Ukraine Protests

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#9,876
#9,876
volprof said:
Kind of difficult to have legitimate veterans' groups when they're accused of being fascists and Nazis.
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???

Imagine the field day a 60 Minutes-type program (not that Russia has such a thing) would have, if I understand that video correctly, they found amputee soldiers being sent home and left to fend for themselves without government support.
 
#9,877
#9,877
Velo Vol said:
???

Imagine the field day a 60 Minutes-type program (not that Russia has such a thing) would have, if I understand that video correctly, they found amputee soldiers being sent home and left to fend for themselves without government support.
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About all I know about Russian veterans groups and veterans affairs, other than that they're virtually non-existent, is from the RT coverage of the 2013 Victory Day (before this crisis even occurred), where the American and British anchors, along with a Russian military commentator, basically just sit in the studio the entire time watching the parade while bashing all things American and talking about how great Russia's treatment of its vets are while America can't say the same.

I sometimes put that feed from YouTube back on whenever I'm working out at the house and need some *******s to make me mad and pump me up.
 
#9,878
#9,878
Holy God, this just keeps getting more and more bizarre. A 6th suspect has apparently blown himself up in Grozny. Only victim of the explosion that I'm aware of.

These guys must have really pissed ole' Ramzan and/or Putin off to have warranted this kind of treatment.

Good God.
 
#9,879
#9,879
volprof said:
I sometimes put that feed from YouTube back on whenever I'm working out at the house and need some *******s to make me mad and pump me up.
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RT? Is it the same as RT that shows in America?

Saw this on Twitter. European countries' second most populous nationalities

B_f8WKxWcAAz0op.png
 
#9,880
#9,880
Velo Vol said:
RT? Is it the same as RT that shows in America?

Saw this on Twitter. European countries' second most populous nationalities

B_f8WKxWcAAz0op.png
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This is the video. Kind of long, so, like I said, best for workouts or doing something relatively mindless:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh9Hu-9ZCio

The commentary, particularly from the American anchor (the man on the left in the studio) will about make you throw up.
 
#9,881
#9,881
#9,885
#9,885
Rasputin_Vol said:
But wait... first off, the US wasn't even involved in Minsk I or II. Why does the US have the right to subvert or bypass a peace agreement that we weren't even involved in? Plus, by their own admission, the US officials are putting it on hold in order to give the ceasefire a chance. As long as there is a chance for peace, why are you in support of pushing a war agenda?
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its been what 2+ weeks? its a ceasefire, not growing crops. it is either a ceasefire or it isn't. right now it isn't. and none of it the fault of Ukraine.
 
#9,886
#9,886
LouderVol said:
really they are going to start spending billions on global defense initiatives? patrolling seas, dealing with terrorism and other rogue states? doesnt sound like china to me.
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No, they will not do most, if not any of those things. What does that have to do with the discussion we were having? China is not going to be the world's police force. The days of one country playing the same role militarily that the US has done over the last 75+ years is over. What they will do, however, is focus on their domestic economy and strengthening regional alliances.
 
#9,889
#9,889
LouderVol said:
but remember Crimea has closer ties to Russia than too anywhere else? who else is going to subjugate the minorities like the Russians? The government in Kiev wasn't doing a good enough job apparently. so Russia had to move in to 'protect' the locals.
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Surprised it wasn't a Tatar who shot Nemtsov. Tried and true Soviet way of excusing genocide was trumped up charges.
 
#9,890
#9,890
Rasputin_Vol said:
I don't have a bias against America. Nor do I favor Russia. I want the facts to come out. As of right now, the burden of proof is on the US when they make claims 1 hour after a plane is shot down or 30 mins after a politician is shot down that Putin is involved with little to no proof.
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Russia was doing the exact same, the exact same. The first article i read on MH17 was a Russian source claiming Kiev had done it.
 
#9,891
#9,891
CSpindizzy said:
But I thought Crimea was an internal struggle in which the locals had fair elections to determine their own fates. Russia was not involved in illegally seizing Crimea right?

Let's ask Vlad.

Putin describes secret operation to seize Crimea
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If that's true, that is a pretty cut and dry admission right there. It would be interesting to see what the documentary says about these details and more.

"We ended at about seven in the morning," Putin says. "When we were parting, I said to my colleagues: we must start working on returning Crimea to Russia."
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Any comment on the phrasing... "returning" to Russia?
 
