Ukraine Protests

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#6,176
#6,176
if anyone is actually interested in keeping up with what is going on over there the OSCE is a great resource and has daily break downs of what is going on. And its statements point fingers at everyone involved or semi-involved.

News and press releases | OSCE
 
#6,177
#6,177
LouderVol said:
The OSCE has stated numerous times that individuals, supplies and troop movements have gone over the border. the only thing making it non official is that the Russians have removed all Russian symbols and identifying marks that would officially make them soldiers instead of freedom fighters. and do you really think a system such as Russia is 'ok' letting troops, materials and machines go AWOL into a combat zone without someone up the line approving it?

and do you have actual proof for the second statement. No, us visiting people does not count, and no just because the official story is wrong also doesn't prove that we were involved.
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Well, apparently the Kremlin and Russian central command are perfectly okay with Russian soldiers spending their vacay time in the Donbas, fighting.

If anyone actually believes that a bunch seeking as tight control on matters involving even who can drive a car in the Federation, while also seeking vast military upgrades, is willing to just let its troops go willy-nilly-it on leave time through the Donbas, then I can't help him or her.
 
#6,181
#6,181
Rasputin_Vol said:
I have to rely on judgement and what seems to make logical sense.
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You lap up anything coming from the Kremlin or RT (which is the Kremlin for the most part) like it's gospel. Judgment and logic escapes you for the most part.

Rasputin_Vol said:
Also the fact that there is undeniable proof that the US was involved 14 months ago in helping to overthrow a democratically elected Yanokuvich for the purpose of bringing The Ukraine closer to a dying EU. It was not then and certainly isn't now in Ukraine's long term best interest to align with the EU when it is in danger of imploding in the not too distant future.
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lulz
 
#6,182
#6,182
LouderVol said:
The OSCE has stated numerous times that individuals, supplies and troop movements have gone over the border. the only thing making it non official is that the Russians have removed all Russian symbols and identifying marks that would officially make them soldiers instead of freedom fighters.
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They're volunteers.
 
#6,183
#6,183
Grand Vol said:
You lap up anything coming from the Kremlin or RT (which is the Kremlin for the most part) like it's gospel. Judgment and logic escapes you for the most part.



lulz
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Why is it that anything not from MSM is Kremlin based poo?

The evidence is overwhelming in support of a US backed coup in Ukraine. Logical minds look at all the evidence before making judgements.
 
#6,184
#6,184
Pacer92 said:
Why is it that anything not from MSM is Kremlin based poo?

The evidence is overwhelming in support of a US backed coup in Ukraine. Logical minds look at all the evidence before making judgements.
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what evidence? the only proof is that the official story doesn't add up.

you are making the logical fallacy of thinking that just because the answer isn't A means the answer has to be B.

always, always, always look at who has gained the most to look for the cause. In this situation it is Russia. They have gotten Crimea and a highly destabilized Ukraine. The US has gotten slightly more serious talks about Ukraine joining NATO and the EU?
 
#6,186
#6,186
LouderVol said:
what evidence? the only proof is that the official story doesn't add up.

you are making the logical fallacy of thinking that just because the answer isn't A means the answer has to be B.

always, always, always look at who has gained the most to look for the cause. In this situation it is Russia. They have gotten Crimea and a highly destabilized Ukraine. The US has gotten slightly more serious talks about Ukraine joining NATO and the EU?
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I don't think a destabilized Ukraine benefits Russia at all! The US/EU were bound and determined their political influence was going to be established in Ukraine one way or the other. They will not be happy until NATO missiles are sitting on the now destroyed Donetsk airport.

The Crimea would still be in Ukranian hands if not for the coup. The facts are the the US could not wait for or count on the election of a pro western puppet....so they forced change.

How does a pro western EU aligned nation that is engrossed in civil war, benifit Russia??
 
#6,188
#6,188
Pacer92 said:
I don't think a destabilized Ukraine benefits Russia at all! The US/EU were bound and determined their political influence was going to be established in Ukraine one way or the other. They will not be happy until NATO missiles are sitting on the now destroyed Donetsk airport.

The Crimea would still be in Ukranian hands if not for the coup. The facts are the the US could not wait for or count on the election of a pro western puppet....so they forced change.

How does a pro western EU aligned nation that is engrossed in civil war, benifit Russia??
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Coup? I call it a people's revolution. :hi:
 
#6,193
#6,193
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#6,194
#6,194
red butler said:
Interestingly, there was a US congressman on that flight. Lawrence McDonald from Georgia. He was a high ranking member of the John Birch society and huge critic of the NWO. I smell a conspiracy theory that would make a great movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puNCkwjuxJ0
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I never realized he was a member of the John Birch Society. I knew he was on the flight and was a staunch anti-communist, but didn't realize it went that far.

