Ukraine Protests

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#2,951
#2,951
More adventures in channel RT:

Currently, the anchor is taking time on a segment on violence in Odessa to point to numerous pro-Ukrainian Facebook posts glorifying the deaths of the pro-Russian side in the burning of the Trade Unions Building. Even brought on a political scientist to comment on how the vitriol was the worst she had seen and that it demonstrated a clear radical component of the pro-Kiev crowd.

That's grade A political scientisting right there. Take one small sample and make sweeping gestures.

Assuming these are even actual posts by Ukrainians and not more Russian Internet trolling, these posts prove nothing other than that there are a few idiots in the world.

Every time I watch RT, I end up getting a good laugh.
 
#2,953
#2,953
CSpindizzy said:
And the Russian perspective...

Fascist massacre in Odessa: Shocking details unveiled - English pravda.ru
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116 deaths? I'd like to know where they are getting that figure from, although, as I posted above, it is expected that the figure will be higher than the current 46.

As a side note, I read an article today about how the Russian govt. was mocking the US for being stupid regarding world geography. The premise concerned the recent USAF comments regarding a stepped-up Russian AF presence in the eastern Pacific, and the American side claiming it was directly related to Ukraine (which clearly it is). Russian govt. laughed that Americans didn't know that Ukraine was on the other side of the world.

I'd like to quiz them, however, on how knowledgeable they actually are in identifying real fascists. They use that word an obnoxious amount, and I just want to be sure that they know what it means. 'Cause I don't think they do, otherwise Father God Putin would not be at a near 80% approval rating.
 
#2,954
#2,954
volprof said:
116 deaths? I'd like to know where they are getting that figure from, although, as I posted above, it is expected that the figure will be higher than the current 46.

As a side note, I read an article today about how the Russian govt. was mocking the US for being stupid regarding world geography. The premise concerned the recent USAF comments regarding a stepped-up Russian AF presence in the eastern Pacific, and the American side claiming it was directly related to Ukraine (which clearly it is). Russian govt. laughed that Americans didn't know that Ukraine was on the other side of the world.

I'd like to quiz them, however, on how knowledgeable they actually are in identifying real fascists. They use that word an obnoxious amount, and I just want to be sure that they know what it means. 'Cause I don't think they do, otherwise Father God Putin would not be at a near 80% approval rating.
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Fascist is such a loosely slung around word that when a real one like Putin comes along, the connections aren't made.
 
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#2,956
#2,956
Russia has increased its air activity over the Pacific Ocean since the start of the Ukraine crisis, including flights near the California coast and the U.S. Pacific island of Guam, the head of U.S. air forces in the Pacific said.

Gen. Herbert "Hawk" Carlisle said Monday the number of long-range Russian patrols around the Japanese islands and Korea had also increased "drastically" and there had been "a lot more ship activity as well."

US sees Ukraine link in Russian flights near California, Guam

Cute..
 
#2,957
#2,957
Yeah, and the Russian govt. pulled the "dumb Americans" card on us afterwards, claiming that we are ridiculous for thinking this increased activity has anything to do with the crisis in Ukraine.
 
#2,960
#2,960
Word that fighting has resumed in Slavyansk again. Gunfire and explosions on outskirts of city. No word on any push to the center yet though.
 
#2,961
#2,961
Am I the only one that's bothered by the media outlets when they say the crisis in Ukraine is closer to becoming a CIVIL war? I'm sorry but lets fact check here. Who invaded the country of Ukraine pretending NOT to be russians?
 
#2,962
#2,962
Interesting development: Putin is now calling for a postponement of the May 11 referendum that was supposedly going to be held in the "breakaway" provinces.

I don't really know what to make of this. Until further information comes out regarding this decision (assuming it ever does), I'm going to assume that it's a simple attempt to "distance" Moscow from the separatist movement so as to look like Moscow has no involvement. Meanwhile, the referendum will proceed and achieve Putin's aims, all while he gets to claim to the rest of the world that he had no involvement.
 
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#2,963
#2,963
coug said:
Am I the only one that's bothered by the media outlets when they say the crisis in Ukraine is closer to becoming a CIVIL war? I'm sorry but lets fact check here. Who invaded the country of Ukraine pretending NOT to be russians?
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Technically, you're right. At the moment, though, I suppose I would describe it as an insurgency that is being fueled by some Ukrainians and some outside factions alike.
 
#2,964
#2,964
volprof said:
Interesting development: Putin is now calling for a postponement of the May 11 referendum that was supposedly going to be held in the "breakaway" provinces.

I don't really know what to make of this. Until further information comes out regarding this decision (assuming it ever does), I'm going to assume that it's a simple attempt to "distance" Moscow from the separatist movement so as to look like Moscow has no involvement. Meanwhile, the referendum will proceed and achieve Putin's aims, all while he gets to claim to the rest of the world that he had no involvement.
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I don't think Russia cares at this point what the world thinks. Putin is just trolling. I know I keep being the Debbie downer, but I think this going to get out of control and someone will use this distraction to attack the west.
 
#2,966
#2,966
None of this adds up. I'm thinking he knows that things have now gone too far for reconciliation, and he's just coming in around the 11th hour (or maybe the 10th) in order to play "good guy." I'm thinking it's a sham, but this crisis keeps constantly baffling me, so who the hell knows.
 