#9,892
#9,892
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, they will not do most, if not any of those things. What does that have to do with the discussion we were having? China is not going to be the world's police force. The days of one country playing the same role militarily that the US has done over the last 75+ years is over. What they will do, however, is focus on their domestic economy and strengthening regional alliances.
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i asked who would step into America's shoes, so yes those points are entirely valid. If America's economy tanks due to the petrodollar death or some other factor, we stop taking care of the world's problems. China is not going to do, no one else has the capability, heck the top ten don't have the capability.
 
#9,893
#9,893
CSpindizzy said:
Surprised it wasn't a Tatar who shot Nemtsov. Tried and true Soviet way of excusing genocide was trumped up charges.
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well the group accused of it are Chechens right? they are right up there with the Tatars on Russia's "To Get Rid of List"
 
#9,894
#9,894
Rasputin_Vol said:
If that's true, that is a pretty cut and dry admission right there. It would be interesting to see what the documentary says about these details and more.



Any comment on the phrasing... "returning" to Russia?
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It's from a Russian media source and the trailer has Putin saying this.

Use of the word 'returning' is irrelevant in the legal sense that Russia signed an agreement on the boundaries of Ukraine and the respect of that. Some notion that land "belonged" to Russia? All that does is confirm the landgrabbing image many have against the man. Some nationalistic, fascist notion of regaining lost lands taken away from some treaty or agreement of old is no excuse to disregard a recent agreement of your nation confirming this border. All this does is give a firm case for theft and invasion. There was a denial this was the case. The "little green men" accusation was written off as conspiracy theories. Now we have an admission those theories were accurate. Begs the question about the case in Donbas. And the reliability of anything Putin says.

Also hearing Pisky being shelled by heavier artillery than what is allowed under Minsk II. Ukraine cannot retaliate in response since anything worthwhile sending back was pulled back according to the agreement. Looks like reliability of word is consistent with Putin's minions as well.
 
#9,895
#9,895
Rasputin_Vol said:
If that's true, that is a pretty cut and dry admission right there. It would be interesting to see what the documentary says about these details and more.



Any comment on the phrasing... "returning" to Russia?
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should we return Crimea to the Turks, or the Mongols? I don't think so, they lost control and did not have the right to 'return' Crimea back under their control. the USSR controlled Crimea and then broke the crap up, at which point the Crimeans said F*&K Russia, we want to be part of Ukraine (Aka NOT Russia- an important distinction) so his use of the term "returning" is as invalid as any of those other examples I gave.
 
#9,896
#9,896
LouderVol said:
well the group accused of it are Chechens right? they are right up there with the Tatars on Russia's "To Get Rid of List"
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Tame Chechens are useful for Putin. He's using the "tamed" ones to fight in Ukraine. He also uses them to create false flag operations and assassinations in Russia. You have a highly decorated, Spetsnaz trained operative who was useful in killing Nemtsov. Tatars are not of this quality. They are mostly nominal Muslim and not fanatical in their uses.
 
#9,897
#9,897
CSpindizzy said:
Tame Chechens are useful for Putin. He's using the "tamed" ones to fight in Ukraine. He also uses them to create false flag operations and assassinations in Russia. You have a highly decorated, Spetsnaz trained operative who was useful in killing Nemtsov. Tatars are not of this quality. They are mostly nominal Muslim and not fanatical in their uses.
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never understood how Russia was able to make the determination on 'good' Chechens vs 'bad' Chechens. seems like the reason of conflict the Chechens are involved in has swapped sides a couple times.
 
#9,898
#9,898
LouderVol said:
never understood how Russia was able to make the determination on 'good' Chechens vs 'bad' Chechens. seems like the reason of conflict the Chechens are involved in has swapped sides a couple times.
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Putin has always been comfortable with using a group he can get some mileage out of. He has done a good job in showing some are useful. They make convenient scapegoats to either help his causes OR if any of the "good" ones get out of line. He has done internally what we usually do in the Middle East. Difference is he is a brute in dealing with them to keep them under control - even the innocent civilians. See the last invasions he's done. Grozny has been pummeled several times.
 
#9,899
#9,899
CSpindizzy said:
Putin has always been comfortable with using a group he can get some mileage out of. He has done a good job in showing some are useful. They make convenient scapegoats to either help his causes OR if any of the "good" ones get out of line. He has done internally what we usually do in the Middle East. Difference is he is a brute in dealing with them to keep them under control - even the innocent civilians. See the last invasions he's done. Grozny has been pummeled several times.
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ras and pacer will get some mileage out of that comment. you would think at some point this usage of dangerous elements would have to blow up in their faces, literally even.
 
#9,900
#9,900
volprof said:
Good way of distracting them from what a ****ty ride they're in store for over the next few years.
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It's striking how much the negatives have gone up in one year--at a time when the U.S. has been reluctant to do much abroad.
 
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