You're right, it would make a good movie lol
 
#6,197
#6,197
Pacer92 said:
I don't think a destabilized Ukraine benefits Russia at all! The US/EU were bound and determined their political influence was going to be established in Ukraine one way or the other. They will not be happy until NATO missiles are sitting on the now destroyed Donetsk airport.

The Crimea would still be in Ukranian hands if not for the coup. The facts are the the US could not wait for or count on the election of a pro western puppet....so they forced change.

How does a pro western EU aligned nation that is engrossed in civil war, benifit Russia??
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really, a destabilized Ukraine doesn't help a Russia who has been actively annexing semi-autonomous regions from its neighbors since the Wall fell? Also look at the coal buying fiasco going on now and tell me that doesn't favor Russia by a destabilized Ukraine. You can look at Gazprom too, they are using the weaker Ukraine economy to leverage higher prices ie, because Ukraine couldn't pay the rates the Russians are going to jack the rates. Yes I know Ukraine owes billions of dollars on NG, but after the Ukrainian 'coup' the amount they owed went WAY UP, because Russia was less willing to write off the losses.

The people of Ukraine wanted to be closer to the West, polls right before were 53 or 54% in favor (EU), while not much of a margin it was there. the people of Ukraine wanted something, their president said he would get them that, he then went against the people's wishes and his own word and you are surprised he got overthrown? what do you think would happen to Obama's support if he suddenly canned ACA? while the Rs might be happy his D's wouldn't be. that is what happened over there.

I wont argue that NATO wouldn't be happy about adding Ukraine, but if the people of Ukraine want it who are we, the outside world, to say no?

if there was any coup it was in Crimea. gunmen in the voting building does not read as democracy. Russia panicked when it saw the Ukrainians react in a very anti-Russian manner and moved in to grab territory by forcing out at gun point the government that operated in the area. its no wonder Crimea 'voted' for freedom when the side that would support staying was kicked out by armed gunmen.
 
#6,198
#6,198
I wonder what kind of margaritas they have in the Donbass. I want to see some social media pics this spring break of ****-faced Russian volunteers wearing sombreros and drinking out of fishbowl size margarita glasses in Donetsk.

Still contemplating whether or not a hot body bikini contest is a good idea though.
 
#6,199
#6,199
volprof said:
Hey, look, America apparently isn't the only country on Earth attempting to sneakily influence the happenings in other nations afterall!

Iran general killed with Hezbollah fighters in Israel raid
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I'd love to get the full story on this event because it's fascinating. It appears to me the Iranian general and a small force were helping Syria against ISIS in an advisory fashion. But none of the news outlets are saying ISIS so I can't tell for sure. It's hard to keep the bad guys straight, but is it possible that Israel just killed a "good guy"?
 
#6,200
#6,200
LouderVol said:
really, a destabilized Ukraine doesn't help a Russia who has been actively annexing semi-autonomous regions from its neighbors since the Wall fell? Also look at the coal buying fiasco going on now and tell me that doesn't favor Russia by a destabilized Ukraine. You can look at Gazprom too, they are using the weaker Ukraine economy to leverage higher prices ie, because Ukraine couldn't pay the rates the Russians are going to jack the rates. Yes I know Ukraine owes billions of dollars on NG, but after the Ukrainian 'coup' the amount they owed went WAY UP, because Russia was less willing to write off the losses.

The people of Ukraine wanted to be closer to the West, polls right before were 53 or 54% in favor (EU), while not much of a margin it was there. the people of Ukraine wanted something, their president said he would get them that, he then went against the people's wishes and his own word and you are surprised he got overthrown? what do you think would happen to Obama's support if he suddenly canned ACA? while the Rs might be happy his D's wouldn't be. that is what happened over there.

I wont argue that NATO wouldn't be happy about adding Ukraine, but if the people of Ukraine want it who are we, the outside world, to say no?

if there was any coup it was in Crimea. gunmen in the voting building does not read as democracy. Russia panicked when it saw the Ukrainians react in a very anti-Russian manner and moved in to grab territory by forcing out at gun point the government that operated in the area. its no wonder Crimea 'voted' for freedom when the side that would support staying was kicked out by armed gunmen.
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I'm still trying to figure out how one commits a coup against someone who exits a nation voluntarily. Granted, he was under a lot of pressure, but the last I checked, no one was forcing him out just yet. There was still a parliamentary process to undergo, but he decided to do without it and abscond to Russia in the middle of the night.
 
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