#2,967
#2,967
Odd indeed. Unless he has plans to make sure this election never even happens on the 25th. This way at least he is on record favoring it and looking cooperative.

I know they were hoping for mass deaths in the east. They were hoping for a more popular uprising with more joining. At this point it is Ukraine military and a small amount of terrorists. Nothing completely wide scale to the level needed for a general internal war. It's one reason they poked and prodded in Odessa. And I am sure these sort of events will likely increase as well.

What I am afraid of is a 9/11 type event on May 9th. This is not over and Putin needs something staged - a staged Right Sektor bombing - to send this over the top. The fact Putin is playing Good Cop all of a sudden just wreaks of scheming.

Putin urged Kiev authorities to stop punitive operations in the South-East of Ukraine as they were only aggravating the situation. “Russia calls for an immediate halt to all military and punitive operations in the South-East of Ukraine,” Putin said.
He noted that “this method of settling the internal political conflict is not a reliable way of resolving all political disputes”. “On the contrary, they deepen the divisions,” he added.
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Is this a "do as I say, not as I do" statement? Because this is NOT what he has done in the Caucasus.
 
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#2,968
#2,968
Putin also said something about withdrawing troops, and there's no evidence of that yet.

We'll see. Actions speak louder than words.
 
#2,969
#2,969
The May 11th referendum was never going to be met so Putin is saving some face. What I think we may see is the election goes ahead, a pro-Western leader is voted in, and than Putin comes flying in and calls the results illegitimate due to Eastern voters being disenfranchised.
 
#2,970
#2,970
CSpindizzy said:
Odd indeed. Unless he has plans to make sure this election never even happens on the 25th. This way at least he is on record favoring it and looking cooperative.

I know they were hoping for mass deaths in the east. They were hoping for a more popular uprising with more joining. At this point it is Ukraine military and a small amount of terrorists. Nothing completely wide scale to the level needed for a general internal war. It's one reason they poked and prodded in Odessa. And I am sure these sort of events will likely increase as well.

What I am afraid of is a 9/11 type event on May 9th. This is not over and Putin needs something staged - a staged Right Sektor bombing - to send this over the top. The fact Putin is playing Good Cop all of a sudden just wreaks of scheming.



Is this a "do as I say, not as I do" statement? Because this is NOT what he has done in the Caucasus.
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Regarding your pre-Putin quote section, I think Ukraine has been incredibly poised during this crisis, despite the criticisms from the rebels and from Moscow. I'm sure mistakes have been made (that's inevitable), but as far as I can tell, they have been very considerate of civilian lives. I think that is one reason why the ATO has been so slow unfolding.

As far as an attack, on the 9th, I have no doubt there will be fighting. I don't think I would go as far as to say that Putin has something up his sleeve in terms of a false flag that day, but you could be right. I do think the Easter incident was a false flag.

And regarding the Caucasus, you know as well as I that national self-determination only applies to ethnic Russians. Or, more specifically, to ethnic Russians who think they should be Russian citizens.
 
#2,971
#2,971
A good example of spin and propaganda:

ITAR-TASS: World - Latvian European Parliament deputy suggests Right Sector be deemed terrorists

A story of a politician from a pro-Western nation calling out the Ukrainian nationalists as terrorists. The spin here is that even a western leaning politician from a neighbor of Russia is calling out Kyiv to act against a group 'on their side'. Problem is this particular person is pro-Russia and a devout Communist. But her ideology will not be mentioned - only where she is from.
 
#2,972
#2,972
CSpindizzy said:
A good example of spin and propaganda:

ITAR-TASS: World - Latvian European Parliament deputy suggests Right Sector be deemed terrorists

A story of a politician from a pro-Western nation calling out the Ukrainian nationalists as terrorists. The spin here is that even a western leaning politician from a neighbor of Russia is calling out Kyiv to act against a group 'on their side'. Problem is this particular person is pro-Russia and a devout Communist. But her ideology will not be mentioned - only where she is from.
Click to expand...

Russian media is the master of spin. Whenever I go on to RT, I think I'm in some sort of alternate Earth reality wherein everyone is near brain dead, but kept on some sort of mental feeding tube by a vast, omnipotent alien "intelligence," i.e. the Kremlin. I just can't even take anything they say seriously. I know we have our own media problems with the govt. and corporations, but Russian media makes those concerns look trivial.

Speaking of RT, it's showing the Victory Day parade live Friday morning at 2 AM (10 AM Moscow time). It's supposed to be the biggest since the Cold War (coincidence?). I think I'll tune in. I always enjoy the pageantry. I'm a little concerned though. I've watched RT's presentation of last year's Victory Day, and it was basically an American bashing hour in which a Russian military parade just happened to break out. I don't know that there's ever been a people with more American penis envy. At one point they were basically scoffing at the fact that America lost only "400,000" people during the war. Not to mention the "fact" that the world would be speaking German if not for the Soviets, or, more specifically, the Russians. And if that's what it was like last year, I can't imagine what it will be like this year.
 
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#2,973
#2,973
And this day just keeps getting more bizarre. Putin now announcing that he will pull back troops from the border. Although they will stay relatively close by (whatever that means) to continue conducting drills and exercises.
 
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