Ukraine Protests

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#2,876
#2,876
Ukraine Policemen Stand By as Pro-Russian Separatists Seize Control - TIME

Over the past two weeks, pro-Russian separatists have used this tactic to capture dozens of government buildings in eastern Ukraine, and if local security forces showed some resistance initially, they have now stopped putting up any kind of fight. Their reasoning is simple: they lose either way. If Russia makes good on its threats to invade eastern Ukraine, the police there could face a war tribunal for using force against civilians. If Russia doesn’t invade, the Kiev authorities could still turn them into scapegoats. The last time the police got orders to fire on civilians in Ukraine, during the revolution in February, a dozen officers wound up facing charges for mass murder.


“We know the score,” Artyukh tells TIME outside the captured TV station. “If the orders come down to resist these people, it would be impossible to comply,” he says. “It would be a bloodbath, and no one wants to take that on his conscience.”
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#2,879
#2,879
Burhead said:
Separatists in Mariupol think they are next under the gun.
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#2,880
#2,880
@olgatokariuk

In this tweet, #Russia Duma MP suggests separatists to burn Ukrainian policemen barricaded inside building in Lugansk pic.twitter.com/3CPCZ3lzR3
 
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#2,882
#2,882
Burhead said:
Separatists in Mariupol think they are next under the gun.
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A missionary friend of mine said the separatists are playing the Soviet national anthem as their rallying cry. Speaks volumes. Since the beginning of this unrest these "separatists" have been displaying the hammer and sickle flags...Red Army banners, Soviet flag, etc.
 
#2,883
#2,883
CSpindizzy said:
A missionary friend of mine said the separatists are playing the Soviet national anthem as their rallying cry. Speaks volumes. Since the beginning of this unrest these "separatists" have been displaying the hammer and sickle flags...Red Army banners, Soviet flag, etc.
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A Ukrainian Twitter page I follow brought up a good point I hadn't considered. They speculated the reason the ATO had been constantly delayed and such was because Kiev was transferring in more pro-Western personnel and now that's finished we are seeing a determined push by government forces.
 
#2,884
#2,884
CSpindizzy said:
A missionary friend of mine said the separatists are playing the Soviet national anthem as their rallying cry. Speaks volumes. Since the beginning of this unrest these "separatists" have been displaying the hammer and sickle flags...Red Army banners, Soviet flag, etc.
Click to expand...

Whenever I hear (or see the term) that national anthem, I always think of the scene from "Red Dawn," when the local Soviet government executes Americans as Charlie Sheen's character looks on from a distance. The Soviet anthem is playing over a loudspeaker, and the Americans break into "The Star Spangled Banner."

Makes me just want to yell "Wolverines" every time.

I know, cool story, bro.
 
#2,885
#2,885
Operations underway in Konstantinovka and Mariupol. Word that Kiev may renew its push towards the center of Slavyansk in the coming days as well.

Russia's response will be interesting. I think they're going to most likely wait to see what goes down with the May 11 Donestk referendum. If events don't go there way in that vote and immediately afterwards, I think they may decide to act. There's no doubt in my mind that Donestk and Luhansk are gone. Just a question of how.
 
#2,886
#2,886
Watching RT live coverage of the crisis. RT makes Fox and MsNBC look like legitimate news organizations.
 
#2,887
#2,887
volprof said:
Operations underway in Konstantinovka and Mariupol. Word that Kiev may renew its push towards the center of Slavyansk in the coming days as well.

Russia's response will be interesting. I think they're going to most likely wait to see what goes down with the May 11 Donestk referendum. If events don't go there way in that vote and immediately afterwards, I think they may decide to act. There's no doubt in my mind that Donestk and Luhansk are gone. Just a question of how.
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Keep an eye on any date on or after May 9th. The 9th is Victory Day and I'm not sure the Kremlin would want to take away from it.
 
#2,889
#2,889
Burhead said:
Keep an eye on any date on or after May 9th. The 9th is Victory Day and I'm not sure the Kremlin would want to take away from it.
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That's a good point. And if they're going to wait till then, then no reason to wait till after the referendum as well.

Worst case scenario (and a very possible one):

The referendum (of course) goes in the favor of secession to Russia. Kiev moves in to prevent secession. Russia then moves in.
 
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#2,890
#2,890
volprof said:
That's a good point. And if they're going to wait till then, then no reason to wait till after the referendum as well.

Worst case scenario (and a very possible one):

The referendum (of course) goes in the favor of secession to Russia. Kiev moves in to prevent secession. Russia then moves in.
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You're exactly right and I have a feeling that's what's going to happen.
 
#2,891
#2,891
Sorry for posting so much, but RT is currently airing a kind of "Voices of the Protest" program, which is attempting to portray the pro-Russian movement as some sort of grassroots initiative being persecuted by the big bad Kievan Jew Nazi or something. One of the "voices" talked about the horrors of living in a country (Ukraine) that denies freedom of speech. Good luck getting that in Russia, bro.
 
