Ukraine Protests

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#2,977
#2,977
Burhead said:
The May 11th referendum was never going to be met so Putin is saving some face. What I think we may see is the election goes ahead, a pro-Western leader is voted in, and than Putin comes flying in and calls the results illegitimate due to Eastern voters being disenfranchised.
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The logistics of holding an election with armed gangs in government buildings and supposed ATO in progress is unclear to me. Certainly for May 11 but even for May 25.

Is it possible to have an open election in the east? If not, it will be dismissed as illegitimate.
 
#2,982
#2,982
volprof said:
Interesting development: Putin is now calling for a postponement of the May 11 referendum that was supposedly going to be held in the "breakaway" provinces.

I don't really know what to make of this. Until further information comes out regarding this decision (assuming it ever does), I'm going to assume that it's a simple attempt to "distance" Moscow from the separatist movement so as to look like Moscow has no involvement. Meanwhile, the referendum will proceed and achieve Putin's aims, all while he gets to claim to the rest of the world that he had no involvement.
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I think it's a little too late for that.
 
#2,983
#2,983
What's the latest word on Russia's economy after all these sanctions? Is he feeling any pressure from his comrades to stop the nonsense?
 
#2,984
#2,984
volprof said:
Russian media is the master of spin. Whenever I go on to RT, I think I'm in some sort of alternate Earth reality wherein everyone is near brain dead, but kept on some sort of mental feeding tube by a vast, omnipotent alien "intelligence," i.e. the Kremlin. I just can't even take anything they say seriously. I know we have our own media problems with the govt. and corporations, but Russian media makes those concerns look trivial.

Speaking of RT, it's showing the Victory Day parade live Friday morning at 2 AM (10 AM Moscow time). It's supposed to be the biggest since the Cold War (coincidence?). I think I'll tune in. I always enjoy the pageantry. I'm a little concerned though. I've watched RT's presentation of last year's Victory Day, and it was basically an American bashing hour in which a Russian military parade just happened to break out. I don't know that there's ever been a people with more American penis envy. At one point they were basically scoffing at the fact that America lost only "400,000" people during the war. Not to mention the "fact" that the world would be speaking German if not for the Soviets, or, more specifically, the Russians. And if that's what it was like last year, I can't imagine what it will be like this year.
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The Russians have massive inferiority complexes. It's America this America that 24/7 365. They conveniently forget the fact that they were allies with Nazi Germany before Hitler turned his back on them or that they plunged eastern europe into communism post WW2.
 
#2,985
#2,985
vol4eva said:
The Russians have massive inferiority complexes. It's America this America that 24/7 365. They conveniently forget the fact that they were allies with Nazi Germany before Hitler turned his back on them or that they plunged eastern europe into communism post WW2.
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They conveniently forget a lot of things it seems to me. And I know with 100% certainty that very few of them know what the hell fascism actually is.
 
#2,986
#2,986
volprof said:
They conveniently forget a lot of things it seems to me. And I know with 100% certainty that very few of them know what the hell fascism actually is.
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Conveniently they don't seem to like people mentioning the NKVD Katyn massacres.
 
#2,987
#2,987
coug said:
What's the latest word on Russia's economy after all these sanctions? Is he feeling any pressure from his comrades to stop the nonsense?
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Meant to answer your question earlier but got caught in something else.

Yes, the sanctions seem to be having some effect. Russia's economy had a very poor first quarter. Their own interior minister or finance minister (whoever) admitted that something like 60 billion has left the country. Their market is on edge, although it had a good day today with Putin's nebulous turn of face. The IMF has stated that Russia is already in the early stages of a recession. Just how much the sanctions have to do with this is not completely clear, but I think they're playing some role.
 
#2,991
#2,991
Burhead said:
Great (not sure that is a good word to use) documentary. Little hard to follow sometimes due to no English translations but the true nature of it is understood.
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Most people fail to realize (not being taught this in schools is part of the issue) the amount of people killed by this regime. There is a lot of bitterness instilled in the people of the Baltics and Ukraine. It will probably dilute with each generation but this is a good feel for why there are issues now.

There is a movie about the Crimean Tatars as well. One reason they feel screwed in the whole separation and going back to Russia. Their problem was not being back to full strength as far as a population capable of standing up to Putin and his thugs. This is what Putin hopes for with each group he goes against - issues still lingering from decades ago making his opposition still too weak to react.
 
#2,993
#2,993
Russia claiming Ukraine has moved 15,000 troops to the border in a provocative move, while Russia has moved its forces back to their regular Western District bases. NATO currently denies that any action to withdraw Russian troops has occurred. Meanwhile, having another hissy fit, channel RT is waxing indignant that no one in the West believes that Russian troops have been withdrawn.

Also, Donetsk and Luhansk regions are going to continue with their sham democratic election. This begs the question of whether or not Putin has lost control of these people or if his posturing is part of the plan. I'd say it's probably a little bit of both.

On a related note, I can't verify, but apparently there is a phone conversation recording circulating around the Internet that is supposedly between a leader of the Donetsk People's Republic and a Russian ultranationalist leader. The Russian politician is giving him advice about the election and claims that the actual results don't matter just as long as you claim that it went in the direction of secession to Russia. TIFWIW.
 
#2,994
#2,994
I've said since the beginning that Putin was opening Pandora's box. Considering all of the ethnic minorities he has in Russia, backing a group's drive for autonomy, independence, etc. was a risky move on his part.

Putin knows that with Ukrainian government troops scattered all around the east it becomes more difficult to pull off sham elections - Crimea could be cut off and only specific election monitoring could take place. They do not have the east secured so 'sham-wow' is harder to pull off.
 
#2,995
#2,995
CNN just played part of the phone conversation I alluded to in my previous post. I tend to have more difficulty accepting the legitimacy of phone recordings though. There's no doubt in my mind that such networking is going on between the rebels and the Russian govt. (or at least members of the Russian govt.), but I'm not necessarily going to take this recording as damning proof.
 
#2,996
#2,996
I realize these things are planned out in advance and typically countries give each other prior notice, but I think Putin is setting the tone for war with the west. News from The Associated Press

I don't know if he's gone off his rocker or the guy is the second coming of Hitler. His actions have been ominous.
 
#2,997
#2,997
davethevol said:
I realize these things are planned out in advance and typically countries give each other prior notice, but I think Putin is setting the tone for war with the west. News from The Associated Press

I don't know if he's gone off his rocker or the guy is the second coming of Hitler. His actions have been ominous.
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Strangely enough, November was when Yanukovich made his moves which set off the Maidan protests as well. Not sure I'd be keying in on the November date if I were Putin. Seems quite a bit of items were set in motion around the same time....
 
#2,998
#2,998
CSpindizzy said:
Strangely enough, November was when Yanukovich made his moves which set off the Maidan protests as well. Not sure I'd be keying in on the November date if I were Putin. Seems quite a bit of items were set in motion around the same time....
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And all of which were most likely planned years in advance. If be willing to wager it has been in the works close to a decade.
 
#3,000
#3,000
Velo Vol said:
Probably a good thing my ancestors emigrated by the time of the Russian Revolution or I might not be here.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I have a hard time seeing the world stand by and do nothing if a nation attempted a Holodomor on an ethnic group today.
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You forget about Rwanda?
 
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