part of the national guard now I hope our guys don't end up training any of them.

Also got a question, where exactly does Belarus stand with the Russians if this escalated into an out all war? Would they figh or fight with russia
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Belarus is an interesting case, as is Kazakhstan. No one really knows. Both are members of a defense alliance and cooperation with Russia (like a couple other former Soviet states), but it isn't nearly as well-integrated and defined as NATO. No one really knows whether or not any of them would come to the aid of the other, particularly if it was thought that Russia was being the aggressor.

Lukashenko of Belarus has even expressed some dissatisfaction with Russia's actions in Ukraine, and he has said that no such uprisings will happen in his own country, which suggests that he's privy to Moscow's game in eastern Ukraine, despite Pacer and Ras's best attempts to convince him otherwise.

Honestly, we don't know. My gut instinct is that they would just sit by and watch. Russia has many friends but very few allies. If that makes sense.
 
#11,166
#11,166
Velo Vol said:
Russian mentality? Or fear whipped up by the government media? Kind of like we have with terrorism here.
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They've been encroached upon by the West throughout the last millenium, but, yeah, it's not like they've just been sitting tight in one spot that entire time. They've been spreading too, for what they consider "security purposes." I think it's time we all entered the 21st Century. The US needs to understand that it's easy for it to be invested in things halfway around the world that don't really directly concern in because it has no real security threats at home. Unlike Russia. Likewise, Russia needs to realize that the caveman days of taking others territory and of thinking someone is going to invade you (when you're the world's largest nuclear power) are pretty much over.
 
#11,167
#11,167
ETvol2015 said:
A Ukrainian National Guard Unit Trains to

Looks like an escalation is coming soon. azov battlion is part of the national guard now I hope our guys don't end up training any of them.

Also got a question, where exactly does Belarus stand with the Russians if this escalated into an out all war? Would they figh or fight with russia
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The escalation has been going on for awhile now. Most reports I've seen say that are softening up Ukrainian positions in preparation for the Mariupol offensive.
 
#11,168
#11,168
if Mariupol is attacked this thing will spiral out of control. should be a tough battle I don't think Azov is going to surrender the city under any conditions
 
#11,169
#11,169
volprof said:
How in God's name does nonsense like this get published? Both this article and the one she references frequently? Seriously. What trash!

Russia vs. US: The World War 3
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article is full of lols. We don't have to nuke the entire country of Russia to wipe it out. basically the western 1/4 and eastern coastline, with targeted nukes at various industries in between.

and i like how it mentions the US would lose the nuclear war, even if we struck first. the article assumes any damage we do is negligible and that Russia's aging submarine fleet would be able to effectively wipe us out. again it assumes we could not recover but Russia could, with a smaller population and less infrastructure and industry.

it also makes a big deal about us reducing our number of nukes by less than 100. and seems to assume that would be the difference in any nuclear war.

Also this assumes that our nuclear allies would stand by and let Russia nuke the crap out of us. while they may not do it out of any particular love of us, they would join in just to keep Russia from being number 1 in a nuclear world. and at that point i would bet we see a couple of the other nations launch some nukes of their own at various targets. (Pakistan and India wipe each other out, Israel nukes Iran, NK nukes SK)
 
#11,170
#11,170
LouderVol said:
article is full of lols. We don't have to nuke the entire country of Russia to wipe it out. basically the western 1/4 and eastern coastline, with targeted nukes at various industries in between.

and i like how it mentions the US would lose the nuclear war, even if we struck first. the article assumes any damage we do is negligible and that Russia's aging submarine fleet would be able to effectively wipe us out. again it assumes we could not recover but Russia could, with a smaller population and less infrastructure and industry.

it also makes a big deal about us reducing our number of nukes by less than 100. and seems to assume that would be the difference in any nuclear war.

Also this assumes that our nuclear allies would stand by and let Russia nuke the crap out of us. while they may not do it out of any particular love of us, they would join in just to keep Russia from being number 1 in a nuclear world. and at that point i would bet we see a couple of the other nations launch some nukes of their own at various targets. (Pakistan and India wipe each other out, Israel nukes Iran, NK nukes SK)
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The size of Russia is very deceiving. It's the biggest "not really that big" country on Earth. All of the people in Russia live in an area that is geographically about half the size of the contiguous United States. (When you think of it that way, the US is actually much larger.) And its only means of getting from one end to the other are air, rail (only one rail line that transcends that far, which would be a logistical nightmare in a war), and by the great sea tour. (The latter Russia tried once, and it was an utter disaster.)

Basically, to take out Russia, really all you have to do is just take out the European part. It's that simple, yet that difficult.
 
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#11,171
#11,171
volprof said:
Likewise, Russia needs to realize that the caveman days of taking others territory and of thinking someone is going to invade you (when you're the world's largest nuclear power) are pretty much over.
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No one thinks Ukraine will invade Russia. There was no western military in Ukraine a year ago. It's a ruse for domestic support for the invasion.
 
#11,172
#11,172
volprof said:
The size of Russia is very deceiving. It's the biggest "not really that big" country on Earth. All of the people in Russia live in an area that is geographically about half the size of the contiguous United States. (When you think of it that way, the US is actually much larger.) And its only means of getting from one end to the other are air, rail (only one rail line that transcends that far, which would be a logistical nightmare in a war), and by the great sea tour. (The latter Russia tried once, and it was an utter disaster.)

Basically, to take out Russia, really all you have to do is just take out the European part. It's that simple, yet that difficult.
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them and australia. the size that might be more important is manpower vs area. in modern warfare area is not that important.
 
#11,174
#11,174
Well, it was nice, gentlemen.

I was hoping we'd make it to 12,000 at least, but it's apparently over now.

I've enjoyed discussing this crisis with you all, but, given the revelations of the last post, I'm just too embarrassed to go on.

Until the next crisis, guys.
 
#11,175
#11,175
Rasputin_Vol said:
end thread/

Russia Following Advice of US Founding Fathers on Debt Burden
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lol, so the advice he is following is spend more so you can sell more. right, doesn't sound like America at all.

care to comment on any of the other basic Russian "Freedom Acts"

-limits on peaceful protests
-limits on driving rights based on sexual preference and loss of limb
-limit on free speech on the internet
-limit on how much one can speak out against the government

yes please go on about how Russia is more American than America.
 
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