#2,892
#2,892
Burhead said:
A Ukrainian Twitter page I follow brought up a good point I hadn't considered. They speculated the reason the ATO had been constantly delayed and such was because Kiev was transferring in more pro-Western personnel and now that's finished we are seeing a determined push by government forces.
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The link I posted last page says they are also undergoing some housecleaning

The only response, Smeshko suggests, is to conduct a purge of the officer corps in every branch of Ukraine’s security services, and the Kiev government seems to be taking that advice.

Interim President Oleksandr Turchinov announced on April 26 a massive shake-up in just about every agency with uniformed personnel in Ukraine. “Without a doubt, there will be a serious reform of the security structures, including the general prosecutor’s office,” he said. “These must become the agencies of a democratic country, ones that are essentially unable to carry out criminal orders.”
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#2,893
#2,893
Burhead said:
A Ukrainian Twitter page I follow brought up a good point I hadn't considered. They speculated the reason the ATO had been constantly delayed and such was because Kiev was transferring in more pro-Western personnel and now that's finished we are seeing a determined push by government forces.
Click to expand...

A friend of ours with connections to the leading party to win the election said the same thing about two weeks ago. He said they've worried about infiltrators and traitors for a while now. They've caught many soldiers sitting back calling everything in by cell to the terrorists. They finally decided to pull back and weed out. The conscription is basically a reboot as well. My understanding from him is that they've brought 'experts' in on profiling and background checks - he believes from British and US intel. Top down assessment on all officers and then going down from there. The leaks are now down to a trickle he said. Still some out there. And a new issue they've had to deal with is reliable leaders now being blackmailed. From the stories I've heard you cannot tell me this was a reactive process from Russia. This has been planned for YEARS by Moscow. Logistically, there is no way they could get this deep, this widespread this fast.

I was told before the actions over the last few days there was a chance I would be going to Kyiv with a few others from our company to help with the elections. Our CEO was told by an official at State that the expectation in Kyiv is that they may not make it to the election.
 
#2,895
#2,895
CSpindizzy said:
A friend of ours with connections to the leading party to win the election said the same thing about two weeks ago. He said they've worried about infiltrators and traitors for a while now. They've caught many soldiers sitting back calling everything in by cell to the terrorists. They finally decided to pull back and weed out. The conscription is basically a reboot as well. My understanding from him is that they've brought 'experts' in on profiling and background checks - he believes from British and US intel. Top down assessment on all officers and then going down from there. The leaks are now down to a trickle he said. Still some out there. And a new issue they've had to deal with is reliable leaders now being blackmailed. From the stories I've heard you cannot tell me this was a reactive process from Russia. This has been planned for YEARS by Moscow. Logistically, there is no way they could get this deep, this widespread this fast.

I was told before the actions over the last few days there was a chance I would be going to Kyiv with a few others from our company to help with the elections. Our CEO was told by an official at State that the expectation in Kyiv is that they may not make it to the election.
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I've never had much faith they would make it to the Presidential elections.
 
#2,897
#2,897
CSpindizzy said:
A friend of ours with connections to the leading party to win the election said the same thing about two weeks ago. He said they've worried about infiltrators and traitors for a while now. They've caught many soldiers sitting back calling everything in by cell to the terrorists. They finally decided to pull back and weed out. The conscription is basically a reboot as well. My understanding from him is that they've brought 'experts' in on profiling and background checks - he believes from British and US intel. Top down assessment on all officers and then going down from there. The leaks are now down to a trickle he said. Still some out there. And a new issue they've had to deal with is reliable leaders now being blackmailed. From the stories I've heard you cannot tell me this was a reactive process from Russia. This has been planned for YEARS by Moscow. Logistically, there is no way they could get this deep, this widespread this fast.

I was told before the actions over the last few days there was a chance I would be going to Kyiv with a few others from our company to help with the elections. Our CEO was told by an official at State that the expectation in Kyiv is that they may not make it to the election.
Click to expand...

You might be right about this being a long-term plan from Moscow. Different discourses ranging from pan-Slavism to Neo-Eurasianism have been fomenting in Russia since the 90s. You seem pretty dang knowledgeable about this situation, so you may already know, but I reference you to these wikipedia pages:

Eurasianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aleksandr Dugin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Igor Panarin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The latter link is for Igor Panarin, a crackpot political scientist who has actually gained some favor at times with the Russian establishment. Anyhow, I read an article about him once, where the person interviewing him actually visited his office in Moscow. The journalist said that he had a huge map of Alaska on the wall. When asked about it, Panarin simply smirked. The implication, as the journalist suggested, was that he thought Alaska should return to Russia. Good luck with that, bud.
 
#2,900
#2,900
If this has been planned out for years as this seems, then Russia has more tricks up its sleaves.
 
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