Ukraine Protests

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#9,901
#9,901
LouderVol said:
i asked who would step into America's shoes, so yes those points are entirely valid. If America's economy tanks due to the petrodollar death or some other factor, we stop taking care of the world's problems. China is not going to do, no one else has the capability, heck the top ten don't have the capability.
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I answered your question based on the parameters of the discussion, which was about America being the new Mexico in regards to being the place where other countries can get their low cost manufacturing outsourced. Within the parameters of that conversation, we also talked about Chinese vs American imports and exports. The topic of being the world's police force didn't come up until you asked me about who would step in America's place. I assumed that since we were talking about economic issues, that the answer you would want would remain in those parameters. I answered you and said China, which most reasonable people would agree that from an economic sense, China will (or depending on who you talk to has) overtaken the US. But after I gave you my answer, you then changed course and added in this global military agenda about policing the seas and all of this other stuff that wasn't even related to the original discussion.

So let me try one more time:

China will be the new US in terms of having the pseudo-reserve currency or the US having a vastly diminished dollar in foreign reserves. They will also have a domestic economy that will need to be supplied with domestic products and imports.

As far as this other twist that you added at the very end, which had nothing to do with the discussion, that answer will be ... no one. There will be no other country that would have the ability to police the world in the manner that the US has done in the past 75+ years.

I have the patience to talk with Cspindizzy and Burhead. But you and Volprof are just next level maddening.
 
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#9,902
#9,902
Rasputin_Vol said:
I answered your question based on the parameters of the discussion, which was about America being the new Mexico in regards to being the place where other countries can get their low cost manufacturing outsourced. Within the parameters of that conversation, we also talked about Chinese vs American imports and exports. The topic of being the world's police force didn't come up until you asked me about who would step in America's place. I assumed that since we were talking about economic issues, that the answer you would want would remain in those parameters. I answered you and said China, which most reasonable people would agree that from an economic sense, China will (or depending on who you talk to has) overtaken the US. But after I gave you my answer, you then changed course and added in this global military agenda about policing the seas and all of this other stuff that wasn't even related to the original discussion.

So let me try one more time:

China will be the new US in terms of having the pseudo-reserve currency or the US having a vastly diminished dollar in foreign reserves. They will also have a domestic economy that will need to be supplied with domestic products and imports.

As far as this other twist that you added at the very end, which had nothing to do with the discussion, that answer will be ... no one. There will be no other country that would have the ability to police the world in the manner that the US has done in the past 75+ years.

I have the patience to talk with Cspindizzy and Burhead. But you and Volprof are just next level maddening.
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when i asked the question we had already established what China would become (the global leader in economics). and we had already established that the US would be the Mexico of the world, also in economics. I was expanding the conversation simply because we had played out that one set of discussion (the economics, we were agreed to an extent) and moved on to a linked area. (BTW there are other shoes to fill besides the military/policing but that is the maybe the next most pressing after the economics)
 
#9,903
#9,903
B_obPa3VEAAaDg3.jpg:large
 
#9,904
#9,904
has there ever been a second thread in the politics forum? (Ukraine Protests II? God II? Obama Sucks II?)

*i ask because i haven't even been here (VN) a year so I don't know if this is even a thing that happens.
 
#9,907
#9,907
LouderVol said:
I don't think i have made it onto anyone's ignore list yet, so i would kinda see it as a compliment.

also you could have highlighted the moving goalpost part of his statement as well.
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Nah, I try not to be too mean to the children on here. But every once in a while they need to get spanked.
 
#9,908
#9,908
found this interesting. BBC News - Russia: Free bread offered to pensioners

The cost of many basic food items has soared in Russia during the past year - in part caused by Russian counter-sanctions banning food imports from Western countries and a sharp fall in the rouble's value. Fruit and vegetable prices rose by 40% in the year to January, and consumers have seen a significant rise in the cost of eggs, pasta and cereals.
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#9,910
#9,910
LouderVol said:
ras and pacer will get some mileage out of that comment. you would think at some point this usage of dangerous elements would have to blow up in their faces, literally even.
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Putin does not care if it blows up in his face. This is a guy who used Chechens to create situations to level a region. He uses them to tighten his grip. When he controls the media he has a way to covering his tracks and not bearing the brunt of the negative image.
 
#9,912
#9,912
LouderVol said:
i asked who would step into America's shoes, so yes those points are entirely valid. If America's economy tanks due to the petrodollar death or some other factor, we stop taking care of the world's problems. China is not going to do, no one else has the capability, heck the top ten don't have the capability.
Click to expand...

China will never become a superpower, in the conventional definition. Not self-sufficient enough and surrounded by far too many adversarial nations.

Think about it: if China tried to exert the naval influence that America has for 70 years, what would be the result? A major war, that's what.

I just don't think people quite realize how good (I'm not going to say great) the system is right now. I can't really envision anything practically working better.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPoy60WcinY[/youtube]
 
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#9,913
#9,913
LouderVol said:
has there ever been a second thread in the politics forum? (Ukraine Protests II? God II? Obama Sucks II?)

*i ask because i haven't even been here (VN) a year so I don't know if this is even a thing that happens.
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Not that I recall, but we've still got some work to do. Thread won't close till 12,000ish.
 
#9,915
#9,915
Velo Vol said:
Define.
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International economic, military, political, and technological (four most indispensable factors) powerhouse. That, and the capacity to ensure that markets work in your favor.

Honestly, although we use the term a lot to describe them, I'm not really sure even the Soviet Union quite qualified, but I guess when you're the de facto "spiritual head" for nearly half the world's population, you get to wriggle around with the definition a bit.

I just don't see China capable of doing these things. China has become a major success story by working through the American system, not against it. For all its protestations about America, and the dollar, and how swell the Yuan is (although it's just as manipulated internally), this system has enabled it. The only reason why China seems to be seeking an alternative economic model at the moment is because it's printed more money than it knows what to do with (I've heard more than the American dollar is in circulation) and needs some outlet for actually using it (it's only worth its initial value if it can be spent). If that system were to be removed, China would go down in a hurry. And a major war would probably result.

Don't tell Ras any of these things though. He's still convinced China is an intelligent model of economic integrity.
 
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#9,916
#9,916
Pacer92 said:
?US used to bullying, unwilling to change habits - political scientist ? RT SophieCo
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so Russia's national will/strategy > Ukraine's? Ukraine may want it, shown by votes, but Russia doesn't want it. so we have to side with Russia and let them overrule what Ukraine wants.

and that article several times states that the Ukraine conflict is Ukraine vs Russia.
it’s a crisis between Ukraine and Russia,
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If the U.S. was to try seriously arm the Ukrainian army, the Russians would just up the ante
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The Russians, not surprisingly, given NATO expansion and EU expansion, consider this to be categorically unacceptable, and the end result is that Putin took Crimea and he’s now in the process of going to great lengths to wreck Ukraine, because he’s not willing to let Ukraine become part of the West
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Putin has no intention of allowing Ukraine to become part of the West. He’s basically saying to the West, and he’s saying to Kiev: “If you don’t back off, if you don’t stop pursuing this policy of westernization inside of Ukraine, I’ll wreck Ukraine instead
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but remember we are war mongering, oh wait. Even RT is saying Europe isn't that important to the US
So, Europe is becoming increasingly less important in the American strategic mind over time, and you’d want to remember that Americans are committed to pivoting to Asia, and when you pivot to somewhere, that means you pivot away from another area, and the area we’re talking about pivoting away from was Europe. So this crisis over Ukraine really caught us off-guard, and as long as we remain involved in Ukraine, it would be difficult for us to pivot to Asia, which is more important strategic area of the world, than Europe, and again, as I said, I think the Persian Gulf is inextricably linked to Asia and therefore it too is a very important area.
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wtf is this kinda question
So, with Persian Gulf area and the whole Middle East area moving to the second position according to importance of topics for America, could we see a barter exchange between Russia and the U.S.? Let’s say, trading the issue of Syria for Ukraine, for instance?
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the article again operates on the assumption that the US is the only nation with a political will in all of our alliances. Including us 'forcing NATO' on the other nations in the two expansions.
 
#9,918
#9,918
volprof said:
China will never become a superpower, in the conventional definition. Not self-sufficient enough and surrounded by far too many adversarial nations.

Think about it: if China tried to exert the naval influence that America has for 70 years, what would be the result? A major war, that's what.

I just don't think people quite realize how good (I'm not going to say great) the system is right now. I can't really envision anything practically working better.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPoy60WcinY[/youtube]
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love how the guy pronounces "behemoth"
 
#9,920
#9,920
volprof said:
The forces of good and righteousness have only gotten started in our war against evil.
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if nothing else we can just pick up these same arguments when Transnistria tries to hook up with Crimea, or the Baltic states start having their own "CIA false flag operations" in their own thread. It may not officially be Ukraine Protest Thread II but we will honor its passing in those future threads.
 
#9,922
#9,922
LouderVol said:
this isn't going to end anytime soon.
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Now that Putin's put things into motion this is only the beginning. He had soft launches in Transnistria and Georgia. Nazarbayev will die soon. More in the Caucasus and the Baltics. This topic will exist for some time.
 
#9,923
#9,923
CSpindizzy said:
Now that Putin's put things into motion this is only the beginning. He had soft launches in Transnistria and Georgia. Nazarbayev will die soon. More in the Caucasus and the Baltics. This topic will exist for some time.
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We're all likely to still be posting in the Ukraine Thread XXV in the year 2047.

Both sides will still be just as much at odds.
 
#9,925
#9,925
volprof said:
We're all likely to still be posting in the Ukraine Thread XXV in the year 2047.

Both sides will still be just as much at odds.
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Naw. Like Ras says we'll provoke Putin to nuke us all. Nuland will say something and we will all either be ash or like Morlocks living underground.
 
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